Abortion Doctor Geroge Tiller Murdered this morning

[Mary_Gail_36]

greg_b;5286574:

He is totally clueless. We can only kill in self-defense. Also:

"The grounds for excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church are these:

1. Giving absolution to a person complicit in violation of the 6th commandment (murder) except at the time of death.
   QUOTE]

I’ve been Catholic many years and according to the Catholic church version of the 10 Commandments the 6th commandment is:

 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Adultery is evil but it is not “murder”.

It does have to do with adultery. A priest cannot give absolution to the woman he has had an affair with.

 

[greg_b]

onetruechurch;5286661:

It does have to do with adultery. A priest cannot give absolution to the woman he has had an affair with.

That gave me a good laugh

 

[maggiemay2u]

I didn’t mourn the death of George Tiller, just as I didn’t mourn the deaths of Jeffrey Dahlmer, Ted Bundy, Tim McVeigh or Saddam Hussein.

I mourn their lives, what they became, and the evil that they perpetrated.

Dante must have conjured a special circle for those who kill indiscriminately the most defenseless of us all. I pray for all concerned.

 

[onetruechurch]

It does have to do with adultery. A priest cannot give absolution to the woman he has had an affair with.

Precisely, Mary…that is why the person did NOT get the number wrong. I believe the word (murder) was inserted by someone who did not know the Catholic version of the 6th commandment was not the same as the protestant version. There are probably many converts who do not realize that the Catholic numbering system is different and therefore can be confused when reading the list of reasons for excommunication. I only mentioned it because I wanted to make sure Greg understood that murder is NOT a reason for excommunication unless it is murder of the unborn.

 

[greg_b]

I only mentioned it because I wanted to make sure Greg understood that murder is NOT a reason for excommunication unless it is murder of the unborn.

So if a baby is halfway outside it’s mother and it is killed, is that murder or abortion? What is the difference? excommunication or not?

 

[aicirt]

Since I haven’t read through all 48 pages in the thread, I don’t know if someone HAS brought this up, but:

Does the fact that this baby-killer was an USHER in a church not disturb anyone?

Many have asked the same. It disturbs me that he was even a member of a church and that the church took his blood money. I don’t know if this is true but he, supposedly, was a member of the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church which kicked him out. Good for Them!!!

Now I’ve read where the Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, an Episcopalian minister and head of a seminary, has called him a martyr. To whom? Satan? Ragsdale favors abortion.

The Methodist Church, larger than Tiller’s Reformed Lutheran Church, is said to be where the service will be held because it is larger and can handle the crowd.

My question is are any Protestants shocked? I personally wouldn’t cross the street to see Pelosi etc. nor would I attend the same Church as she.

I hope and pray that many Protestants are forced to seriously consider their churches attitudes towards abortions and make changes for the sake of their souls. I’d be running out of there.

 

[aicirt]

The example I gave with Madeline Albright was not UNINTENTIONAL, she admitted complicit intentional killing, so that instance was definitely not “Collateral damage”

And wait, that’s odd, isn’t “Collateral damage” sometimes a phrase people will use to defend abortion. Hmmm…

For crying out loud guys, stop condemning one form of murder but then turning around and defending another

When confronted with a serious moral problem, Christians are bound to choose “none of the above” when confronted with two evils, even when one is a greater evil than the other. Consider a thought experiment:

You have been captured by a band of criminals. In a room stands you, two criminals, and 11 children. Criminal A hands you a gun and tells you to shoot one of the children in the head or the other 10 will be murdered by criminal B who has a machine gun. What do you do?

Saint Augustine established about 1600 years ago that the proper response in this case is to say “I chose neither. I will not cooperate in committing evil.”

This is the proper response for several reasons:

1. 10 children are not worth more than 1 child. Each human person is infinitely valuable, and for you to cooperate in the murder of one of them, no matter what your motivation, is to be a murderer, and no less a murderer than the one who murders 10. Humans cannot be reduced to math equations in Christian morality.
2. If criminal B proceeds to murder 10 children, you are not morally culpable. The murderers are the criminals, not you. You have a responsibility to not damn yourself and to not cooperate in evil.
3. You cannot predict the future. You don’t know that if you shoot the one child that the criminals will keep their words and spare the children. It could be that you will all be murdered no matter what, and all that you have accomplished is to become a murderer yourself. You also don’t know that if you spare the one, that the criminals won’t spare all of you for some other reason.

Many Christians are choosing to shoot the one child in the vain hope of saving the lives of the other 10. For this, they will be called to account.

Another timeless truth - “It is better to endure an evil than to commit one.”

Get real, Greg! This slaughter has been going on for 40 years. It is a law…unfair and immoral. We now have Protestant churches calling Tiller a saint and martyr.

