Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[Gabriella_San_S]

See what number post marked the appearance of abortion in the ‘Obama in Cairo’ threads in Political News.

That would be** my** post, Beau.:tiphat: Did you want to mention, also, that I was highlighting
Obama’s reference to the extermination of six million jews…and that he said that he was going to visit the death camps on his visit? I guess in*** your*** mind, that doesn’t even*** remotely *** resemble the abortion holocaust in our backyards.
What’s wrong with asking the President to visit George Tiller’s death mill to pay his respects for Tiller, next to his personal incinerator where 60, 000 dead children were thrown? Too much of a stretch? I hardly think so.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

That would be** my** post, Beau.:tiphat: Did you want to mention, also, that I was highlighting
Obama’s reference to the extermination of six million jews…and that he said that he was going to visit the death camps on his visit? I guess in*** your*** mind, that doesn’t even*** remotely *** resemble the abortion holocaust in our backyards.
What’s wrong with asking the President to visit George Tiller’s death mill to pay his respects for Tiller, next to his personal incinerator where 60, 000 dead children were thrown? Too much of a stretch? I hardly think so.

While the issue of abortion is an important issue, it is by no means the only issue. Forum rules require posters to remain on topic but abortion seems to creep into each thread, no matter the subject. So for a poster here to bemoan the mentioning of an off-topic subject, that is odd.

 

[greg_b]

I don’t think that is necessarily true. Consider this analogy: a man has been walking through the desert for a very long time wearing a blindfold, and along comes another man and says, “if you keep walking the direction you are walking you are going to fall of a cliff.” You are telling me, the blindfolded man is going to “laugh his butt off” and keep walking that direction anyway? I doubt it. The problem isn’t the fact that it is a one liner, the problem is that people like yourself don’t believe it could possibly be true so you don’t give the person saying it the benefit of the doubt.

Oh please, use that one liner on 10 random homosexuals and come back to and tell me how many converted on the spot. I hope you will bet with me on this because I plan on getting very rich.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Oh please, use that one liner on 10 random homosexuals and come back to and tell me how many converted on the spot. I hope you will bet with me on this because I plan on getting very rich.

You missed the point entirely. I didn’t say you would believe BECAUSE it is a one liner, I said the reason you DON’T believe it is NOT BECAUSE it is a one liner, but because you don’t believe it is a possibility in the first place so you give no credence to the person saying it. There are plenty of other one liners that you will believe in similar situations, (as per my analogy.)

Want to get rich? Go buy 1 million shares of SPNG.

 

[estesbob]

See what number post marked the appearance of abortion in the ‘Obama in Cairo’ threads in Political News.

Not many-Ill probably be the one to do it!

 

[greg_b]

You missed the point entirely. I didn’t say you would believe BECAUSE it is a one liner, I said the reason you DON’T believe it is NOT BECAUSE it is a one liner, but because you don’t believe it is a possibility in the first place so you give no credence to the person saying it. There are plenty of other one liners that you will believe in similar situations, (as per my analogy.)

But that’s my whole point. If you want to convince a homosexual not to engage in their sexual acts, one liners are not gonna do it, and you would need a long explanation to show why, and even then you need to explain in a way in which they can understand, and even then they still might have previous emotions and misconceptions which may take a long time to overcome. It’s like how I am trying to explain in the evolution thread that science and evolution are objective facts that the Church finds no disagreement with, and yet Catholics there are denying total reality and claiming conspiracy theories that all scientists are evil atheist bent on destroying them in their sleep.

 

[RobbyS]

You are asking a very fair question, and raising an excellent point.
You,** wowbagger**, myself and others on this thread are merely exploring the complexities of this unusual incident, which is fraught with moral implications on every side. Why shouldn’t we" break it down" in light of biblical references; historical comparisons; the magisterial teaching and canonical law of the Church; philosophical and psychological and theological reasoning?
It should be stated once again, that not all of us contend that this is a clear-cut case. To bring up the idea of Divine retribution is worth pondering.

Tiller died because he provoked the rage of another man. He died because he had become hardened to the deeds he did, and could no longer see his deeds through the eyes of others.

