Abortion: For the good of the baby?

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Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
 
Possible responses:
  1. Mentally retarded people don’t suffer any more than the rest of us. In fact, for whatever reason, many of the mentally retarded (depending in part, I suppose, on the degree of retardation) seem to me to be happier than the average Joe on the street.
Perhaps there is something to “ignorance is bliss”. Kind of like children, they don’t have all that much to think about and on the whole seem happier than most adults in this world.

So just what is “suffering”?
  1. To consider someone with a birth defect as “suffering”, methinks, is to lessen their human status, de-humanize them. Who says one suffers if they only have, say, one arm or are born without legs. The very few people that I’ve met with such defects again, are to me just as content as the rest of us.
  2. It’s sort of a Nazi mentality, methinks, to think about destroying “imperfect” people. “Cripples” went to the camps and gas chambers along with the Jews, criminals and others.
  3. Not to mention that it’s not our business to play God, deciding who is “suffering” and who is not. Can you imagine the Government making such decisions for us?? :eek: Actually, we’re not too far away from that. Abortion on demand comes close…very close, and is responsible for killing ***“normal” ***babies.
 
Abortion is never okay, never justified. It is the killing of a person. That baby was created in the image and likeness of God, no matter the disability. How can killing the baby be in it’s best interest? Ultrasounds can be wrong and then you would have the death of a perfectly healthy baby…

Perhaps your Dad needs to read about people with disabilities who are perfectly happy–Tony Melendez for instance:
tonymelendez.com/English/Welcome.html
 
Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
Does your Dad believe that a retarded child does not have any worth.

What about a disability

What about Down Syndrome

What about the wrong sex

hair color

possibility of hereditary deases

Who can rate a persons worth or decided weither they live or die

you or me I think not
 
Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
Who makes the decision? Did not God make an eternal decision by causing the conception in the first place? What God has joined together, let not man put asunder. Divorce has become abortion in our corrupt generation.
 
Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
We all suffer after we’re born. It’s part of the human condition. Human life has great value, even humans with lower i.q.'s or missing body parts. To judge people as" less worthy of life" due to mental or physical challenges, places us all at risk should we suffer from a serious injury.
 
Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
My daughter is happy that I’m her father and your Dad isn’t.
 
How about the fact that we all strive to get to Heaven and these persons’s sufferings will probably make it easier for them to obtain Heaven. Why would anyone be better off not existing then having even the worst of lives and ultimately ending up living eternally happy in Heaven?

If the argument is that God will show mercy and the aborted baby then goes straight to Heaven without having to suffer. First of all, we can only trust in God’s mercy and do not know this for sure. And second of all, the baby might get to go straight to Heaven but now his/her mother is seriously jeapordizing her soul and potentially setting herself up for a lot of misery in her life.
 
As a disabled person who suffers every day, I am soooo happy your friend was not my parent.
 
Jesus suffered plenty. All the Apostles and martyrs on whose blood our faith is founded suffered plenty. Their suffering has brought about our salvation and spiritual enrichment in countless other ways.

Imagine if Mary had decided to abort HIM because she knew He was going to suffer! Imagine if THEIR parents had aborted THEM because they were going to suffer! What an incalculable loss that would’ve been.
 
In both abortion and euthanasia, when a person says they don’t want another to suffer, they usually mean that they don’t want to watch the other one suffer.
 
He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
I would respond that the logic is flawed. If you hold to the belief that abortion is justified in such cases, you must also hold the belief, put into practice by the Nazis, that living persons outside the womb, no matter what their age, minutes, days, or years, may be put to death by someone–family member, doctor, government–who decrees their disability is too severe, causing them to suffer, any excuse, or none. You give the person absolutely no choice on whether or not he lives, so you of course may not call yourself “pro-choice” if you take this stance. (I am using you in the general not particular sense).
 
I think sometimes there should be a limited case for abortion: rape, downs, incest, deformity, handicapped parents, crack mommy, alcoholic mommy, IVT with 10 eggs that “take”, can be proven will kill mommy during birth…

Sometimes I get real close to thinking maybe there is an exception… but in the end I continue to fall on the side of no exceptions. If it was necessary to get a national pro-life law I would compromise with small exception.
 
WOW… I have to respond to this…

I detest abortion, though I accept the Church’s position that actions taken to protect the mother’s life, and are not intended to harm the fetus are acceptable…

I have to say this:

My “boss” a lady, and a real classy lady…has a little girl with Downs Syndrome…and the little girl is a beauty, and a sweetheart! I guess mom could have made a choice given medical testing and technology today, but she had the little girl, and if ever there was a ray of sunshine…its this little girl!

I have been in fast food restaurants where the counter workers are “kids” with Downs Syndrome…and I have to tell you… they are probably the best and sharpest workers I have ever seen! They are always happy or pleasant, and they do their jobs well!

I am older than some might think… I’m 58 pushing 59 real fast, aaaaarrrrghhhhh… time flies, but I digress… When I was a young fellow (boy) in Germany…(Dad in Army) we went to Bertesgarten… and stayed at a hotel there…we met with a family that my parents knew…their daughter was a “Thalidomide baby”.
This young lady was born without arms… But I have to tell you, she was NOT handicapped…she took care of herself, and did everything any “normal” person did…and probably did some things better. We got to be good friends…and I have to tell you, she could swim like a “dolphin”…

I think that rationalizing an abortion “for the good of the child” is a “misnomer”…the rationalizing is for the “convenience of the parent”…so as to not be inconvenienced with a burden.

