Abortion Clinics on Edge After Manifesto

[Ani_Ibi]

Traditional Ang:

Do you now understand the 3rd way??

The third way has always been accompanied by the (covert or overt) way of mass rioting and mass murder. India was absolutely no exception.

 

[Trelow]

abcdefg:

This is a war against culture of death.
anyone here thinks we used deadly force to stop Nazis killing Jews is wrong? Should we rely solely on peaceful negotiation?

Legitimate defense by miliitary force requires:

“–the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain.”
check

“–all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective.”
check

“–there must be serious prospects of success.”
Here is where we the conditions are not met as far as taking up martial action against the government.

“–the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver that the evil to be eliminated.”
[check

We cannot pick and chose where to apply Truth. He is never changing. If we were to act now with militant force it would be for the sake of our vanity, not for the love of Truth.**

 

[geezerbob]

For those of you who haven’t read it, here is what Rudolph had to say:

“Abortion is murder. And when the regime in Washington leglized, sanctioned and legitimized this practice, they forfeited their legitimacy and moral authority to govern. At various times in history men and women of good conscience have had to decide when the lawfully constituted authorities have overstepped their moral bounds and forfeited their rights to rule…And, in January of 1973, the government in Washington decided to descend into barbarism by sanctioning the ancient practice of infanticide and by that act consigned 50 million unborn children to their graves. There is no more legitimate reason to my knowledge for renouncing allegiance to and if necessary using force to drag this monstrosity of a government down to the dust where it belongs.”

 

[dumspirospero]

Trust me…I am in the same boat. Abortion is a travesty…I despise abortion and I am staunchly pro-life…I just don’t agree with some peoples beliefs that it is justifiable to blow up abortion clinics and murder more people…If we are going to nip this abortion thing in the bud…we will need legislation outlawing abortion…overturning Roe v. Wade, etc…and anyone caught having an abortion gets an automatic life sentence with no chance for parole.
Traditional Ang:

Dumspirospero:

I believe that Roe v. Wade is the Dred Scott of our age, and as long as our country continues to practice legalized infanticide, we will edge a little closer to the judgement or the civil war which must inevitably come to this nation so long as we continue to trample on the rights of the powerless and the weak.

The God who hears their cry will not allow us to continue this much longer, and then I fear that we shall pay for the crimes of this unjust nation with blood, ours.

Roe v. Wade must be overturne, so that states can outlaw abortions and parents can keep their daughters from getting them through their schools (State of CA - the School can take your daughter for a abortion without even telling you that she;s gone!)

Otherwise, I fear for this country. God is patient and merciful, but he is also just.

Blessings and Peace, Michael

 

[Brad]

Trelow:

Unfortunatly, It’s hard to see wher ethe line is. But obviously bombing people is on the other side.

And yes, we need to mobilize many many many more people.

Please be careful to comprehend and more closely associate so that we are not miscommunicating. Civilians working with Terri’s father to get Terri out of the facility in as peaceful a fashion as possible is not the same as arbitrarily bombing a clinic.

 

[Trelow]

Brad:

Please be careful to comprehend and more closely associate so that we are not miscommunicating. Civilians working with Terri’s father to get Terri out of the facility in as peaceful a fashion as possible is not the same as arbitrarily bombing a clinic.

Thank you for the clarification.

What then? What would be the next recorse after removing her form the home? Where woudl they go? How would they mantain control of the situation? Would there be serious prospects for sucess?

Don’t get me wrong, I think it is a noble idea. But I cannot forsee a circumstance where it would be sucessful. It would be for vanity more than not, and paint the pro-life community in a negative light to those we could win over throught other recourse. Civilization abhors chaos.

 

[sweetchuck]

I think part of the reason pro-deathers feel so threatened is because according to their own philosophical train of thought Rudolph’s manifesto is logically flawless. For years, the utilitarian justification of abortion is that too many people will suffer if one person is born, so, make one suffer for the sake of many. This is Eric Rudolph’s logic. It is completely legitimate if you are a utilitarian, and is a sound and rational response, as pro-deathers may realize.

(In other words: “THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.”)

(Both reasons demonstrate, of course, why Catholics should not be utilitiarians.)

 

[Trelow]

sweetchuck:

I think part of the reason pro-deathers feel so threatened is because according to their own philosophical train of thought Rudolph’s manifesto is logically flawless. For years, the utilitarian justification of abortion is that too many people will suffer if one person is born, so, make one suffer for the sake of many. This is Eric Rudolph’s logic. It is completely legitimate if you are a utilitarian, and is a sound and rational response, as pro-deathers may realize.

(In other words: “THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.”)

(Both reasons demonstrate, of course, why Catholics should not be utilitiarians.)

correct.

 

[abcdefg]

Trelow:

“–there must be serious prospects of success.”
Here is where we the conditions are not met as far as taking up martial action against the government.

our enemy isn’t the goverment but abortionists as long as they feel their lives miserable enough or earnings dropped sharply, they will stop even if laws permit abortion.

