Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

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As Catholics we know, that no matter what the deformities of a baby, it is never morally acceptable to get an abortion. Tiller “specialized” in late term abortions, on demand. Thousands of late term abortions done by Tiller were “elective” for the convenience of the woman. In those cases, he used the fake diagnosis of “temporary maternal depression” to skirt the law and abort perfectly healthy babies. He killed babies with Down Syndrome and Cystic Fibrosis. He even had a crematorium to incinerate the babies after he killed them. The whole thing is disturbing.

Every life has value and meaning, no matter how brief!

Eliot is a beautiful reminder of this:

youtube.com/watch?v=th6Njr-qkq0&feature=channel_page
 
Yeah, that story of the plane crashing into the Catholic Cemetery was a chilling “coincidence”.
Right, especially in light of the fact that 7 of those doomed passengers were children under 10 years old. Three families of mother, father and children gone. And there is some kind of vindication in that? Looks like YHWY performes the occasional post birth abortion. I’m feeling the chill too.
 
Two monsters
by Edward Feser

On November 28, 1994, notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison by a fellow inmate. Unspeakably heinous though Dahmer’s crimes were, his murder can only be condemned. To be sure, by committing his crimes, Dahmer had forfeited his right to life. By no means can it be said that the injustice he suffered was as grave as what he inflicted upon his victims. But the state alone had the moral authority to execute him, and no private individual can usurp that authority. Vigilantism is itself a grave offense against the moral and social order, and Dahmer’s murderer merited severe punishment.

The recent murder of another notorious serial killer – the late-term abortionist George Tiller – is in most morally relevant respects parallel to the Dahmer case. It is true that Tiller, unlike Dahmer, was not punished by our legal system for his crimes; indeed, most of those crimes, though clearly against the natural moral law, are not against the positive law of either the state or the country in which Tiller resided. That is testimony only to the extreme depravity of contemporary American society, and does not excuse Tiller one iota. Still, as in the Dahmer case, no private citizen has the right to take justice into his own hands, and Tiller’s murderer ought to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

As in the Dahmer case, though, the victim of this crime was himself an evil man and does not deserve our tears.

Do I seriously mean to suggest that Tiller was as bad as Dahmer? No, because Tiller was almost certainly a more evil man than Dahmer was. There are at least five considerations that favor this judgment.

First, Tiller’s victims were more numerous than Dahmer’s.

Second, Dahmer expressed remorse for his crimes. Tiller never did.

Third, and relatedly, Dahmer was apparently fully aware that what he did was evil, while Tiller pretended, to himself and others, that what he did was not evil. Some might think that such self-deception lessens Tiller’s moral corruption, but in fact it exacerbates it. A man who knows that what he does is evil but does it anyway is corrupt; a man who has become so desensitized to the evil he does that he can no longer even perceive it as evil is even more corrupt. The sins of the former are likely to be sins of weakness; the sins of the latter, to be willful sins of malice. (Older moralists understood this. The modern cult of “authenticity” and “sincerity” has blinded us to it – and is itself a mark of our own grave moral corruption.)

Fourth, and again relatedly, Dahmer was evidently to some extent acting out of compulsion. This does not exculpate him, and the compulsion was a consequence of his freely indulging his evil for years. Still, his will evidently had become so corrupted that he eventually reached the point where he could barely control himself. The problem was only exacerbated by the fact that his murderous impulses were associated with various sexual perversions – always unruly under even the best circumstances – and that he had learned to indulge his dark desires in secret, free from the fear of exposure and shame that would deter most others afflicted by the same bizarre temptations. Tiller’s murders, by contrast, were committed openly, and resulted from no compulsion at all. It was neither bloodlust, nor sexual perversion, nor any other ungovernable passion that drove him to baby-killing, but the cold and cruel willfulness of the ideologue. If Dahmer was a miniature Caligula, Tiller was a poor man’s Stalin, Hitler, or Pol Pot.