I am also reminded of a young lady that worked for a doctor that I did business with… She had been grievously injured in a car accident when she was pregnant…and her daughter was born “profoundly handicapped”…but was is amazing is that this young woman has taken great pride in her daughter and loves her more than anything else in the world… The young lady would be a great catch for any man…but according to her…suitors see her daughter and “run for cover”… But she has it together, and she loves her little girl.

God bless the mothers that do what is right!!~~!!
 
No offence to your dad, but who is he to determine who’s going to suffer, who’s perfect?

I know where he’s coming from as a “devil’s advocate” kind of way, but seriously, if there’s any “excuse” for abortion that just right royally ticks me off, its this one. Its so morally repugnant. As others have mentioned, it reaks of nazism!

Here’s a story - its true and was written by a OB/GYN, but i’vce shortened it.

Two babies were born one night. ONe was a healthy baby boy who’s parents were over joyed and celebrated! They thanked me and took their son home to be loved and cherished.

The othe baby was a girl with Downs Syndrome. The family was very said and mourned for teh perfect child they wouldn’t have. They took their baby home but with sorrow shame and sadness.

When the girl grew up, she cared for her dying mother, worked hard and bought joy into the lives of everyone around her.

WHen the boy grew up, he was responsibile for the genocide of over six million people - his name was Hitler.​

As it is, if your father, or anyone, is going to say that its in the baby’s best interest to be aborted then to be born, well, we better show mercy to those babies who slipped through the gap of ultrasound and “abort” them while they’re outside the wound.

What next? Should we start sterilising “human weeds” as Margaret Sanger said of the mentally retarded, blacks and poor? Sanger being the founder of Unplanned Parenthood, a woman who sympathisesd with the Nazis and who thougth Hitler had the right idea?

Aborting for reasons of “defect” is absolutely disgusting. Who the hell is anyone of us to decide who’s not perfect? Will insurance companies then step in? Forcing abortions on women who’s children are found to be “defective”? Already abortionists are using “cleft palate” as a “defect” to be given Partial Birth Abortion… cleft palate can be solved with a surgery or two.

There can’t be any grey areas, either we respect life at conception and don’t allow abortion for any reason, or we let little “exceptions” niggle their way in. If we use a cirucmstance like rape, or an event like foetal defect to remove the humanity of the unborn, to give an excuse to kill them, then all cirumstances and excuses must be allowed. The unborn is either human and worthy of protection, or it isn’t.

Seriously, where will it end? What dispicable little “justification” will those pro-choice to kill unborn children come up with next?
 
Me and my dad were having a little discussion. And he, like me, is catholic. So we know the Catholic view on abortion. Long story short…

He said that the only case he would think abortin is right is if it’s for the good of the baby. i.e. if the baby would come out mentally retarded, or comes out with something missing (arm, leg, etc)
Basicly if the baby would suffer after it was born.

How would yall respond to this???
I support abortion, but I think this is a very slippery slope we tread with this argument. Quality of life arguments alway’s are.

I would agree, if there is absolutely no way the infant could survive. IE, the child is born without a brain(it has happened) and lasts a matter of hours or it is a ectopic pregnancy you could use this argument

But it falls short as a case for abortion, in almost every circumstance.

While I am an athiest, some-one once asked me, if I would have preferred to be born at all, knowing I would no longer exist. I thought about it…quite a bit. At the end of the day, if in some way I was given a choice to exist or not, knowing I would no longer…I would still say…give me my 5 minutes of life.

It’s not a good argument. Especially if it’s going to be about a child being born without an arm or something minor such as that. The abortion debate really struggles around the issue of quality of life for both anti-choice and pro-choice participants(yes I used those words deliberately 😃 ). If we are to define life in any meaningful way as a species(regardless of religion) we cannot define it by the amount of suffering it endures. It’s a really, really hard decision.

If I see a pair of cojoined twins, where there is 1 body and 2 heads, there are two very real personalities involved. I wonder, if they would be better off without this dreadful and confusing existance. And yet…when you see and know these people, there is alway’s something special about them.

I support abortion, but unless it’s the rarest of exceptions(which I do think we need to decide upon), then no. This argument, falls down fast. Since I don’t believe in God, I think that’s probably saying a lot for this particular argument.

Cheers
 
As a disabled person who suffers every day, I am soooo happy your friend was not my parent.
This is really what the debate is around.

Once the human being know’s they exist…they would almost alway’s choose it.
 
Does your Dad believe that a retarded child does not have any worth.

What about a disability

What about Down Syndrome

What about the wrong sex

hair color

possibility of hereditary deases

Who can rate a persons worth or decided weither they live or die

you or me I think not
No he doesn’t think they are any less than you or me… but i guess he has falsse compassion.🤷
 
The life belongs to God. The soul belongs to God. God makes the ultimate judgement. Place your trust, soul and life in the Truth. Debating for the case of “for the good of the baby” is to reject the trust, grace and Truth of God.

Learn your faith. Bring Truth to those who do not have it.

To the Bishops
Priests and Deacons
Men and Women religious
lay Faithful
and all People of Good Will
on the Value and Inviolability
of Human Life

If you desire Truth it is found here:

vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/__PQ.HTM

“Your eyes beheld my unformed substance” (Ps 139:16): the unspeakable crime of abortion

ex cathedra

The Infallible Word of The Vicar Of Christ.
 
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