Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[Darryl1958]

I hope all the people on this board who, day after day, use inflammatory rhetoric to describe abortion and abortionists recognize that this man’s blood is on your hands.

that is an interesting way to criticize others use of inflammatory language.:tiphat:

In a sense, by placing the discussion of the abortion under the discussion of the commandment not to murder in the current Catholic Catechism, by the same logic, all Catholics that agree publicly with the catechism have the same blood on their hands, as the catechism itself is rather inflammatory in doing so.

Be that as it may, we can only wonder what kind of dampening effect this will have on other doctor’s who may decide that that kind of doctoring is just not worth it.
And one therefore wonders how true to word at Notre Dame Obama will be able to be, if the conscience clause he now advocates only exacerbates the resulting problem of a shortage of abortionists?

Killing abortion doctors is a form or terrorism. It is evil.

…and it works…

It changes a people’s willingness to engage in certain behavior, like Spaniards fighting in Iraq,for instance, or the western press printing cartoons about Mohammed. This may be the net effect of this kind of terrorism too.

Which brings me to my point in a rather round about way.By criminalizing and demonizing inflammatory language, which is in effect what has been happening, aren’t we in effect driving the most radical amongst us outside of the big tent, driving them away from our moderating influence into ever more radical behavior?

and if this is the case, then wouldn’t we have blood o our hands too for taking the option of free speech, however inflammatory, away from them?

Never be embarrassed about fanatics voicing our truths. This is the best of all possible worlds when they are allowed to do so.

 

[rlg94086]

I guess my point is it would have been greatly desired for this person to see the error of his ways and repent and embrace the pro-life cause, rather than the wasteful end his life met. The missed opportunities are great cause for sadness, as is pondering what seems the probable outcome of his standing before God.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

So, help me out here. You don’t believe that Our Lord feels any sorrow over the death of Dr. Tiller?

I do not feel remorse for his passing. It is that simple. Why is that so hard to get?

Your question has no meaning for me or for anyone else and how we should feel. I am sure that Our Lord feels great sorrow at the disabled, viable children who were murdered, feels great sorrow for the actions of Dr. Tiller, feels great sorrow that a person motivated by irrational hate committed murder against Dr. Tiller, and feels great sorrow for the pain of his family. All of those things are worthy of sorrow for us as well.

I am not crying because Dr. Tiller is gone. But I am saddened that such a tragedy occurred. And you would have us believe that is a sin? That is un-Christian? This is not correct. Our emotions are not sinful. Our will to forgive and extend mercy is what sets us apart. Jesus says the same to St. Faustina. The human heart is weak.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

His wife and adult children were certainly complicit by benefiting from his line of business. I wouldn’t accept a gift that was bought from an abortion, would you?

Let’s extrapolate that view: What about a slave-holder’s family, or a society that gains from the subjugation of a sister state? The US grabbed about a third of Mexico and kept it.

If you look at it (not to hijack this thread) that statement is a major defense of affirmative action. Who gained and continues to enjoy the fruits from the history of discrimination in this country? The effects of discrimination did not end when the practice ended. Did anyone benefit from ill-gotten money?

This question of a moralist enjoying the fruits of evil acts was a subject of at least one episode of “The Sopranos” and Shaw’s play “Major Barbara”. It is an interesting conundrum.

 

[Sonic]

Tiller’s murder is a shame. Tiller was responsible for the death of hundreds of children. No doubt, he is answering for all his sins. Unfortunately, his murder robbed him of the chance of realizing how wrong he was and asking for forgiveness before he died. This is what makes this such a tragedy. Bad people are sometimes allowed to live, because God gives everyone a chance to repent and change. I only wish he had before his demise.

Now, the soul of the person who murdered Tiller is in jeopardy. The Enemy’s hand is at work in all this. Human’s are such fools to fall for the devil’s handiwork.

One cannot fight death with death. The only remedy to death is Life.

I will be interested in finding out the suspect’s motivations for killing Tiller before assuming the worst concerning it’s impact on the Pro-life movement.

Please everyone… say the Saint Michael prayer before you go to bed tonight.

 

[Jennifer123]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, and since you reference such a partisan loudmouth as Mr. O’Reilly, I automatically doubt its truth, but, if a 10 year-old girl was made pregnant by sexual abuse/rape, then I think abortion would be much more acceptable than forcing such the child to bear a child herself.

There is more at risk than the “horror” of bringing a baby into the world. You obviously do not know the risks and complications of the abortive procedure - and honestly, why would you? We are canstantly lied and manipulated by the MSM about the issue. Unfortunately you are just one of many.

