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scipio337
Guest
“Proportionate reasons”, aka, Cognitive Dissonance.
Obama supported continuing to fund PBS, therefore, PBS > abortion. Or insert arbitrary reasoning .
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Obama supported continuing to fund PBS, therefore, PBS > abortion. Or insert arbitrary reasoning .
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LisaA
Guest
Gosnell isn’t the only late term abortionist with a shady past and current problems:
lifenews.com/2013/04/22/doctor-loses-license-severed-babys-limb-in-botched-abortion/
This is the fifth time that Pendergraft’s medical license has been suspended by the Florida Board of Medicine. He continues to operate five abortion clinics in Florida, primarily in the Orlando area.
As noted in the article, the reluctance of state boards to shut down such clinics despite multiple complaints and violations is a major reason for their continued existence.
Lisa
lifenews.com/2013/04/22/doctor-loses-license-severed-babys-limb-in-botched-abortion/
This is the fifth time that Pendergraft’s medical license has been suspended by the Florida Board of Medicine. He continues to operate five abortion clinics in Florida, primarily in the Orlando area.
As noted in the article, the reluctance of state boards to shut down such clinics despite multiple complaints and violations is a major reason for their continued existence.
Lisa
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livingwordunity
Guest
I’ve been in debates with some who have said that they know it’s murder and still don’t care as long as they still have their “right” to do it. It’s idolatry since “choice” is more important to them than the will of God.
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bellasbane
Guest
Disturbing indepth report from the PBS Newshour last night and really interesting final question:
Macabre Details Emerge in Murder Trial of Abortion Doctor Kermit Gosnell
JUDY WOODRUFF: Maryclaire Dale, one final question. We mentioned the dispute about the media’s focused attention. How much media attention has there been on this trial?
MARYCLAIRE DALE: Well, there was quite a bit when the grand jury report came out in 2011. That was almost a 300-page report. There was both local and national media.
And there has been coverage throughout the trial. There was more once there was some back-and-forth about whether enough media outlets were covering it. The one thing is, they’re – cameras are not allowed in courtrooms in the state of Pennsylvania. There’s a gag order in this trial which prevents lawyers from speaking outside the courtroom, so it is a bit tough for broadcasters to, you know, get the kind of footage that they typically might wish to get.
There are more people here now covering the trial. And so we will see from here on out.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Maryclaire Dale covering the trial of Dr. Kermit Gosnell in Philadelphia, thank you very much.
Macabre Details Emerge in Murder Trial of Abortion Doctor Kermit Gosnell
JUDY WOODRUFF: Maryclaire Dale, one final question. We mentioned the dispute about the media’s focused attention. How much media attention has there been on this trial?
MARYCLAIRE DALE: Well, there was quite a bit when the grand jury report came out in 2011. That was almost a 300-page report. There was both local and national media.
And there has been coverage throughout the trial. There was more once there was some back-and-forth about whether enough media outlets were covering it. The one thing is, they’re – cameras are not allowed in courtrooms in the state of Pennsylvania. There’s a gag order in this trial which prevents lawyers from speaking outside the courtroom, so it is a bit tough for broadcasters to, you know, get the kind of footage that they typically might wish to get.
There are more people here now covering the trial. And so we will see from here on out.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Maryclaire Dale covering the trial of Dr. Kermit Gosnell in Philadelphia, thank you very much.
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bellasbane
Guest
I found this article interesting for illustrating how both sides of the abortion issue condemn this man, but for very different reasons:
Abortion Doctor Kermit Gosnell Condemned by Pro-Abortion Rights Groups
"The case flared into headlines recently as anti-abortion rights groups complained that the media was not covering the case with any prominence and suggested it was because the media was liberal and did not want to expose the grisly details of late term abortions.
But groups that would normally defend late term abortions said that is not what they consider the Gosnell case to be about. These groups consider the trial to be about illegal abortions performed under dangerous circumstances.
Ilyse Hogue, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, said that Gosnell’s practice was clearly illegal and substandard, and demonstrated the conditions some women are willing to go through to secure an abortion.
“What Gosnell was doing, at least as described by the grand jury report, was illegal from top to bottom under current state and federal law, so the fact that he was able to continue operating and particularly preying on poor women and women who felt they had no other options is indicative of what happens when you drive abortion underground and to back alley providers,” she said.
“We think the Gosnell case is exactly why we need to keep abortion safe and legal and accessible to all people,” Hogue said."
**“who felt they had no other options…” - What a terrible an indictment of our society! **
This is exactly what Cardinal Seán was talking about when he said:
“We have consistently focused on the safety of the unborn child, while the pro-abortion activists focus on the woman in crisis. With almost one hundred abortions for every adoption, we have so much work to do. Obviously, we must never abandon our committment to the unborn child, a precious human being made in the image and likeness of God, but we must learn to focus more on the woman in crisis.”
youtube.com/watch?v=xECinskF3ik (mm:ss 19:39 - 20:11)
WHY do these women feel as if they have no other options and what must we do to change this?