 

[TMC]

But it wasn’t Christ’s love for the demons, was it? I’m well aware of how Jesus commanded us to “love our enemies”, that wasn’t my question. I asked if Jesus ever said we should pray for and love demons. Aren’t they the*** real enemies***? I suggested that maybe we should have performed an exorcism on Tiller, the man. Wouldn’t that have been the most merciful way to love him and** pray for him**? I only recall Jesus telling us to pray by saying,*** "deliver us from evil", not to love and pray for it.
Tiller wasn’t my personal*** enemy, but an enemy of God and His littlest ones.
I’m certain that God is*** totally in control of the situation, and that we’re all left to wrestle with the implications in our own consciences.
I trust in God’s mercy and justice*-wholeheartedly.
And I pray that discussions like these will continue to bring more clarity and light to a very distressing cultural war.

So Tiller is a demon? Or are you saying he was possessed? I don’t get your point. I didn’t suggest loving demons. That said, I don’t think an exorcism of Tiller would have been efficacious.

My point is that, while some have expressed love and concern for Tiller, there is also a lot of hate being tossed around here. I understand that. I am just pointing out that this demonstrates how truly difficult Christ’s command to love your neighbor is. If we are honest with ourselves, most would admit that this is a tough teaching. Extreme cases like this one are a good opportunity to reflect on that, and to work on it.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

But that’s my whole point. If you want to convince a homosexual not to engage in their sexual acts, one liners are not gonna do it, and you would need a long explanation to show why, and even then you need to explain in a way in which they can understand, and even then they still might have previous emotions and misconceptions which may take a long time to overcome. .

Hey, greg
My “one-liner” about unrepented homosexual activity and** murder**, both being sins that could put a soul into hell for all eternity, was emphasizing the*** gravity*** of serious sin and unrepentance.
I wasn’t directing that statement to homosexuals whom I was trying to “convert.”
I happen to be one of eight children,and two of them are struggling with same-sex attraction. I love them*** dearly ***and pray for them, without condoning their lifestyle-I am very sensitive to their deep interior struggle-emotionally and spiritually.
But I believe we’re getting off topic:juggle: God bless you!

 

[E.E.N.S]

But that’s my whole point. If you want to convince a homosexual not to engage in their sexual acts, one liners are not gonna do it, and you would need a long explanation to show why, and even then you need to explain in a way in which they can understand, and even then they still might have previous emotions and misconceptions which may take a long time to overcome. It’s like how I am trying to explain in the evolution thread that science and evolution are objective facts that the Church finds no disagreement with, and yet Catholics there are denying total reality and claiming conspiracy theories that all scientists are evil atheist bent on destroying them in their sleep.

A person needs to start somewhere, so why not a one liner? The fault is not on the side of the persona saying the one liner, but on the person shutting it out. Add that one liner to the fact that we are on a forum that has discussed this ad nauseum and we can no longer give the excuse that (the person on the forum at least) there is only a one liner that is being tossed around with no further discussion. To say so would be intellectual dishonesty in the very least.

I myself have 2 friends that have same-sex attraction, and I have had many, many discussions with them over the years, and each conversation starts with a one liner of sorts, (“Pope Pius the XII was Hitler’s Pope…”, “Homosexual activity is sinful and dangerous…”, “God can’t exist because there is evil…” etc.) but if both parties are intellectually honest, and willing to dialogue, the conversation can proceed from there. One of these friends, a friend that I met through work, toutted himself to be an “anti-religion, homosexual atheist”, and yet at the end of the 3 years that we worked together he said that I was one of his truest friends and that he was willing to concede that there was a high probability of a God, and that Christianity seemed at least probable enough to be given a high level of credence, but that he was not ready to change his lifestyle. He was, in my opinion, a very smart person, and I enjoyed (most) of our discussions/debates as he was a person who was willing to be intellectually honest.

You say that one liners don’t work. I would agree with you in some circumstances that they may prove ineffectual (such as the homosexual issue that we are currently discussing), however on these boards things are rarely left to be just a one liner. Can you honestly say that the only thing people here say is that "homosecuals with go to hell if they keep living that lifestyle unrepentantly?

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

So Tiller is a demon? Or are you saying he was possessed? I don’t get your point. I didn’t suggest loving demons. That said, I don’t think an exorcism of Tiller would have been efficacious.

