Abortion Doctor's Murder Trial Opens

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I need to launch off this point by Schatzl. You say that clinics are unsterile, unsafe, disgusting places. I’ve never been in one and will never set foot in one. Even if they are clean, well-maintained, with comforting music and photos of bucolic scenes, and attended by staff of the most gentle bedside manner, what occurs therein remains evil.
This goes to show us that abortion is truly evil. . I think these clinics should be shut down for good. All of them. Planned Parenthood should be shut down, their members tried and arrested. :mad:
It came out in court that Gosnell’s clinics had not been inspected for 17 years. The National Abortion Federation conducted its own inspection of the clinics and denied Gosnell membership in the Federation, but apparently did nothing more to protect the health of women being served at the clinic. That’s astonishing - this was a practice that took care of the health of thousands of patients and performed routine surgical procedures. During the trial the defense complained that Gosnell shouldn’t be held up to “Mayo Clinic” standards, and yet if we insist upon equal access to care then a county public health clinic should be as clean as a hospital room, if not better. Otherwise isn’t that a form of discrimination against the poor?

Penn’s Governor Tom Corbett signed SB 173 in Dec 2011, which brought up standard for abortion clinics to the same level as ambulatory or outpatient surgical clinics. Planned Parenthood complained that clinics are clean enough and that this is a barrier to women’s health:

phillytrib.com/newsarticles/item/2093-abortion-clinics-wary-of-new-pa-law.html

The law has gone into effect, and Planned Parenthood spent $450k upgrading two facilities to acceptable standards:

npr.org/2013/03/28/175459510/pennsylvania-tightens-abortion-rules-following-clinic-deaths

My wife and I know 12 friends this year who are expecting children. We pray for each by name every night. Some of them have lost babies in the past. Last year a friend of ours, who lost her 5-year-old son, had her second baby. The pain that these friends have gone through, and the joy they feel at welcoming this new life, is a completely distinct reality from that posed by abortion.

I cannot imagine anyone congratulating a mother on choosing abortion. I don’t think any do. I cannot think there is any happiness in agitating for the right to procure one, in the worst of circumstances, or even on demand. Abortions do not come out of happy situations. Nonetheless, it is the death of a child.

Every pregnancy, even those that end in miscarriage, has as its purpose the creation, growth and birth of a human child. That is the nature of the mechanism. There is no other biological purpose to a pregnancy. We eat because we are hungry, we crave nourishment, we enjoy the taste of something, or to satisfy an emotional comfort. But the sole reason women’s bodies get pregnant is to have a baby.

And yet, to read the testimony of the women who worked in this clinic, it is as though they did not expect to see a human being in their hands, a baby in a trash bag, a child in his brief few seconds of life. How haunted they must be, and yet they kept working.

My prayer is that he is found guilty on all counts, but I know that’s not likely here. I think the “corrupt organization” charges are the most likely to stick, considering the volume of pills his staff distributed in an area very aware of painkiller addiction.

My fear is that, at the end of the trial, it will not be about abortion. In some ways it cannot be - if Dr. Gosnell is found guilty of late term abortions, NARAL and PP will sue the State, arguing that term restrictions are unconstitutional, and they may win.

So I fear that if Dr. Gosnell is found guilty, some will say it was because he erred in judgement and a patient died. Others will say he was convicted of the death of the patient because the jury was horrified by the abortion clinic. But abortion will continue in those clean, sanitary, expensive rooms.
 
Penn’s Governor Tom Corbett signed SB 173 in Dec 2011, which brought up standard for abortion clinics to the same level as ambulatory or outpatient surgical clinics. Planned Parenthood complained that clinics are clean enough and that this is a barrier to women’s health:
It is worth pausing over this: the champions of “women;s health” regard having to keep clinics that treat only women up to, you know, contemporary medical standards is a barrier to women’s health…
 
I need to launch off this point by Schatzl. You say that clinics are unsterile, unsafe, disgusting places. I’ve never been in one and will never set foot in one. Even if they are clean, well-maintained, with comforting music and photos of bucolic scenes, and attended by staff of the most gentle bedside manner, what occurs therein remains evil.