Finally, Tiller added to his already unspeakable crimes the grave sin of blasphemy, insofar as he was (we now know) a churchgoer who evidently regarded his obeisance to Moloch as fully compatible with the religion of Jesus Christ. To my knowledge Dahmer never had the temerity to claim that a good Christian could be a cannibal.

This side of the grave, we are, mercifully, spared the knowledge of who is in Hell. As a Catholic, I pray for Tiller’s soul, as I pray for Dahmer’s. But it would be foolish to think it at all likely that either man died in a state of grace. Still, I’d give Dahmer better odds than the other, greater monster.

Edward Feser teaches philosophy at Pasadena City College in Pasadena, California. He has been a visiting assistant professor at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles and a visiting scholar at the Social Philosophy and Policy Center at Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, Ohio. He holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of California at Santa Barbara, an M.A. in religion from the Claremont Graduate School, and a B.A. in philosophy and religious studies from the California State University at Fullerton.
 
AP reported, *"The slaying of the 67-year-old doctor is “an unspeakable tragedy,” his widow, four children and 10 grandchildren said in statement. “This is particularly heart-wrenching because George was shot down in his house of worship, a place of peace.”
*
How ironic on many levels… the womb is supposed to be a place of peace… and an abortionist attending church? Is that an oxymoron?

For years I have been trying to wrap my mind around this… How could someone perform late term abortions, and/or participate in any type of intrinsic evil, go to church??? How could Tiller, his wife and family be so blind? This has got to be one of the greatest mysteries… Does anyone have any answers? I use to (naively) believe that anyone going to church could be trusted to be a good person…??? But I have found some of the most unkind people…

I am still stunned by this news…
How many hundreds of priests not only went to church but performed the mass even though they were regularly buggering little boys? How many thousands accepted the host from the same hands that had been sexually fondling children? No church is a haven from the horrid things people do to other people.
 
Two monsters
by Edward Feser

On November 28, 1994, notorious serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison by a fellow inmate. Unspeakably heinous though Dahmer’s crimes were, his murder can only be condemned. To be sure, by committing his crimes, Dahmer had forfeited his right to life. By no means can it be said that the injustice he suffered was as grave as what he inflicted upon his victims. But the state alone had the moral authority to execute him, and no private individual can usurp that authority. Vigilantism is itself a grave offense against the moral and social order, and Dahmer’s murderer merited severe punishment.

The recent murder of another notorious serial killer – the late-term abortionist George Tiller – is in most morally relevant respects parallel to the Dahmer case. It is true that Tiller, unlike Dahmer, was not punished by our legal system for his crimes; indeed, most of those crimes, though clearly against the natural moral law, are not against the positive law of either the state or the country in which Tiller resided. That is testimony only to the extreme depravity of contemporary American society, and does not excuse Tiller one iota. Still, as in the Dahmer case, no private citizen has the right to take justice into his own hands, and Tiller’s murderer ought to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

As in the Dahmer case, though, the victim of this crime was himself an evil man and does not deserve our tears.

Do I seriously mean to suggest that Tiller was as bad as Dahmer? No, because Tiller was almost certainly a more evil man than Dahmer was. There are at least five considerations that favor this judgment.

First, Tiller’s victims were more numerous than Dahmer’s.

Second, Dahmer expressed remorse for his crimes. Tiller never did.

Third, and relatedly, Dahmer was apparently fully aware that what he did was evil, while Tiller pretended, to himself and others, that what he did was not evil. Some might think that such self-deception lessens Tiller’s moral corruption, but in fact it exacerbates it. A man who knows that what he does is evil but does it anyway is corrupt; a man who has become so desensitized to the evil he does that he can no longer even perceive it as evil is even more corrupt. The sins of the former are likely to be sins of weakness; the sins of the latter, to be willful sins of malice. (Older moralists understood this. The modern cult of “authenticity” and “sincerity” has blinded us to it – and is itself a mark of our own grave moral corruption.)