Tiller was a man. Could he have been possessed? That was my question.
I know that you didn’t suggest loving demons, but** loving Tiller** is hard for many Christians right about now. So,*** why*** wouldn’ t it have been efficacious for Tiller to be exorcized? Just curious.

 

[greg_b]

Can you honestly say that the only thing people here say is that "homosecuals with go to hell if they keep living that lifestyle unrepentantly?

Sometimes we have people here who say “I say this blah blah and that’s that!”, but most the time we do have in depth discussions here. But that is the whole point of a Catholic message board where we preach to the choir. I was referring to outside situations with non-Catholics.

 

[aicirt]

Look what some are saying in the Mainline churches:

The most outrageous support for Tiller came from the Very Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, president of Episcopal Divinity School in Cambridge Mass. Who said, “This is about the loss of a man who was a saint and a martyr. He was a prayerful man who put his life at risk to protect others and died for it. People are in shock, outrage and mourning.”

Ms. Ragsdale said she once visited Dr. Tiller’s clinic in Wichita to defend it from anti-abortion protests. She recently called abortion “a blessing.”

She described Dr. George Tiller, a true hero for women across the country. "Since the 1970s, Dr. Tiller has provided critical abortion and reproductive health care at great personal risk. In doing so, he has saved the lives and futures of countless women and girls across the country. His murder is a tragedy for his family, friends, and colleagues. It is also a tragedy for the women who need his care and for the entire community of health care providers and advocates, and for all of us who believe in a woman’s right to dignity and self-determination. Please join us in honoring this great man who truly lived by his motto to “Trust Women.”

This is the church, BTW, that recently welcomed Fr. Oprah into with open arms. How sad.

Unbelievable! We Catholics have had to endure the peodphile scandal which was caused by the sins of some and the cover-up of those sins by others. IT was not a policy of the Church. I don’t know how thinking members of these churches can tolerate where they are being led. If Satan has been prowling the Catholic Church, he has found a warm bed in some of the Protestant churches.
I read where the Methodist Church will hold the funeral for Tiller because it is larger than the Reformed Lutheran.
Marcus Grodi interviewed a former Methodist on The Journey Home. The church is ruled by elders elected every four years at which time policies may be changed. This means sometimes the church is against abortion and sometimes it isn’t. How can that be???!!!
Tiller was a mass murderer, a serial murderer. It may be the law but that does not make it moral. I’m sure, unfortunately, that the Catholic Governor will make an apparence at the funeral.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Sometimes we have people here who say “I say this blah blah and that’s that!”, but most the time we do have in depth discussions here. But that is the whole point of a Catholic message board where we preach to the choir. I was referring to outside situations with non-Catholics.

Homosexuals* (typo in my above post)

Anyway, I agree, though I would have to say that only about 50% of the things said here are “preaching to the choir” as it is a pretty diverse board, even the Catholics are divided quite largely down the middle on politics and morals here.

Outside situations vary more however, as many people are uncomfortable discussion their faith for one reason or another, and others, (like myself), would much rather discuss them openly face-to-face.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

While the issue of** abortion is an important issue**, it is by no means the only issue. Forum rules require posters to remain on topic but abortion seems to creep into each thread, no matter the subject. So for a poster here to bemoan the mentioning of an off-topic subject, that is odd.

Abortion is not** just** an*** important*** issue, it’s*** the critical*** issue.
Remember, Beau, if this fundamental,*** constitutional*** right continues to be denied to*** any *class of citizens…we have no premise for any **of the other rights we **defend **or enjoy. And I don’t feel that’s "off topic" in the least! Peace.

 

[joe_clark]

This medical doctor has had decades to benefit from the prayers of those who wanted him to stop killing the unborn. He did not stop because of prayers, he stopped because he himself was killed by a man, who like the doctor, took the law into his own hands.
There is a substantial difference in the 2 cases…the doctor killed about 60,000 innocent children and his killer only one…and not for money.
I did not kill the abortion doctor…I did not will his death…nor council it. Neither am I mourning or sobbing in my pillow over it. I always want serial killers to be stopped and I hope they give up peacefully and nobody else is hurt but sometimes they don’t give up peacefully…we all watch tv news.

