Abortion and coat hanger mailing campaign

[SallyMargie]

You’ve heard it before because it’s the truth. 10 million children under the age of five alone die of starvation and preventable/treatable illness every year. That is not “phony baloney”; that is the reality of the world we live in. We don’t live in a world where the good forces will join hands and overthrow dictatorships to feed the global population; that is fantasy. We live in a world where millions of women are faced with the choice to terminate a pregnancy or condemn a child to a short life of suffering and, amongst all of the sabre-rattling of the pro-life movement, very few are willing to take responsibility for the needs of those who would otherwise be terminated.

Putting your obvious political views aside, take a deep breath.

Now–think about this. Think clearly. What you’ve been told is that it’s better to kill someone in case they have a rough life. Huh?? Tell that to all the people who have lived rough lives, but struggled on. They are the true heroes of the world!

You missed my point. There are governments all over the place which will let their people starve while they thrive. Why aren’t you fighting them?? BTW, we’re likely on the same path under our current administration.

You have a very strange belief about “condemning a child to a short life of suffering” while it appears you don’t seem to want to do anything about it and your only answer is to kill the child? Do you work for Planned Parenthood or something?? Obviously, someone makes money off the “oh so compassionate” “choice” to murder an inncocent baby. Why not work instead to rid governments of tyrants and let these little ones live? Why not support those missions (often Catholic) who work to make better lives for these people? Can you only see death as the answer?? Wow–where have you been??

Again, are you Catholic, and do you know the Church’s (God’s) teaching on abortion? Seems to me he said somewhere “thou shall not kill.”

I respectfully suggest you check out the resources I have cited, because it seems obvious there is pertinent info re abortion you have yet to hear about.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

So you are a firm beleiver in the “better dead than underfed” theory?

I believe that abortion is justifiable if the parents don’t have the economic means to provide for a child’s basic necessities and if there is no guarantee that a suitable adoptive parent will be found.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

What you’ve been told is that it’s better to kill someone in case they have a rough life.

That is not what I have been told and “a rough life” doesn’t even begin to describe what tens of millions of children go through every year.

There are governments all over the place which will let their people starve while they thrive. Why aren’t you fighting them??..

On the contrary; I do but my expectations are realistic. The pro-life movement will NEVER convince anyone to declare war or inspire a coup for the sole purpose of feeding the people of a foreign nation.

You have a very strange belief about “condemning a child to a short life of suffering” while it appears you don’t seem to want to do anything about it and your only answer is to kill the child?

That isn’t true at all. My focus is on saving those who already exist.

Why not support those missions (often Catholic) who work to make better lives for these people?

Most charities do next to nothing to promote self-reliance and that includes Catholic charities. I do support charities such as Heifer International.

Can you only see death as the answer??

I see it as an option and a moral duty in certain circumstances. Will you adopt one of these children?

 

[rlg94086]

"estesbob:

So you are a firm beleiver in the “better dead than underfed” theory?

I believe that abortion is justifiable if the parents don’t have the economic means to provide for a child’s basic necessities and if there is no guarantee that a suitable adoptive parent will be found.

IOW…yes. That is sad. I know of people who are depressed who would rather be dead, but to kill someone because they may have to be raised in an economically disadvantaged system is pure evil.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

IOW…yes. That is sad. I know of people who are depressed who would rather be dead, but to kill someone because they may have to be raised in an economically disadvantaged system is pure evil.

We’re not just talking about economically disadvantaged systems here. We’re talking about systems in which millions of children die of starvation. We’re talking about people who can’t provide anything for their children; even food. There’s a BIG difference between “economically disadvantaged” and destitute to the point of starvation. I’ll ask the same of you; will you adopt one of these children?

 

[rlg94086]

We’re not just talking about economically disadvantaged systems here. We’re talking about systems in which millions of children die of starvation. We’re talking about people who can’t provide anything for their children; even food. There’s a BIG difference between “economically disadvantaged” and destitute to the point of starvation. I’ll ask the same of you; will you adopt one of these children?

Yes, but that is a fallacious argument on your part. Regardless of how you spin it, you are in favor of killing someone rather than giving them a chance at life. You are a monster.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Yes, but that is a fallacious argument on your part.

Fallacious? Are you denying that 20 million children under the age of 5 suffer from malnutrition and 10 million children under the age of 5 die of starvation and preventable/treatable illness every year?

Regardless of how you spin it, you are in favor of killing someone rather than giving them a chance at life. You are a monster.