Innoncent civilians and children killed in war is unintentional. It is what makes war so horrid. Tell me we went in and killed every child in an orphanage or school then that is intentional and a war crime. But here it isn’t a crime to pull a baby out of its mother’s womb.

 

[onetruechurch]

So if a baby is halfway outside it’s mother and it is killed, is that murder or abortion? What is the difference? excommunication or not?

If a woman “intends” an abortion and an abortion is committed she would be committing the sin that is deserving of excommunication.
If a woman did not intend an abortion and was forced onto the abortionist’s table like some women are in China she would not be commiting a sin at all.

“Intention” of committing abortion is the key.

Therefore, it does not matter if the baby is halfway out or not…the woman committed the sin of abortion as soon as she consented willingly to the butcher’s knife.

 

[greg_b]

Get real, Greg! This slaughter has been going on for 40 years. It is a law…unfair and immoral. We now have Protestant churches calling Tiller a saint and martyr.

Innoncent civilians and children killed in war is unintentional. It is what makes war so horrid. Tell me we went in and killed every child in an orphanage or school then that is intentional and a war crime. But here it isn’t a crime to pull a baby out of its mother’s womb.

“Innoncent civilians and children killed in war is unintentional?” Oh please, try telling that to a Holocaust survivor. Any any war waged for non-defensive reasons and/or based off lies or deceit is mass murder, and you know damn well that’s true.

If a woman “intends” an abortion and an abortion is committed she would be committing the sin that is deserving of excommunication.
If a woman did not intend an abortion and was forced onto the abortionist’s table like some women are in China she would not be commiting a sin at all.

“Intention” of committing abortion is the key.

Therefore, it does not matter if the baby is halfway out or not…the woman committed the sin of abortion as soon as she consented willingly to the butcher’s knife.

That doesn’t answer the question though, when does abortion stop and murder begin?

 

[Agatina]

Abortion is always murder.

 

[LutheranDK]

Many have asked the same. It disturbs me that he was even a member of a church and that the church took his blood money. I don’t know if this is true but he, supposedly, was a member of the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church which kicked him out. Good for Them!!!

And good for the cause of Christendom.
“auferte malum ex vobis ipsis”…

My question is are any Protestants shocked? I personally wouldn’t cross the street to see Pelosi etc. nor would I attend the same Church as she.

Take a guess after having read my comments

I hope and pray that many Protestants are forced to seriously consider their churches attitudes towards abortions and make changes for the sake of their souls. I’d be running out of there.

Why do you insist on lumping “protestants” together as ONE group - when you have just observed that he was “excommunicated” by the second-largest Lutheran church in the US?

And secondly: Should RCs “run out of” the RC church, because cafeteria RCs support infanticide and claim that it’s ok?
No.
Therefore, your argument is, yet another, non-sequitur.

 

[LutheranDK]

“Innoncent civilians and children killed in war is unintentional?” Oh please, try telling that to a Holocaust survivor. Any any war waged for non-defensive reasons and/or based off lies or deceit is mass murder, and you know damn well that’s true.

No one except far-fetched Michael Moore fanboys (and -girls), and “pacifists” (euphemism for “bloody freeloaders”) “know” that, no.
The Shoah is just exactly in the category of which aicirt spoke - where someone would walk into an orphanage, a marketplace, a synagogue, a school, etc, and kill everyone there.
The Shoah does NOT fall under the category of collateral damage, and if you are sentient at all you KNOW this! The Shoah was no accident, not a result of a bomb missing its target. The Shoah was the premeditated, systematic, highly organized murder of millions of people. To compare that to modern warfare in an urban environment is ridiculous, and says more about the level of intelligence of anyone claiming such a thing, than about anything else

 

[greg_b]

No one except far-fetched Michael Moore fanboys (and -girls), and “pacifists” (euphemism for “bloody freeloaders”) “know” that, no.
The Shoah is just exactly in the category of which aicirt spoke - where someone would walk into an orphanage, a marketplace, a synagogue, a school, etc, and kill everyone there.
The Shoah does NOT fall under the category of collateral damage, and if you are sentient at all you KNOW this! The Shoah was no accident, not a result of a bomb missing its target. The Shoah was the premeditated, systematic, highly organized murder of millions of people. To compare that to modern warfare in an urban environment is ridiculous, and says more about the level of intelligence of anyone claiming such a thing, than about anything else

Well all that collateral damage wouldn’t happen in the first place if the war wasn’t waged in the first place! If you wage an unjust war, all that “collateral damage” immediately becomes battlefield abortion which the aggressor state is fully responsible for.