Fourth, and again relatedly, Dahmer was evidently to some extent acting out of compulsion. This does not exculpate him, and the compulsion was a consequence of his freely indulging his evil for years. Still, his will evidently had become so corrupted that he eventually reached the point where he could barely control himself. The problem was only exacerbated by the fact that his murderous impulses were associated with various sexual perversions – always unruly under even the best circumstances – and that he had learned to indulge his dark desires in secret, free from the fear of exposure and shame that would deter most others afflicted by the same bizarre temptations. Tiller’s murders, by contrast, were committed openly, and resulted from no compulsion at all. It was neither bloodlust, nor sexual perversion, nor any other ungovernable passion that drove him to baby-killing, but the cold and cruel willfulness of the ideologue. If Dahmer was a miniature Caligula, Tiller was a poor man’s Stalin, Hitler, or Pol Pot.

Finally, Tiller added to his already unspeakable crimes the grave sin of blasphemy, insofar as he was (we now know) a churchgoer who evidently regarded his obeisance to Moloch as fully compatible with the religion of Jesus Christ. To my knowledge Dahmer never had the temerity to claim that a good Christian could be a cannibal.

This side of the grave, we are, mercifully, spared the knowledge of who is in Hell. As a Catholic, I pray for Tiller’s soul, as I pray for Dahmer’s. But it would be foolish to think it at all likely that either man died in a state of grace. Still, I’d give Dahmer better odds than the other, greater monster.

Edward Feser teaches philosophy at Pasadena City College in Pasadena, California. He has been a visiting assistant professor at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles and a visiting scholar at the Social Philosophy and Policy Center at Bowling Green State University in Bowling Green, Ohio. He holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from the University of California at Santa Barbara, an M.A. in religion from the Claremont Graduate School, and a B.A. in philosophy and religious studies from the California State University at Fullerton.
Excellent article. Well put. I was thinking nearly the same thing, but I could not have said it so eloquently.
 
Dr. Ed Feser:
…by committing his crimes, Dahmer had forfeited his right to life.
I take serious issue with any sentence that claims the right to life can be forfeit. The Church seems crystal-clear on this point: you can’t “lose” your right to life, even if you can, in rare circumstances, be justly killed.

That said, he’s almost certainly right about his main point, for all the reasons he cites.

I’ve got to agree with MzAnnThrope regarding the plane crash: we really can’t find vindication in the deaths of still more innocents, though the ironies of the accident are duly noted.
 
I have not read the other responses, quite deliberately.

This murder hits home with me. My daughter is pregnant with her second child and due to give birth within the next two or three weeks. A close friend of hers became pregnant at about the same time and the two of them were joyfully sharing their experience and looking forward to the birth of their new babies.

About a month ago, my daughter’s friend learned that her much wanted and anticiapted baby, due in less than two months, was sadly afflicted with severe, multiple chromosomal disorders. The baby lacked the lower part of her spinal cord, most of her brain, and had organ deformities that would have almost certainly caused her to die within days if not hours of birth.

Upon learning of this tragedy, my daughter’s friend decided upon a late term abortion.

I cannot begin to express the agonized conversations my daughter and I shared on this topic. Nor the prayers we shared that her friend would make peace with her situation short of aborting her baby.

Yet in the end she decided to go through with the tragic and wrenching experience of terminating the pregnancy so close to term. I do not and cannot know what agonies this young woman suffered in doing so. Nor do I pretend to know what counsel she received prior to making her decision. I only know the sad situation ended with the abortion. Or so we thought…

Today I learned that this young woman’s doctor was none other than Dr. George Tiller.

My daughther tells me that not only is her friend now devastated at the loss of her baby but now torn with guilt that her decision and those of other women like her cost this Dr. his life. I cannot and do not pretend to understand this situation nor all of its horrendus implications, but I would ask for prayers for all of those whose lives have been devastated by this horrible event.
It is a tragedy that loving, sensitive mothers such as your daughter’s friend who have no intention of harming their children are deceived by men such as Dr. Tiller. Certainly it is a tragedy that this baby was severely disabled and faced death moments after birth; but even more of a tragedy that someone deceived this mother into believing that the baby should be denied even those few moments here in the sunlight with her mother, and would fare better being dismembered in the womb than to die naturally.