 

[rlg94086]

I do not feel remorse for his passing. It is that simple. Why is that so hard to get?

Your question has no meaning for me or for anyone else and how we should feel. I am sure that Our Lord feels great sorrow at the disabled, viable children who were murdered, feels great sorrow for the actions of Dr. Tiller, feels great sorrow that a person motivated by irrational hate committed murder against Dr. Tiller, and feels great sorrow for the pain of his family. All of those things are worthy of sorrow for us as well.

I am not crying because Dr. Tiller is gone. But I am saddened that such a tragedy occurred. And you would have us believe that is a sin? That is un-Christian? This is not correct. Our emotions are not sinful. Our will to forgive and extend mercy is what sets us apart. Jesus says the same to St. Faustina. The human heart is weak.

I haven’t accused you of being sinful due to lack of sorrow over Dr. Tiller’s murder. I’m surprised my question has no meaning for you though. Our Lord said…

44
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same? 48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.

If we are to “be perfect” like our heavenly Father, I think the question about whether Our Lord feels sorrow over Dr. Tiller’s murder would actually mean something to a Christian. Sorry to have assumed too much. You are right - the human heart is weak. However, I think we are supposed to pray to Our Lord to give us the ability to have the same love and compassion for our enemies as we do our other neighbors.

It is not easy. I’m really bad at it…but I hope to someday get there.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

What do you think his motivation was? After years of harassment, threats, public demonization, and after being shot in both arms in 1993, he continued to practice medicine and perform this legal service to his patients, women in need. I think he thought he was doing the right thing, and I think he deserves some respect if not admiration for what he did. I am sure he did not think that a fetus in utero is a child, but rather a fetus in utero. Many reasonable and otherwise good people think that; such is the nature of the issue in our time.

This type of thinking is wrong. Let’s be clear, it was wrong to murder George Tiller in every sense of the word.

But what you are saying is utterly removed from any kind of reality. There were some abortions performed on children without brains, true. There were many more abortions performed on children with disabilities, who would be welcomed by other families, and on perfectly healthy infants simply because their mothers were very young.

Let’s also be clear that there is never a medical necessity for a third trimester abortion. NEVER. There is no scenario where one would say, “hmm, should we induce labor and deliver a pre-term infant, or should we dismember the infant in utereo?”. Never. What, I love kittens, could ever possibly justify that? Do you realize that every one of those third trimester abortions could have removed the child from the womb without killing the child? Every one of them? Do you realize that the reasons why these procedures were done were to prevent the child being born (perhaps a disabled or sick child) from being entitled to medical care and legal standing as a person? And to prevent the parents from being required to acknowledge this human being existed?

Do you have an understanding of biology? Have you ever seen an ultrasound? What do you think the distinction between a 27 week old fetus and baby is? Here’s a clue- it’s an umbilical cord. That’s the only difference. Babies of the same age are in prenatal nurseries. They aren’t sub-human. Do you realize that?

 

[jay29]

Unfortunately, his murder robbed him of the chance of realizing how wrong he was and asking for forgiveness before he died.

BALONEY! BALONEY! BALONEY!

God gives plenty of chances for people to seek forgiveness and repentance before death. Remember, He is an all forgiving God, on this side of death. There is no such thing as forgiveness of sins on the other side of death. There are no confessionals around during Divine Judgment.

God gives people plenty of chances to turn around before He calls for their souls.

God called this murdering doctor to Judgment and this doctor has no excuse.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I haven’t accused you of being sinful due to lack of sorrow over Dr. Tiller’s murder. I’m surprised my question has no meaning for you though. Our Lord said…

If we are to “be perfect” like our heavenly Father, I think the question about whether Our Lord feels sorrow over Dr. Tiller’s murder would actually mean something to a Christian. Sorry to have assumed too much. You are right - the human heart is weak. However, I think we are supposed to pray to Our Lord to give us the ability to have the same love and compassion for our enemies as we do our other neighbors.

It is not easy. I’m really bad at it…but I hope to someday get there.

The question means nothing for how a person is supposed to feel when they are told that another who has wounded them deeply (and everyone is wounded when babies are killed unnecessarily) has met their demise.