It came out in court that Gosnell’s clinics had not been inspected for 17 years. The National Abortion Federation conducted its own inspection of the clinics and denied Gosnell membership in the Federation, but apparently did nothing more to protect the health of women being served at the clinic. That’s astonishing - this was a practice that took care of the health of thousands of patients and performed routine surgical procedures. During the trial the defense complained that Gosnell shouldn’t be held up to “Mayo Clinic” standards, and yet if we insist upon equal access to care then a county public health clinic should be as clean as a hospital room, if not better. Otherwise isn’t that a form of discrimination against the poor?

Penn’s Governor Tom Corbett signed SB 173 in Dec 2011, which brought up standard for abortion clinics to the same level as ambulatory or outpatient surgical clinics. Planned Parenthood complained that clinics are clean enough and that this is a barrier to women’s health:

phillytrib.com/newsarticles/item/2093-abortion-clinics-wary-of-new-pa-law.html

The law has gone into effect, and Planned Parenthood spent $450k upgrading two facilities to acceptable standards:

npr.org/2013/03/28/175459510/pennsylvania-tightens-abortion-rules-following-clinic-deaths

My wife and I know 12 friends this year who are expecting children. We pray for each by name every night. Some of them have lost babies in the past. Last year a friend of ours, who lost her 5-year-old son, had her second baby. The pain that these friends have gone through, and the joy they feel at welcoming this new life, is a completely distinct reality from that posed by abortion.

I cannot imagine anyone congratulating a mother on choosing abortion. I don’t think any do. I cannot think there is any happiness in agitating for the right to procure one, in the worst of circumstances, or even on demand. Abortions do not come out of happy situations. Nonetheless, it is the death of a child.

Every pregnancy, even those that end in miscarriage, has as its purpose the creation, growth and birth of a human child. That is the nature of the mechanism. There is no other biological purpose to a pregnancy. We eat because we are hungry, we crave nourishment, we enjoy the taste of something, or to satisfy an emotional comfort. But the sole reason women’s bodies get pregnant is to have a baby.

And yet, to read the testimony of the women who worked in this clinic, it is as though they did not expect to see a human being in their hands, a baby in a trash bag, a child in his brief few seconds of life. How haunted they must be, and yet they kept working.

My prayer is that he is found guilty on all counts, but I know that’s not likely here. I think the “corrupt organization” charges are the most likely to stick, considering the volume of pills his staff distributed in an area very aware of painkiller addiction.

My fear is that, at the end of the trial, it will not be about abortion. In some ways it cannot be - if Dr. Gosnell is found guilty of late term abortions, NARAL and PP will sue the State, arguing that term restrictions are unconstitutional, and they may win.

So I fear that if Dr. Gosnell is found guilty, some will say it was because he erred in judgement and a patient died. Others will say he was convicted of the death of the patient because the jury was horrified by the abortion clinic. But abortion will continue in those clean, sanitary, expensive rooms.
Normal clinics are good. I meant the abortion clinics. I thought I made that clear. Sorry if I didnt.
 
Normal clinics are good. I meant the abortion clinics. I thought I made that clear. Sorry if I didnt.
Normal clinics do not kill at least half of their patients–I don’t think anyone here would fail to notice that difference.
 
Normal clinics are good. I meant the abortion clinics. I thought I made that clear. Sorry if I didnt.
Schatzl, I took you to mean abortion clinics, not just public health facilities or primary care clinics.
Normal clinics do not kill at least half of their patients–I don’t think anyone here would fail to notice that difference.
If I was unclear it’s my own fault.I meant to say that abortion clinics were unclean - at least in this case (and it’s heavily documented as such).
 
“I only do what I’m told to do,” she told the court. “What I was told to do was snip their neck.”

WOW…:eek:
“The I was only following orders” defence didn’t work out too well at the Nuremberg War
Crimes trial. 😦
 
Here’s a link to a web sight with lots of info about the Gosnell case. 3801 Lancaster was the abortion clinics street address. The film on the website is very disturbing and hard to watch.

3801lancaster.com/
 
**I’d give Kermit Gosnell and all abortionists, lifetime behind bars, NO PAROLE whatsoever. I would contruct working camp prisons, where the prisoner would be forced to atone for his crimes through physical labor. I would abolish the death penalty, but I would establish working camp prisons, with lifetime sentences. They would learn rather quick, that anyone who wants to murder children for a living, can serve time behind stone walls and barbed wire. :mad: **
 
Let’s work to end abortion in this world by whatever means Love provides. Raise your daughters to respect their bodies, and your sons to respect women. Write your Senators. Volunteer at maternity homes and domestic shelters. Open your heart to those in need. Teach constantly that life is worth giving to a child and support those who choose Life.