Please visit:
vitaecaringfoundation.com/
feministsforlife.org/
Abortion Doctor Kermit Gosnell Condemned by Pro-Abortion Rights Groups
"The case flared into headlines recently as anti-abortion rights groups complained that the media was not covering the case with any prominence and suggested it was because the media was liberal and did not want to expose the grisly details of late term abortions.
But groups that would normally defend late term abortions said that is not what they consider the Gosnell case to be about. These groups consider the trial to be about illegal abortions performed under dangerous circumstances.
Ilyse Hogue, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, said that Gosnell’s practice was clearly illegal and substandard, and demonstrated the conditions some women are willing to go through to secure an abortion.
“What Gosnell was doing, at least as described by the grand jury report, was illegal from top to bottom under current state and federal law, so the fact that he was able to continue operating and particularly preying on poor women and women who felt they had no other options is indicative of what happens when you drive abortion underground and to back alley providers,” she said.
“We think the Gosnell case is exactly why we need to keep abortion safe and legal and accessible to all people,” Hogue said."
**“who felt they had no other options…” - What a terrible an indictment of our society! **
This is exactly what Cardinal Seán was talking about when he said:
“We have consistently focused on the safety of the unborn child, while the pro-abortion activists focus on the woman in crisis. With almost one hundred abortions for every adoption, we have so much work to do. Obviously, we must never abandon our committment to the unborn child, a precious human being made in the image and likeness of God, but we must learn to focus more on the woman in crisis.”
youtube.com/watch?v=xECinskF3ik (mm:ss 19:39 - 20:11)
WHY do these women feel as if they have no other options and what must we do to change this?
- How can we change the culture so that adoption is regarded as a more attractive alternative to abortion?
- How can we increase women’s awareness of the mix of public and private resources outlined in “Raising Kids on a Shoestring” and make sure these resources continue to be available through public and private funding.
- How can we encourage colleges and universities to be more “family friendly” to undergraduates? Young people should not have to choose between starting a family and continuing their education. Many universities do not even give students the option of “maternity leave” without penalty.
Please visit:
vitaecaringfoundation.com/
feministsforlife.org/
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SamH
Guest
I’d take anything Ilyse Hogue president of NARAL Pro-Choice America says with a small grain of salt. The fact her group pushes abortion as “THE OPTION” should tell you something. Given her position what does her group do to offer other options?
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BroomWagon
Guest
Pretty sure, it’s in the news that Obama is going to give a speech to Planned Parenthood soon. Unbeleivable in the light of recent events.
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LisaA
Guest
He’s attending a fundraising gala for the Merchants of Death. Speaking to his troops is part of the gig.
Lisa
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JMJSHJ
Guest
Does Cardinal Sean ever heard of Birthright or dozens of other organizations that help the Mothers facing an unwanted pregnancy? For him to buy the narrative that pro choice people help the Mother face an unwanted pregnancy is sad because they generally drop off interest after the abortion takes place. Don’t believe me, read the multiple testimonies women who have regretted having an abortion and how pro-choice/pro-abortion people have treated them after the abortion.
Good grief!
Mary_Gail_36
New member
The Naral representative means that there isn’t much competition for providers of late term abortion. She isn’t complaining that these women had no choice other than abortion. She’s complaining that too many restrictions on abortion limited the choices to just Gosnell.
I just did a google search"
For "alternatives for abortion:, the Yellow Pages of Philadelphia has **36 **entries,.
For crisis pregnancy centers you get:
paprolife.org/issues/pregnancy_help_centers.html#PHILADELPHIA
It took me 3 minutes.
Pennsylvania also has baby Moses laws where a baby can be left in a safe place and would be placed in adoption.
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LisaA
Guest
Look I agree that we must foster a culture of life and we must promote options. But here is the reality. The abortion lobby because of the mass amount of money provided by you and me through our tax dollars PROMOTES ABORTION. Look at the statistics…350000 abortions per year from Planned Parenthood and something like 3000 adoption referrals. Do the math, follow the money.
I heard an interview with a woman who lived literally across the street from Gosnell’s clinic which purports to be a “family” clinic with a little graphic of a man, woman and child on the sign. Thinking this was a low income clinic who could help a friend with a pregnancy issue, she went with the friend to the clinic. After a short interview, when the Gosnell clinic worker learned she did NOT want to terminate, she was told “we can do nothing for you.”
Planned Parenthood and its Abortion Lobby fight tooth and nail even the slightest restrictions, requirements, inspections and standards for these clinics. They fight a requirement for a waiting period, they fight sonograms or having the woman given the option to look at their baby.
Women come into something called a “woman’s clinic” thinking they are getting healthcare but they are pushed into abortion. If you have read some of the testimony, there are several women who said they didn’t want abortions but were drugged and their child had been aborted when they awoke. Gosnell claimed that “this is what I would do for my own daughter…”
Again I agree, women SHOULD be given options but the Abortion Provider megalith does NOT allow this to occur. THEY are to blame, not the pro life movement, not the desperate mothers.