A chance at life? What life? Living a few years only to die of starvation and disease? If you want to lecture me about giving someone a chance at life then you should be willing to adopt one of these children. Are you?

 

[estesbob]

I believe that abortion is justifiable if the parents don’t have the economic means to provide for a child’s basic necessities and if there is no guarantee that a suitable adoptive parent will be found.

And at what age does the parents right to teminate a child they feel they can not support end?

 

[rlg94086]

Fallacious? Are you denying that 20 million children under the age of 5 suffer from malnutrition and 10 million children under the age of 5 die of starvation and preventable/treatable illness every year?

So, we should kill them? That is monstrous.

EmperorNapoleon:

A chance at life? What life? Living a few years only to die of starvation and disease? If you want to lecture me about giving someone a chance at life then you should be willing to adopt one of these children. Are you?

I already answered “yes.” My wife and I already discussed it. And, yes, a chance at life. I won’t stand by and allow murderous, genocidal maniacs like yourself to execute others out of false compassion. It is evil, and it needs to be stopped.

The real answer is a return to morality when it comes to sexuality, not murdering children.

 

[SallyMargie]

That is not what I have been told and “a rough life” doesn’t even begin to describe what tens of millions of children go through every year.

On the contrary; I do but my expectations are realistic. The pro-life movement will NEVER convince anyone to declare war or inspire a coup for the sole purpose of feeding the people of a foreign nation.

That isn’t true at all. My focus is on saving those who already exist.

Most charities do next to nothing to promote self-reliance and that includes Catholic charities. I do support charities such as Heifer International.

I see it as an option and a moral duty in certain circumstances. Will you adopt one of these children?

FYI, I have an adopted child, and I also donate to causes which support human beings–not destroy them.

I won’t even argue your points as it seems you are a very unhappy person who won’t even consider the other side. However, should you decide to get past your ego, please consider the sources I have cited. I don’t know what it was that caused your anger and defensiveness, and your unwillingness to see the other side of the argument, but I pray you will get past it some time.

I have to wonder why you’re posting on a Catholic forum, when you certainly must know what God teaches. It seems only to argue an absolutely fruitless “argument” that most of us rejected from the getgo.

Interesting how the so-called “prochoice” folks never consider that they, themselves could have been killed by abortion. They somehow see themselves as more worthy than others.

There are indeed many charities which promote self-reliance. Why not explore them??

I have to tell you I honestly feel sorry for you. Please know I am praying for you. Take care and God bless.

 

[rlg94086]

FYI, I have an adopted child, and I also donate to causes which support human beings–not destroy them…

His whole “are you willing to adopt a child” line is part of his diatribe. He doesn’t give a rip about the children. We support multiple children in other countries for less money than it would take to adopt and care for one child in this country. He would rather they be killed than have people support or adopt them. Evil incarnate.

 

[SallyMargie]

His whole “are you willing to adopt a child” line is part of his diatribe. He doesn’t give a rip about the children. We support multiple children in other countries for less money than it would take to adopt and care for one child in this country. He would rather they be killed than have people support or adopt them. Evil incarnate.

I feel people who post as such on this forum do so more so for Catholic bashing than for anything else. It’s a type of “shock jock” sort of thing–more for the thrill than anything. We need to pray for such people. It honestly is sad they’re so unhappy and closed to the truth. I have to wonder what it was that caused such unrealistic thinking on his part and others who feel the same. But mostly I go back to Catholic bashing. This is obviously a Catholic forum, so it’s really just “baiting.” Very sad.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

And at what age does the parents right to teminate a child they feel they can not support end?

Birth.

FYI, I have an adopted child, and I also donate to causes which support human beings–not destroy them.

Would you consider adopting more children? After all, a total elimination of illegal abortion alone would result in the births of an additional 20 million children per year.

I won’t even argue your points as it seems you are a very unhappy person who won’t even consider the other side.

I’m not an unhappy person. In terms of considering the other side; I might take it more seriously if there weren’t millions dying of starvation every year. If there weren’t any practical/moral reasons for abortion then I might even consider opposing it. Of course, being referred to as “evil incarnate” and a “genocidal maniac” doesn’t help either.

Interesting how the so-called “prochoice” folks never consider that they, themselves could have been killed by abortion. They somehow see themselves as more worthy than others.

You’re in the business of reading minds?

Why not explore them??

I’ve already chosen one.