Originally Posted by sweetchuck
I think part of the reason pro-deathers feel so threatened is because according to their own philosophical train of thought Rudolph’s manifesto is logically flawless. For years, the utilitarian justification of abortion is that too many people will suffer if one person is born, so, make one suffer for the sake of many. This is Eric Rudolph’s logic. It is completely legitimate if you are a utilitarian, and is a sound and rational response, as pro-deathers may realize.

do you want to use a way that makes pro-deathers feel threatened or comfortable to fight them?

 

[Trelow]

abcdefg:

our enemy isn’t the goverment but abortionists as long as they feel their lives miserable enough or earnings dropped sharply, they will stop even if laws permit abortion.
?

Pray tell who is protecting the abortionists?

 

[abcdefg]

those who go for an abortion

 

[abcdefg]

those who go for an abortion
if no one went for abortion, there would be no abortion

 

[Trelow]

abcdefg:

those who go for an abortion
if no one went for abortion, there would be no abortion

I don’t know if you are tring to be cute or deeply profound but we live in the really-real world.

 

[abcdefg]

Trelow:

I don’t know if you are tring to be cute or deeply profound but we live in the really-real world.

aren’t you deeply profound? have you done more than Rudolph to stop abortion?
please put away these sarcastic ad hominem attacks.

 

[Trelow]

abcdefg:

aren’t you deeply profound? have you done more than Rudolph to stop abortion?
please put away these sarcastic ad hominem attacks.

Whereas you are promting committing evil to stop evil.
Whereas this is prohibited according to the Church.
Whereas the Church is the pilar of Truth.

Therefore your apology is a logicial fallacy…
Therefore an ad hominem attack against you is a logical fallacy.
Therefore you are akin to the bird whom chimes the hour.

:yup:

 

[Trelow]

Trelow:

Pray tell who is protecting the abortionists?

Let me try again.

WHO WILL ARREST YOU OR SHOOT YOU IF YOU RUN AMOK SHOOTINg AND BOMBING PEOPLE?

It isn’t those who go for abortions.

It is the government, shall I draw a picture?

 

[IsaiahStar]

BlindSheep:

If this sort of thing would actually stop abortion, and if it was the only way to do so, it would be justified, but it doesn’t. Making abortion illegal would dramatically reduce the number of abortions. Promoting chastity and adoption would help. Getting graphic abortion photos into the hands of teenage girls could make a very big difference. It was seeing those photos that changed my mind about abortion at age 17. Bombings really don’t help the cause.

I agree. Bombings only worsen the hard work thousands of people are doing to save babies. Before I was pro-life I was disgusted at hearing about people bombing clinics and it only made me more pro abortion. It was seeing the pictures and hearing women’s stories and the logic of the prolife arguments that made the difference. Through God’s grace, that is.

Also, Jesus came to overturn the old laws that said “eye for an eye”. He told us to turn the other cheek. I follow Christ, and not the corrupt laws of our society.

And doesn’t our Church teach us that’s it’s NEVER okay to sin for the good of others (i.e. use birth control for the sanity of the existing family, or induce abortion to prevent a child from dying a horrible death due to a birth defect)? So then why would it be “okay” to bomb a clinic, killing or injuring people, for the lives of the babies? Even if we THINK, with our clouded reasoning, that a small sin is justifiable because of the outcome, SIN IS NEVER justifiable.

Don’t empty the Cross of it’s power. Let God judge. What our nation needs is more prayer and trust.

Nicole

 

[abcdefg]

bombing an abortion clinic isn’t counter-productive. It’ll not made people go for an abortion just because abortion clinic is bombed.
IsaiahStar I doubt what you said. abortion means you hate your own child but according to you, you only hate who bombed the clinic. so what you said is illogical.

Abortion and pro-abortion because of bombing is wrath wrongfully directed. and this is not the case in abortion clinic bombing
I feel no sympathy because abortion clinics are on the edge. I think they should be off the edge

Trelow:

…committing evil to stop evil.

do you think we’re committing evil to stop Nazis?

Trelow:

Therefore your apology is a logicial fallacy…
Therefore an ad hominem attack against you is a logical fallacy.
Therefore you are akin to the bird whom chimes the hour.
:yup:

 

[Trelow]

abcdefg:

bombing an abortion clinic isn’t counter-productive. It’ll not made people go for an abortion just because abortion clinic is bombed.
IsaiahStar I doubt what you said. abortion means you hate your own child but according to you, you only hate who bombed the clinic. so what you said is illogical.

Abortion and pro-abortion because of bombing is wrath wrongfully directed. and this is not the case in abortion clinic bombing
I feel no sympathy because abortion clinics are on the edge. I think they should be off the edge

do you think we’re committing evil to stop Nazis?

Legitimate defense by miliitary force requires:

“–the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain.”
check

“–all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective.”
check

“–there must be serious prospects of success.”
Here is where we the conditions are not met as far as taking up martial action against the government. This condition was met as the others for entrance into World War 2.

“–the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver that the evil to be eliminated.”
check

We cannot pick and chose where to apply Truth. He is never changing. If we were to act now with militant force it would be for the sake of our vanity, not for the love of Truth.

Due to your obstanate nature to repeat the same argument over and over I am through wiht you. You have recived the Truth, what you do with is in now in your hands.

 

[abcdefg]

How many times do I have to tell you the goverment isn’t the enemy?