It is correct that we are to extend mercy and love as Jesus did. This means we all as Christians are obligated to pray for Dr. Tiller’s soul. But the will to extend mercy should not be confused with gut-based emotions. That is the point I have been trying to make, not that it is acceptable to wish evil on Dr. Tiller. I do not hate or wish evil on Dr. Tiller. I do not have any gut-based emotions about him, actually. I just don’t feel any emotion toward his absence in our world. I do, however, feel sorrow at the thought of him before the judgement God.

What troubles me is that many people will use the emotional aspect of this crime against Dr. Tiller as a way to demonize people who hold pro-life views and to distract attention away from the many victims of abortion.

 

[stringbeanduck]

Despite the number of murders this low life commited himself, it doesn’t justify him being murdered. Personally I figure as somewhat of a set back in the prolife movement, because it gives us a bad name. If stuff like this continues, this pro-death goverment could very well pass a bill keeping people from praying near abortions clinics, close down prolife organizations, ect… Yes I want this the killing of the unborn to stop just as much as any pro-life catholic here, but lets leave these low lifes for God to deal with.

This aside I thought it was pretty classy for his family to say: “George dedicated his life to providing women with high-quality health care…” Didn’t no you could subsitute ‘murder’ for ‘high-quality health care’.

 

[cyberwolf001]

This was a terrorist action, of course the conservative run Media would never see it this way…

Saddly this was bound to happen. Operation Rescue and most of the so called “pro-life” movement has this man’s blood on their hands. You distrubute propaganda calling people unstoppable, unchecked mass murderers, and someone will take the logical next step to stop said mass murderer.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

This was a terrorist action, of course the conservative run Media would never see it this way…

Saddly this was bound to happen. Operation Rescue and most of the so called “pro-life” movement has this man’s blood on their hands. You distrubute propaganda calling people unstoppable, unchecked mass murderers, and someone will take the logical next step to stop said mass murderer.

Dr. murdered: all pro-life groups have terroristic motives. (Despite the fact the murderer was primarily associated with an anti-government group.)

Baby murdered after being born alive after a failed abortion attempt in Flordia: crickets chirp.

 

[Wowbagger]

Incidentally, why are we referring to the assassination of Mister Tiller as a murder?

The killing was illegitimate because imprudent (CCC 2243), and on those grounds I condemn the action. But there’s nothing inherently unjust about taking the life of a practicing murderer who fully intended to murder again come Monday morning. Further, in a nation where there is no legitimate civil authority supporting human rights (and where the institutions of government are in fact directly opposed to efforts to protect those rights), there’s nothing untoward about a private citizen carrying out such a killing. If the killing is not unjust, then it may be illegitimate (as it was here), and it is certainly homicide, but it certainly isn’t murder. Calling it a “murder” only plays into the abortionists’ portrayal of the entire abortion issue as a battlefield where valiant “abortion doctors” advocating “women’s health” and “helping those in need” crusade against “crazy right-wing fanatics” who “oppose human rights.”

The only reason the killing was wrong – or so it seems to me – is because it damages the anti-abortion movement as a whole and makes it more likely that more babies are going to die in the long run. That’s a very serious problem, and one wishes Mr. Roeder had talked to somebody with a firmer head on his shoulders before committing this senseless act of justice. But let’s not feed the enemy narrative by conceding that this was a murder any more than they concede that Mr. Tiller was a murderer.

Yes?

And, yes, I will say two extra prayers tonight: one for the babies Mr. Tiller murdered and one for Mr. Tiller himself. Just because I think his killing was, in some sense, just does not mean I condemn the man, nor that I do not hope one day–somehow–to meet him in heaven.

 

[aggiecatholic05]

This was a terrorist action, of course the conservative run Media would never see it this way…

Saddly this was bound to happen. Operation Rescue and most of the so called “pro-life” movement has this man’s blood on their hands. You distrubute propaganda calling people unstoppable, unchecked mass murderers, and someone will take the logical next step to stop said mass murderer.

while any loss of life is tragic, your comments are insulting to humanity as a whole. they dismiss the countless murders he preformed and the rapes he covered up. this man WAS a mass murderer to say he was anything less would be a lie.

his blood is on his hands alone. there is NO way he would have died today if he had not been committed to a life as a hitman.

 

[aggiecatholic05]

before committing this senseless act of justice.

you know that might be the best phrasing of this event that i have seen yet. i know this will be an unavoidable topic tomorrow, and i know i may be the only person in the discussion who sees tiller as a monster not a hero, so i think i will borrow this phrase.

 

[Sonic]

BALONEY! BALONEY! BALONEY!