As just as it sounds, let’s guard against the desire to inflict tremendous punishment on those who murder children:
**I’d give Kermit Gosnell and all abortionists, lifetime behind bars, NO PAROLE whatsoever. I would contruct working camp prisons, where the prisoner would be forced to atone for his crimes through physical labor. I would abolish the death penalty, but I would establish working camp prisons, with lifetime sentences. They would learn rather quick, that anyone who wants to murder children for a living, can serve time behind stone walls and barbed wire. :mad: **
we must remember, and trust in the Lord’s Judgment, that what awaits an abortionist in the life to come is unutterably horrific - “It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble” (Lk 17:4). If such is the penalty for causing a little one to stumble, what horror awaits the one who kills a child?

Rev 21:8
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Fill your heart with sorrow for the lost children, love for the broken, and pray the Lord turns our wrath at these legal-murderers into righteous action.
 
Let’s work to end abortion in this world by whatever means Love provides. Raise your daughters to respect their bodies, and your sons to respect women. Write your Senators. Volunteer at maternity homes and domestic shelters. Open your heart to those in need. Teach constantly that life is worth giving to a child and support those who choose Life.

As just as it sounds, let’s guard against the desire to inflict tremendous punishment on those who murder children:

we must remember, and trust in the Lord’s Judgment, that what awaits an abortionist in the life to come is unutterably horrific - “It would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble” (Lk 17:4). If such is the penalty for causing a little one to stumble, what horror awaits the one who kills a child?

Rev 21:8
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Fill your heart with sorrow for the lost children, love for the broken, and pray the Lord turns our wrath at these legal-murderers into righteous action.
**I know, but its so hard. I can let things fly on my concern. However, when I see injustice like this, I have control, but it takes a lot of composure to mantain such control over anger in such an injust situation. Human injustice has always been able to take my blood pressure from mellow (I am a very affable, likeable, easygoing, funny and casual kind of guy) to white hot flaming anger. I rarely get angry, and my temper is very easy tempered. However when I come into contact with stories like these, My “fuse” blows and I sometimes start shaking with anger. I never wish death upon these people because its sinful. I can only pray that the LORD will take them and gently hold them in the palm of HIS wounded hand, allowing them to feel the wounds that HE suffered for them, so that they may convert. A loss of a soul, even one as cruel as Kermit’s, is a tragic and frightening affair. **
 
This stomach-turning to me, but needs to be pointed out:

Huffpo Editiorial: The Questions No One Is Asking About the Kermit Gosnell Case

huffingtonpost.com/kate-michelman/kermit-gosnell-abortion_b_2924348.html

Written by a former NARAL president.

Basically, it blames the pro-life community and conservatives.
Evidence suggests that a number of factors influenced a woman’s decision to seek care at Gosnell’s clinic: Medicaid’s refusal to provide insurance coverage for most abortions; the scarcity of abortion providers in Pennsylvania (and across the nation); the fear of violence perpetrated by protestors at clinics, and the right-wing culture that has so stigmatized abortion that many think it is still illegal 40 years after Roe v. Wade…
Unfortunately, politicians in Congress and in Harrisburg continue to make it more and more burdensome for women to get safe abortions. Since 1976, Congress has annually re-authorized the Hyde Amendment, which bans federal Medicaid coverage of abortion care except in cases of rape, incest, or if the pregnant woman’s life is endangered. Pennsylvania law likewise restricts any state Medicaid money from funding the procedure except in those three rare circumstances (rape, incest, and threat to the woman’s life),…
Reputable, careful providers of high quality abortion care are under attack. As a result of an orchestrated campaign of harassment, intimidation and violence against individual doctors and freestanding women’s clinics by domestic terrorist organizations like the Army of God and Operation Rescue, the number of abortion providers in the United States declined 38 percent between 1982 and 2005. In Pennsylvania, there is not a single freestanding abortion provider in the hundreds of miles between Pittsburgh and Harrisburg…
To compound the provider shortage problem, the Pennsylvania legislature passed a new law in 2011 modeled after a bill on the wish list of the National Right To Life Committee: mandating that the remaining handful of abortion providers come into compliance with volumes of costly regulations designed for ambulatory surgical facilities where much more complex surgeries take place. Today, there are just 13 freestanding providers of surgical abortion care in Pennsylvania, down from 22 two years ago.
It’s all YOUR fault, didn’t you know? The answer is MORE abortion, and no restrictions on the type of facilities where they are performed (which may have actually shut Gosnell down).