Still trying real hard to negotiate murder? Tiller was not a serial killer in the eyes of the law. Don’t like the law, change it. The shooter did not kill Tiller in defense of anyone. He walked quietly behind him and murdered him. This is what a freaked out, extreme P-off person in life does when they are at wits end and can’t stand not getting their way.

If you don’t like abortions, how about tapping the pregnant females on the shoulders and speak to them. Doctors cannot perform abortions without a female looking to terminate. Imagine that for a moment. Women that become pregnant that will not even consider terminating a pregnancy…sounds right to me. This is where ground zero is. The doctors who perform abortions are the symptom and to some extent a scapegoat. It is much easier to vent your anger and rage, in this case murder a male than a female.

If abortion was outlawed in this country, this sadly will not stop the practice. Poor women will resort to the hanger method and the affluent will “take trips” out of the country for a short time. Need to fight the war of conscience. Just an observation…

 

[joe_clark]

…

 

[Templar1129]

My previous post was deleted. It seems someone took it as condoning violence. If that is how it sounded, I apologize.

I will rephrase my statement:

I feel no sympathy for Geroge. Maybe I should. Maybe I am wrong. But I feel no sympathy for a man who made the conscious decision to butcher innocents over and over and over, and to profit from it.

I really believe that the greatest thing would be for someone like this to repent of his evils. But he didn’t, and he continued to do it with glee.

It’s one thing, in my opinion, to sin with consenting adults, people who also make that decision, but to do harm to others, especially the innocent, to butcher them and propagate the butchery, is beyond comprehension.

Geroge was well aware of what he did-he slaughtered the babies-he personally tore them limb from limb to be dumped like trash. What’s the difference between what Geroge did and another monster cutting someone up alive with a chainsaw? Only the fact that the persons he butchered were totally innocent and helpless, and that their screams were muffled by their mother’s body.

I don’t like killing anything. I go out of my way to help people, animals, even an ant. I believe that life is sacred-all life.

But I must say that concerning Geroge I have no sympathy whatsoever. May God have mercy on him, and on us. May there be some kind of redemption over this. But one thing I think of is this: Geroge won’t be butchering babies anymore. As far as I’m concerned, good riddance.

Now, if people disagree, fine. If this sounds offensive, I’d appreciate someone explaining something before labeling my opinion as condoning violence.

 

[cathgal]

If abortion was outlawed in this country, this sadly will not stop the practice. Poor women will resort to the hanger method and the affluent will “take trips” out of the country for a short time. Need to fight the war of conscience. Just an observation…

What are you suggesting…that abortion law remains intact?

 

[aicirt]

Watching Fox News it was reported on the night of his murder that he had terminated over 60,000 fetuses during his 30+ year “career” as an abortionist.

This guy is Joseph Mengele. I have zero sympathy. I have more sympathy for the 60k lives destroyed by this sick butcher. Tiller the Killer was the nickname, appropriate.

Imagine during WWII with Himmler, Goebbels, Mengele, and all those Auschwitz/Sobibor death camps, the hundreds of thousands and eventually millions of Jews exterminated. After these guys committed suicide or were caught, nobody shed a tear. Tiller is nothing but a modern-day death camp Nazi IMO. Sick…

And as for this argument that Obama and his liberal goons now have more ammo and proof that we pro-lifers are lunatics and that our position is wrong, do you seriously think Obama and the left ever thought otherwise? They don’t need an excuse. They are assaulting life right and left anyway. Tiller had evaded conviction more than once. Heck, Sebelius, the new cabinet pick by Obama, was Tiller’s number one fan and donor in Kansas! This murder won’t set back the pro-life movement. Obama’s going to set it back with or without Tiller taking a dirt nap.

I believe in the last 40 years 50,000,000 maybe 60,000,000 million children in the US have been aborted. Tiller the Killer murdered 60,000 by his own admission. There are 150 million pro-lifers. Since Roe vs. Wade there have been 5 abortionists killed.
I agree with your statements. The man was a serial killer of innocent beings who were totally at his mercy and the mercy of their mothers. They are the only group of humans in this country who do not get a trial, a reprieve, parole or pardon. They are appointed no lawyer. He and others like him serve as judge and jury to whether they live or die. The law may be the law but it is not moral. And any church who supported him, took his money, or participates in his funeral is guilty of promoting his sin through scandal.