God gives plenty of chances for people to seek forgiveness and repentance before death. Remember, He is an all forgiving God, on this side of death. There is no such thing as forgiveness of sins on the other side of death. There are no confessionals around during Divine Judgment.

God gives people plenty of chances to turn around before He calls for their souls.

God called this murdering doctor to Judgment and this doctor has no excuse.

Whoa there little partner! I think you’ve misinterpreted what I meant to say… or at least I’ve written in a way confusing to you.

1. I never denied that God doesn’t give people enough chances. He does, and Tiller did have chances. I don’t mean to deny this.
2. I have no idea why you are lecturing me about forgiveness and the lack of chances after death. When did I say that Tiller or anyone else would be forgiven after death? I didn’t say that.
3. God did call this person to judgment. I don’t deny this in my post.
4. I never excused the doctor of anything, and I don’t understand where that came from either.

I have rewritten my statement in hopes that you have simply misunderstood me…

Tiller’s death is a shame. Tiller was responsible for the death (murder) of hundreds of children. No doubt, he is answering for all his sins. God gives everyone a chance to repent and change. I only wish he had repented before his demise.

This is the statement I think you have misunderstood…

~Unfortunately, his murder robbed him of the chance of realizing how wrong he was and asking for forgiveness before he died. ~

Rewritten…

Unfortunately, Tiller’s killer took vengeance in his own hands. No doubt, God would have called Tiller to judgment anyway if the killer hadn’t have chosen to shoot him. Vengeance belongs to God and not to the murderer. Hence, the suspect was not justified to take Tiller’s life in any way… because there is always a chance that God will reach someone before they die and are called to judgment (on God’s own terms). Taking vengeance, through killing, presumes upon God’s rights… because we as humans neither know when or how God intends for a person to die. Not that Tiller didn’t deserve to be stopped… because he did, but killing isn’t always the option… especially if it might cause others to suffer from it (like hurting the pro-life supporters or possibly helping to spoil the chances of putting an end to Abortion in this country).

Anyways, this is what I meant to say. Did you have to be so over dramatic in your post? If I’m wrong, please correct me in a quieter manner.

 

[Paul_Vincent]

This was a terrorist action, of course the conservative run Media would never see it this way…

Er, to what conservative-run media are you referring?

If terrorism is, and I quote, The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons, then I’d say you have a long way to go to prove this was an act of terrorism.

For starters, we do not even know yet that this was directly related to his abortion practice. Even if it is, we do not know that the person who committed this murder wasn’t acting out of grief and anger at the man for some of his criminal activity (i.e., covering up rapes by not reporting abortions for those under 14). Even if this murder was inspired by the ideology behind abortion, we have no way of knowing whether this guy wanted to inspire terror, or maybe just to stop this one guy from murdering another innocent.

Saddly this was bound to happen. Operation Rescue and most of the so called “pro-life” movement has this man’s blood on their hands. You distrubute propaganda calling people unstoppable, unchecked mass murderers, and someone will take the logical next step to stop said mass murderer.

Your demonizing of Operation Rescue and other pro-life groups does nothing to mitigate the fact that the taking of a human life with deliberation and forethought is murder, and that doing this on a massive scale is mass murder.

I see under your name you’re part of a group called “Prayer Warriors,” or some such. I assume you’re at least nominally pro-life (correct me if I’m wrong), in which case, you pray perhaps that babies might not get killed.* People in Operation Rescue pray, too, but they put feet to their faith by going out and protesting, showing signs and pictures depicting the truth of abortion, and educating those who would listen about the gift of personhood bestowed upon their unborn.

You should be ashamed for attacking these groups when the real villains apply the blood of innocents to their hands on a daily basis.

*This is, of course, assuming you pray to God. You might be praying to Moloch, under whom baby killing is not only approved but is compulsory.

 

[Wowbagger]

Thanks, aggie. I hope it comes in handy. Lord knows I’m grateful I have the day off tomorrow; I have no idea how I’m going to be able to face certain friends and co-workers of mine and explain what I think about this killing without alienating them.

I wish you luck. In fact, I’ll say a third prayer tonight: one for the whole anti-abortion movement and for you in particular. Mr. Tiller and the babies he killed are all dead, but we are going to suffer for this for a long time to come.

 

[aggiecatholic05]

I wish you luck. In fact, I’ll say a third prayer tonight: one for the whole anti-abortion movement and for you in particular. .

thanks. for all the grief we get for being anti-medical(which i am certianly not) youd be suprised how many chiropractors and their teachers are 100% pro-abortion.