Abortion has been made illegal! What happens now?

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adamsapple said:
Not sure how my opinion goes against the Church’s teaching. Can you please point that out?

It’s a free country, you can do what you want with your kids. I went to Catholic school right through grad school. I intend to make that available to my three children. If I had 6 or 9 children it wouldn’t be possible. What don’t you see about parental responsibility??
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What happens if at some point you are only able to send two of your children to Catholic school? What will happen to the third?
 
demol said:
What happens if at some point you are only able to send two of your children to Catholic school? What will happen to the third?
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What happens if the whole world falls apart and you can’t put food on the table???
This is about planning, not about speculation.
 
adamsapple said:
Not sure how my opinion goes against the Church’s teaching. Can you please point that out?

It’s a free country, you can do what you want with your kids. I went to Catholic school right through grad school. I intend to make that available to my three children. If I had 6 or 9 children it wouldn’t be possible. What don’t you see about parental responsibility??
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Will I went to public school all the way through k - BS and that has to do with what?

The point is telling God, sorry but I know you might want me to have 6-8 kids, BUT the way I see it Catholic schools are way to expensive and so instead of doing what you want I will opt for maybe two, since sending those children you send me to Catholic school is way more important than listening to you.

Obviously all those years of Catholic schools didn’t really teach you that you need to open to God’s plan and not make up your own.
 
adamsapple said:
What happens if the whole world falls apart and you can’t put food on the table???
This is about planning, not about speculation.
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All the planning in the world cannot account to what will happen. Why don’t you let God lead you and that way you can spend your time following Him with out all the distractions.
 
feargalmac said:
Here in Ireland abortion is illegal.

Actually, that is not completely correct. In theory, abortion is legal in Ireland if there is a risk to the life of the woman. A provision exists in the Irish constitution to allow the Irish Parliament to legislate on this. However no political party has risked it, and in the meantime, while it is legal in theory, the body that holds medical licences in Ireland considers it malpractice for any doctor to perform an abortion
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adamsapple said:
What happens if the whole world falls apart and you can’t put food on the table???
This is about planning, not about speculation.
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If you can plan for two, you can plan for four, or you can plan for 8…planning is not some sort of guarantee, as others have explained to you. I believe there’s a scripture, a parable of Jesus, some guy who plans and builds to store up for himself, and then says something to the effect of, “Take it easy, now, Self! You’ve got it all!” And “Self” dies that night. All the planning in the world did him no good.

Over the summer, I built myself a big pantry in the garage. It is designed so I can bulk shop and save money in the long run. I have canned goods’ shelves, a chest freezer, drawers with dried food packets, an extra fridge. What happens if the power goes out and my generator unit isn’t installed yet? What happens if the garage burns down? Will we all starve? Does that mean I have to kill my younger two children? Is a little deprivation in the short term going to mean they have to give up their lives in the long term? What it the expenses get so bad they have to go to public school, or be home educated? See, it’s a non-issue.

I am the eldest of 7. My youngest brother was born when I was 19. At 51, while there are certainly days I would tell you that I can name candidates out of my sibling group to be eliminated, the world would really NOT be better without each of them. The techs (coder, hardware and network), the carpenter, the executive assistant, even the MSW, all contribute to Society.

And that youngest makes a very good living as a musician and music teacher.

Our sibling group did not go to Catholic school all the time. I went to a magnet high school. One year, we couldn’t afford anything, and we all went to public school. Two of my brothers went to alternative high schools. Further, in most Catholic schools, there is a break in tuition after the first or second child. And I used all three sources for my children, including home education, something you neglected (Perhaps you don’t know much about it).

I see you don’t list yourself in your profile as having the experience of children to raise, and I see you don’t list yourself as belonging to any ecclesial community. Perhaps we can pray for you, that you can understand how your argument has holes.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
We have fought, campaigned, and argued for many years and finally we have won. All forms of abortion have been banned in the USA and the United Kingdom!

Women can no longer murder their own children because children would be inconvenient for them. Promiscuous teens now have to deal with the consequences of a sexual relationship. Prostitutes can no longer kill the unwanted babies; pregnancies are no longer classed as an occupational hazard. A lot of innocent lives are saved, and a lot of infertile couples can now adopt the child that they have always wanted. The ban on abortion is hailed as being a great achievement! Most people agree that it should have been done decades ago.

Sarah thought the ban was great; that is, until she was raped and realised that she was pregnant. She didn’t want the baby because she knew the child would be a constant reminder of what happened. Sarah is also worried that the child would resemble it’s father and didn’t want to have to see him on a daily basis. What should she do?

Jane has six children already and finds out that she is pregnant. She has recently been made redundant and can hardly support the children she already has. She knows that she would be unable to care for the new baby, and that the baby would suffer as a result. What should she do?

Mary is the proud mother of a two year old girl. She decided to try for another baby and was extremely happy when she discovered that she was pregnant! However, after the first trimester her doctor told her that the baby only had a ten percent chance of survival. He also told her that there was a strong possibility that she could die during labour. The doctor would prefer to abort the baby but he no longer has the option. What should happen now?