I am deeply sorry for your daughter’s friend, but her heart was in the right place. She had no intention of taking her child’s life. I am sure she only wanted her child not to suffer. She was deceived. This is very tragic, and I pray that she finds peace.
 
Yes…many but not many… perhaps no others, who regularly perform LATE term abortions. That is killing fully formed children who could easilly live outside their mother’s womb. All these acts are heinous but this is beyond the pale…or the stomachs of most abortionists. :eek:
IN fact there are two others who do the same late abortions. It is well known that there were three Dr who performed these techniques. Now one is gone.
 
i dont care. anyone that could think abortion was ok, or EVER, EVER vote for someone who thought abortion was ok, i dont care about their opinons what so ever. by that fact alone they have proven themselves irrational and unfit for civilized debate or respect.
Your sure gonna win a lot of converts with that attitude…

/sarc
 
How many hundreds of priests not only went to church but performed the mass even though they were regularly buggering little boys? How many thousands accepted the host from the same hands that had been sexually fondling children? No church is a haven from the horrid things people do to other people.
WOW-it took 656 posts before someone tried to hijack the thread by invoking the homosexual Priest scandal. Usually happnes much sooner in these types of threads.
 
WOW-it took 656 posts before someone tried to hijack the thread by invoking the homosexual Priest scandal. Usually happnes much sooner in these types of threads.
And even the slightest comparison of homosexual activity to murder is a large stretch.
 
Right, especially in light of the fact that 7 of those doomed passengers were children under 10 years old. Three families of mother, father and children gone. And there is some kind of vindication in that? Looks like YHWY performes the occasional post birth abortion. I’m feeling the chill too.
But I’m not so sure what you’re feeling the “chill” from? Explain, please.
 
This thread is inadvertently making a very important point about Christianity. I have sometimes heard it said that the warm “fuzzy” love your neighbor stuff is the “easy” part of Christianity. I have always maintained that, properly understood, love your neighbor is the hardest thing that can be asked of us.

We are called to love George Tiller, and his killer. Can anyone doubt how hard that is? Killing a man like Tiller is not hard. Hating a man like Tiller is even easier. Next time someone tells you that the “love everybody stuff” is easy or soft Christianity, think of Tiller, and then tell me how easy it is to practice Christ’s command.
 
We are called to love George Tiller, and his killer. Can anyone doubt how hard that is? Killing a man like Tiller is not hard. Hating a man like Tiller is even easier. Next time someone tells you that the “love everybody stuff” is easy or soft Christianity, think of Tiller, and then tell me how easy it is to practice Christ’s command.
Please tell me, does it say anywhere in sacred scripture or Church teaching, that Jesus asks us to do anything but ** “cast out demons”** instead of praying for them and loving them? If we “entertain angels unaware”…, hey maybe…well you get the point.
What I’m beginning to conclude in all of this, is that maybe we should all regret not having performed an exorcism on this man, Tiller…“for many came to Jesus possessed by demons, who were trying to kill them.”… (ie.throw them in fire, drown them etc.)
Maybe someone did try, I don’t know. Roeder’s demons just beat them, I guess.
 
Please tell me, does it say anywhere in sacred scripture or Church teaching, that Jesus asks us to do anything but ** “cast out demons”** instead of praying for them and loving them? If we “entertain angels unaware”…, hey maybe…well you get the point.
What I’m beginning to conclude in all of this, is that maybe we should all regret not having performed an exorcism on this man, Tiller…“for many came to Jesus possessed by demons, who were trying to kill them.”… (ie.throw them in fire, drown them etc.)
Maybe someone did try, I don’t know. Roeder’s demons just beat them, I guess.
Seriously? The exorcisms Christ performed were acts of love and healing, not violence and retribution. As for the proper attitude toward our enemies, Jesus could not have been more clear:
38 You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’
39 But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.
40 If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well.
41 Should anyone press you into service for one mile, go with him for two miles.
42 Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.
43 "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same?
48 So be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 5:38-48

So where does Christ say, and if that doesn’t work, shoot him in the head? Or even, hate him in your heart and hope that he burns in Hell?