Just sickening!! When will things change in this country?
 
This stomach-turning to me, but needs to be pointed out:
Huffpo Editiorial: The Questions No One Is Asking About the Kermit Gosnell Case
huffingtonpost.com/kate-michelman/kermit-gosnell-abortion_b_2924348.html
Written by a former NARAL president.
May the Lord strike her with sorrow and remorse, and bring her to conversion.

I offer some counter-points:
  1. Decline in abortions (as one comment pointed out) probably includes the approval of morning-after pills, and wider adoption of birth control in general, both of which are goals of NARAL, aren’t they?
  1. NARAL fought against inspections at abortion clinics, and the website still laments that South Carolina will conduct unannounced inspections at clinics in that state.
  2. Another pro-choice group, the National Abortion Federation, publishes its own guidelines on abortion clinic cleanliness. Members must submit to an inspection before membership - Kermit Gosnell’s clinic did and it failed the inspection. NAF did nothing further, despite noting that patients under sedation were not monitored with an oximeter, which is a standard of care to which Pennsylvania State law now holds abortion providers up to.
  3. According to the Grand Jury report in this case, Pennsylvania stopped doing inspections in 1993 under political pressure. And yet NARAL laments that inspections are forcing the closure of facilities, which forces women to accept unsanitary conditions.
  4. It is discrimination against the poor to allow any form of health care clinic to operate in unsafe conditions. If legislators were to mandate higher standards of health care for people with insurance than for those without, the cries of foul play would go up coast-to-coast. Yet that’s essentially the status quo when abortion clinics are not to be held to the same standards of care.
  5. NARAL says that protesters frighten women away from some clinics and that’s why they go to places like Gosnell’s. I think the best solution, then, would be for protesters to equally protest all abortion clinics and facilities, so that the level of intimidation is equal across all facilities.
  6. NARAL laments that there are parts of Pennsylvania where an abortion doctor cannot be found for 100 miles. Yet the women Gosnell served didn’t come from rural Lancaster County but a train ride away, and had a choice of seven or 8 facilities in the area. The women came for the “cheapest” abortion provider. I agree these women were in desperate situations - would that desperation have been less without protesters at all?
 
Photo: empty ‘reserved media seating’ at abortion doc Gosnell’s murder trial
The picture above, for what it’s worth, is of the reserved media seats at the Gosnell trial. It was taken by JD Mullane, a news writer and columnist for the Bucks County Courier Times, The Intel and the Burlington County (NJ) Times. He says:
Sat through a full day of testimony at the Kermitt Gosnell trial today. It is beyond the most morbid Hollywood horror. It will change you.
I was surprised by the picture and asked “really?” He responded “Local press was there, Inky, PhillyMag, NBC10 blogger. Court staff told me nobody else has shown up.”
ADDED: There is a second abortion clinic horror story in Delaware the media are also ignoring.
Wikipedia Considers Deleting Entry Regarding Kermit Gosnell

#Gosnell is trending on twitter
 
Photo: empty ‘reserved media seating’ at abortion doc Gosnell’s murder trial
The picture above, for what it’s worth, is of the reserved media seats at the Gosnell trial. It was taken by JD Mullane, a news writer and columnist for the Bucks County Courier Times, The Intel and the Burlington County (NJ) Times. He says:
Sat through a full day of testimony at the Kermitt Gosnell trial today. It is beyond the most morbid Hollywood horror. It will change you.
I was surprised by the picture and asked “really?” He responded “Local press was there, Inky, PhillyMag, NBC10 blogger. Court staff told me nobody else has shown up.”
ADDED: There is a second abortion clinic horror story in Delaware the media are also ignoring.
Wikipedia Considers Deleting Entry Regarding Kermit Gosnell

#Gosnell is trending on twitter
 
Why would he protect their life? He’s already said he would have no problem killing his own grandchildren.
This is inflammatory. Whether we agree or disagree about whether the choice should exist, with very rare exception, no one makes the choice lightly, and those that choose to allow others to choose, don’t do so with a “no problem” perspective or attitude.

I wish all the money and energy spent attacking those who choose differently, was spent helping to keep the born alive and healthy.

We do nothing helpful by attacking others.
 
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