 

[RobbyS]

No one except far-fetched Michael Moore fanboys (and -girls), and “pacifists” (euphemism for “bloody freeloaders”) “know” that, no.
The Shoah is just exactly in the category of which aicirt spoke - where someone would walk into an orphanage, a marketplace, a synagogue, a school, etc, and kill everyone there.
The Shoah does NOT fall under the category of collateral damage, and if you are sentient at all you KNOW this! The Shoah was no accident, not a result of a bomb missing its target. The Shoah was the premeditated, systematic, highly organized murder of millions of people. To compare that to modern warfare in an urban environment is ridiculous, and says more about the level of intelligence of anyone claiming such a thing, than about anything else

It was deliberate mass murder, because Hitler and his followers were insane on the issue
of the “bad blood” of the Jews. He devoted huge resources to killing Jews, even diverting resources that the military needed to beat back the Russians.

 

[cathgal]

I seriously hope the people here complaining about abortion are at least like me and being consistent and equally angry at our government killing people and children overseas, otherwise they are nothing but crocodile tears.

I don’t believe anyone who complains about abortion is also not angry about the killing overseas.

All life is sacred, but I think the reason why people don’t focus too much on it is because abortion is so evil that it overshadows other evils and it happens everyday and every moment right in your hometown, and many do not even think about it. It has been going on for far too long and it’s no where near of ending it. What’s worse, it is the only form of murdering of the most innocents that is LEGAL all over the world. LEGAL because it is not recognized as murder. So it’s perfectly natural for people to feel zealously angry about this evil than anything else.

 

[cathgal]

That is a stupid argument. Since a soul is eternal, killing 1 man versus killing 100 men is equally abhorrent. Christianity isn’t a numbers game, you don’t say your murder is better than the other because less people were killed. And most the time “collateral damage” is just the governments way of saying “yeah we killed them and we could have avoided it altogether but were just gonna invent this term called collateral damage so you guys can sleep easy at night”

Just killing any innocent human is abhorrent, but weighing the scale needs to be considered also.

Say there are two buildings that will be bombed. One building has 5 people. The other has 100.

If you are given a choice to pick only one to save, which would you choose?

That’s why pro-lifers concentrate on fighting to end abortion first and foremost. Of course the building example is no where near to the evil of abortion.

 

[pismopal]

Still trying real hard to negotiate murder? Tiller was not a serial killer in the eyes of the law. Don’t like the law, change it. The shooter did not kill Tiller in defense of anyone. He walked quietly behind him and murdered him. This is what a freaked out, extreme P-off person in life does when they are at wits end and can’t stand not getting their way.

If you don’t like abortions, how about tapping the pregnant females on the shoulders and speak to them. Doctors cannot perform abortions without a female looking to terminate. Imagine that for a moment. Women that become pregnant that will not even consider terminating a pregnancy…sounds right to me. This is where ground zero is. The doctors who perform abortions are the symptom and to some extent a scapegoat. It is much easier to vent your anger and rage, in this case murder a male than a female.

If abortion was outlawed in this country, this sadly will not stop the practice. Poor women will resort to the hanger method and the affluent will “take trips” out of the country for a short time. Need to fight the war of conscience. Just an observation…

What are you trying to “negotiate” my Catholic friend? If I don’t like abortions…you say. Yes…that’s right I don’t like abortion and I don’t vote for anyone who does if there is any choice. Your points, if you have any, are a little hard to follow so excuse me for not addressing all/any/some/none of them. Further…find a statement by me which encourages killing slimeballs like Tiller. I have made some statements about people who claim to be Catholic but make excuses for the crime against God and humanity which is abortion. The excuse that because something is legal makes it OK is beyond lame…you may take that any way you wish.

 

[buffalo]

Tiller on O’Reilly - listen to the young woman’s testimony.

 

[aicirt]

“Innoncent civilians and children killed in war is unintentional?” Oh please, try telling that to a Holocaust survivor. Any any war waged for non-defensive reasons and/or based off lies or deceit is mass murder, and you know damn well that’s true.

Greg…the Nazis had a Final Solution for the Jews and others. They started on their own German citizens. It was intentional, laws were passed to make sure the genocide was accomplished and the practice continued as they invaded other countries.

Civilians, unfortunately, get killed in wars when they are caught in battles and/or bombed.

That doesn’t answer the question though, when does abortion stop and murder begin?

Greg…abortion refers to the ending of a life which, to my knowledge, can only be done to a baby in a womb.

Here a definition: Any deliberate procedure that removes or induces the expulsion of a living or dead embryo or fetus.

The intention is to deprive the baby of life.

Definition of murder: the unlawful and malicious or premeditated killing of one human being by another.

 

[Agatina]

Buffalo,
Good work! Thank you for getting that O’Reilly video on this site. If I knew how to get that on ordinary e-mail I’d start passing it around the world.
If you know how to e-mail that why don’t you do it. People need to see this.
Blessed Mother please protect all your children.
In Jesus Name,
Agatina