I simply cannot fathom a woman waiting until she is six months pregnant to “decide” she needs an abortion. Clearly she has options but between the media which blacks out, and ignores literally hundreds of thousands in the March for Life, fights crisis pregnancy centers, demonizes sidewalk counsellors, and the government that sues pro life groups and pro life activists, rarely are these options provided to women in crisis.
Abortion has become birth control, antiseptic, detached and behind closed doors. Now we’ve opened the doors and the sunshine has revealed the evil within.
Lisa
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bellasbane
Guest
Well, that’s one way to deflect attention away from my point about society. Are you saying that there are no women-centered options conservatives can embrace beyond passing laws that mandate medically unnecessary vaginal probes to shame and humiliate women seeking abortions? I don’t think that is what Cardinal Seán meant when he said “we must learn to focus more on the woman in crisis”.
Cardinal Seán seems to think people like Ilyse Hogue are sincere in their belief that abortion offers women the best solution to a crisis pregnancy given that there are no other options.. However, it is false to suggest that NARAL wants abortion to be the ONLY alternative:
Hogue says one of her goals as NARAL president is to push for a “bill of women’s rights,” in addition to other pieces of state legislation to expand women’s access and choices. For instance, NARAL could look at a state like Oregon, which hasn’t seen any abortion restrictions in decades, and see what kind of pro-choice bills the legislature is willing to pass there.
“What we need to do as a choice movement is say, ‘We’re going to be here for you in what might be one of the hardest decisions you ever have to make, and make sure you have access to that decision.’ But guess what? That’s not where our responsibility stops," she said. "We’re going be here for you when you choose to have a child, whether that means you want fertility treatment to be able to have that child, or whether that means we can do a lot better for working mothers. So that’s the idea behind what a bill of women’s rights might look like.”
huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/14/ilyse-hogue-new-naral-pre_n_2689073.html
If they are sincerely going to advocate to improve the lives of women who choose to have a child, I see no reason to oppose that aspect of their mission. I also see no reason not to get out in front of them on this point and make it a pro-life issue along with encouraging and celebrating the women who choose adoption.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
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qui_est_ce
Guest
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qui_est_ce
Guest
These are not done to “shame and humiliate” women. They are there to provide full disclosure.
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bellasbane
Guest
You make it sound as if there is no Pro-Life lobby or that it has no clout. However, if that were true, how do you explain the fact that the media is now covering this case?Look I agree that we must foster a culture of life and we must promote options. But here is the reality. The abortion lobby because of the mass amount of money provided by you and me through our tax dollars PROMOTES ABORTION. Look at the statistics…350000 abortions per year from Planned Parenthood and something like 3000 adoption referrals. Do the math, follow the money.
I heard an interview with a woman who lived literally across the street from Gosnell’s clinic which purports to be a “family” clinic with a little graphic of a man, woman and child on the sign. Thinking this was a low income clinic who could help a friend with a pregnancy issue, she went with the friend to the clinic. After a short interview, when the Gosnell clinic worker learned she did NOT want to terminate, she was told “we can do nothing for you.”
Planned Parenthood and its Abortion Lobby fight tooth and nail even the slightest restrictions, requirements, inspections and standards for these clinics. They fight a requirement for a waiting period, they fight sonograms or having the woman given the option to look at their baby.
Women come into something called a “woman’s clinic” thinking they are getting healthcare but they are pushed into abortion. If you have read some of the testimony, there are several women who said they didn’t want abortions but were drugged and their child had been aborted when they awoke. Gosnell claimed that “this is what I would do for my own daughter…”
Again I agree, women SHOULD be given options but the Abortion Provider megalith does NOT allow this to occur. THEY are to blame, not the pro life movement, not the desperate mothers.
I simply cannot fathom a woman waiting until she is six months pregnant to “decide” she needs an abortion. Clearly she has options but between the media which blacks out, and ignores literally hundreds of thousands in the March for Life, fights crisis pregnancy centers, demonizes sidewalk counsellors, and the government that sues pro life groups and pro life activists, rarely are these options provided to women in crisis.
Abortion has become birth control, antiseptic, detached and behind closed doors. Now we’ve opened the doors and the sunshine has revealed the evil within.
Lisa
The mission of the Vitae Foundation is to counter the social messaging of pro-abortion groups. You can donate to them if you want to support getting the message out.
If you are going to argue, you have to argue honestly or people will tune you out for trying to deceive them. The reality is that the “restrictions and standards” you mention are not slight, but targeted “trap laws” specifically designed to shut down abortion clinics. Waiting periods and sonograms are fine, but they should be voluntary and not mandated by the state and should not include vaginal probes. They should also be free.
I don’t know who the women were that went to this clinic, but they must have been really desperate for some reason. We need to offer them a better option.
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bellasbane
Guest
While a doctor may be required to provide the option of full disclosure, the patient isn’t forced to accept it. If the intention were not to shame or humiliate, then women should be given the option of a free sonogram - paid for by the state.
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SamH
Guest
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