 

[estesbob]

Birth.

Birth? Where is the logic in that. What difference whatsoever is there between a one day old child and a child one day from being born?

What absolute selfishness. You want these children killed becuase you fear they will be a burden on society.

Would you consider adopting more children? After all, a total elimination of illegal abortion alone would result in the births of an additional 20 million children per year.

How many have you adopted-or does supporting killing them absolve you of any responsibility for the needy?

I’m not an unhappy person. In terms of considering the other side; I might take it more seriously if there weren’t millions dying of starvation every year. If there weren’t any practical/moral reasons for abortion then I might even consider opposing it. Of course, being referred to as “evil incarnate” and a “genocidal maniac” doesn’t help either.

If hapiness comes from disposing of the most vulnerable among us i’d reather be sad.

You’re in the business of reading minds?

Doesnt nered one to read your mind when you have stated children are better off dead than hungry.

 

[estesbob]

His whole “are you willing to adopt a child” line is part of his diatribe. He doesn’t give a rip about the children. We support multiple children in other countries for less money than it would take to adopt and care for one child in this country. He would rather they be killed than have people support or adopt them. Evil incarnate.

Aboslutely. Its an attempt to change the subject. Most people recognize that there is a vast middle ground between being willing to adopt a child and supporting killing the child.

 

[rlg94086]

I’m not an unhappy person. In terms of considering the other side; I might take it more seriously if there weren’t millions dying of starvation every year. If there weren’t any practical/moral reasons for abortion then I might even consider opposing it. Of course, being referred to as “evil incarnate” and a “genocidal maniac” doesn’t help either.

Oh…gee…I’m sorry. How could I possibly react that way to someone who basically says “there are millions dying of starvation…we should kill them instead?”

If that isn’t a “genocidal maniac” and “evil incarnate,” then I don’t know what is.

You are no different than the monsters of history. You just like to couch it in false compassion.

 

[estesbob]

Oh…gee…I’m sorry. How could I possibly react that way to someone who basically says “there are millions dying of starvation…we should kill them instead?”

If that isn’t a “genocidal maniac” and “evil incarnate,” then I don’t know what is.

You are no different than the monsters of history. You just like to couch it in false compassion.

Actually 100% of all humans die-perhaps it would be better just to kill everyone at birth so they can expereince this before they are aware of what is happening to them?

 

[rlg94086]

Actually 100% of all humans die-perhaps it would be better just to kill everyone at birth so they can expereince this before they are aware of what is happening to them?

There you go…we’ll just call it pre-euthanasia. We’ll kill everyone before they have a chance to suffer at all.

 

[survive]

They are safe, though not without risk, for the mother because the procedure is being performed in the presence of a medical practitioner as opposed to some random person off the street giving you a vile of who knows what or impaling yourself with a wire hanger.

Actually, AMA and other reliable sources estimate that 85%-90% of illegal abortions were done by the exact same abortionaists who continued doing them after they became legal. And there are still no believable tales of wire-hanger abortions. It’s just another wild story.

That isn’t true at all but women have the right to make their own decision on the matter.

Why?

illegal abortions occur in nations which don’t even have enough resources to feed the existing population and this creates a moral dilemma. Is it moral to bring a child into the world knowing that he/she will experience nothing but suffering and will likely die in a few short years?

What moral dilemma? The child entered the world at conception, as do all mammals. That is not an opinion, but one of the most reliably solid facts in the life sciences. There is also no reason to assume anyone will “experience nothing but suffering” and “die in a few short years”. Economies change quickly.
As for the question of adopting an “unwanted” infant, there ar elong lines of already-approved couples begging to adopt all available children. Even millionaires have to jump through a lot of hoops to adopt kids from poor countries, and still many never get the chance to adopt. Every single child in the world is already wanted several times over. How many children have I adopted? That’s like accusing me of refusing to win the lottery jackpot. Send a few starving kids to my door and let me adopt them, and I will. The system is set up to make it impossible to adopt precisely because it is such a birthparents’`market.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Birth? Where is the logic in that. What difference whatsoever is there between a one day old child and a child one day from being born?

Personhood and, under our laws, constitutional protections.

What absolute selfishness. You want these children killed becuase you fear they will be a burden on society.

Completely untrue.

How many have you adopted-or does supporting killing them absolve you of any responsibility for the needy?

Unfortunately, being gay is an automatic disqualifier for adoption under most circumstances. In terms of taking responsibility for the needy; I do.