We are unequivocally called to love people like Tiller and the man that shot him. I pray that they be forgiven their sins, as I hope my own will be forgiven, and I pray that Christ welcomes them both into His arms.
 
Please tell me, does it say anywhere in sacred scripture or Church teaching, that Jesus asks us to do anything but ** “cast out demons”** instead of praying for them and loving them? If we “entertain angels unaware”…, hey maybe…well you get the point.
What I’m beginning to conclude in all of this, is that maybe we should all regret not having performed an exorcism on this man, Tiller…“for many came to Jesus possessed by demons, who were trying to kill them.”… (ie.throw them in fire, drown them etc.)
Maybe someone did try, I don’t know. Roeder’s demons just beat them, I guess.
I really hope you don’t think literally he was possessed…
Good point, although unrepented,** both **sins can put a soul into hell for all eternity.
See, it’s language and phrasing like this that turns away homosexuals from becoming Catholic. If some Scientologist came up to me and said “you will go to hell if you do not accept Lord Xenu” both me and you and everyone else here would laugh our butts off and walk away thinking he was crazy. Well, that’s how Homosexuals view what you just said. I know we don’t always have the time to fully explain Church doctrine to people, but using “my way or the highway” language NEVER works and will always do the opposite. I can’t imagine Thomas Aquinas engaging in one sentence ridiculous cliches.
 
I really hope you don’t think literally he was possessed…

See, it’s language and phrasing like this that turns away homosexuals from becoming Catholic. If some Scientologist came up to me and said “you will go to hell if you do not accept Lord Xenu” both me and you and everyone else here would laugh our butts off and walk away thinking he was crazy. Well, that’s how Homosexuals view what you just said. I know we don’t always have the time to fully explain Church doctrine to people, but using “my way or the highway” language NEVER works and will always do the opposite. I can’t imagine Thomas Aquinas engaging in one sentence ridiculous cliches.
I don’t think that is necessarily true. Consider this analogy: a man has been walking through the desert for a very long time wearing a blindfold, and along comes another man and says, “if you keep walking the direction you are walking you are going to fall of a cliff.” You are telling me, the blindfolded man is going to “laugh his butt off” and keep walking that direction anyway? I doubt it. The problem isn’t the fact that it is a one liner, the problem is that people like yourself don’t believe it could possibly be true so you don’t give the person saying it the benefit of the doubt.
 
WOW-it took 656 posts before someone tried to hijack the thread by invoking the homosexual Priest scandal. Usually happnes much sooner in these types of threads.
See what number post marked the appearance of abortion in the ‘Obama in Cairo’ threads in Political News.
 
Seriously? The exorcisms Christ performed were acts of love and healing, not violence and retribution. As for the proper attitude toward our enemies, Jesus could not have been more clear:

Matthew 5:38-48
But it wasn’t Christ’s love for the demons, was it? I’m well aware of how Jesus commanded us to “love our enemies”, that wasn’t my question. I asked if Jesus ever said we should pray for and love demons. Aren’t they the*** real enemies***? I suggested that maybe we should have performed an exorcism on Tiller, the man. Wouldn’t that have been the most merciful way to love him and** pray for him**? I only recall Jesus telling us to pray by saying,*** "deliver us from evil", not to love and pray for it.
Tiller wasn’t
my personal*** enemy, but an enemy of God and His littlest ones.
I’m certain that God is*** totally in control of the situation, and that we’re all left to wrestle with the implications in our own consciences.
I trust in God’s mercy and
justice
*-wholeheartedly.
And I pray that discussions like these will continue to bring more clarity and light to a very distressing cultural war.
 
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