We all know the evils of abortion, but the issue is not as black and white as we would like it to be. If abortion was criminalised, how would we solve problems like the ones listed above?

This is a discussion of the practical consequences of a complete ban on abortion. I am interested in hearing your solutions to some of the problems this would present.
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How about if the other 1 million or so babies (times how many years) who might not be aborted, who once able to pray, would do so for these people in difficult medical conditions? Honestly! Are you arguing that all abortion remained legal, just in case someone had a difficult medical condition?
 
OutinChgoburbs said:
If you can plan for two, you can plan for four, or you can plan for 8…planning is not some sort of guarantee, as others have explained to you. I believe there’s a scripture, a parable of Jesus, some guy who plans and builds to store up for himself, and then says something to the effect of, “Take it easy, now, Self! You’ve got it all!” And “Self” dies that night. All the planning in the world did him no good.

Over the summer, I built myself a big pantry in the garage. It is designed so I can bulk shop and save money in the long run. I have canned goods’ shelves, a chest freezer, drawers with dried food packets, an extra fridge. What happens if the power goes out and my generator unit isn’t installed yet? What happens if the garage burns down? Will we all starve? Does that mean I have to kill my younger two children? Is a little deprivation in the short term going to mean they have to give up their lives in the long term? What it the expenses get so bad they have to go to public school, or be home educated? See, it’s a non-issue.

I am the eldest of 7. My youngest brother was born when I was 19. At 51, while there are certainly days I would tell you that I can name candidates out of my sibling group to be eliminated, the world would really NOT be better without each of them. The techs (coder, hardware and network), the carpenter, the executive assistant, even the MSW, all contribute to Society.

And that youngest makes a very good living as a musician and music teacher.

Our sibling group did not go to Catholic school all the time. I went to a magnet high school. One year, we couldn’t afford anything, and we all went to public school. Two of my brothers went to alternative high schools. Further, in most Catholic schools, there is a break in tuition after the first or second child. And I used all three sources for my children, including home education, something you neglected (Perhaps you don’t know much about it).

I see you don’t list yourself in your profile as having the experience of children to raise, and I see you don’t list yourself as belonging to any ecclesial community. Perhaps we can pray for you, that you can understand how your argument has holes.
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This is about original intent. If you set standards for yourself and your children, then planning is an absolute requirement. I cannot send 6 children to Catholic school. I can send 3 children to Catholic school. How life unfolds is unknowable to me and unknowable to you.
I prefer to be a responsible parent and plan for the future. What that future ultimately holds is anyone’s guess.
Your argument is specious.
 
adamsapple said:
This is about original intent. If you set standards for yourself and your children, then planning is an absolute requirement. I cannot send 6 children to Catholic school. I can send 3 children to Catholic school. How life unfolds is unknowable to me and unknowable to you.
I prefer to be a responsible parent and plan for the future. What that future ultimately holds is anyone’s guess.
Your argument is specious.
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And what happens if you your spouse or one of your children get sick? Do you send one to public school or do you just kill one?

You cannot plan for everything. God will provide, why is that hard for you to understand? It is not responsible planning to omit one of the children God has planned for you so that you can send the other three to Catholic School. That would be poor parenting and sending a very bad example to the three children you have chosen to accept.
 
Yellow_Belle said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by feargalmac View Post
Here in Ireland abortion is illegal.

Actually, that is not completely correct. In theory, abortion is legal in Ireland if there is a risk to the life of the woman. A provision exists in the Irish constitution to allow the Irish Parliament to legislate on this. However no political party has risked it, and in the meantime, while it is legal in theory, the body that holds medical licences in Ireland considers it malpractice for any doctor to perform an abortion
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I pray one day to be allowed to live in my ancestral land, and hopefully to achieve citizenship, and leave this nut-house which is America.

I love America, but she’s sinking like a stone. Not that Ireland is that much better, as I don’t actually know whether she is or not, but I’m getting old, and I’d prefer a smaller world with real neighbors to die in.
 
adamsapple said:
This is about original intent. If you set standards for yourself and your children, then planning is an absolute requirement. I cannot send 6 children to Catholic school. I can send 3 children to Catholic school. How life unfolds is unknowable to me and unknowable to you.
I prefer to be a responsible parent and plan for the future. What that future ultimately holds is anyone’s guess.
Your argument is specious.
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How do you know you can’t send six. For instance, I donate $9K/year to our Catholic School so others can go, and I don’t have a child in school. Oh, ye of little faith! Does responsible to you mean limiting what God can accomplish in your life by saying “no” to Him?
 
MDK said:
How do you know you can’t send six. For instance, I donate $9K/year to our Catholic School so others can go, and I don’t have a child in school. Oh, ye of little faith! Does responsible to you mean limiting what God can accomplish in your life by saying “no” to Him?
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It’s irresponsible to make decisions based on irrational thinking - and that’s what you’re proposing. If your train of logic were correct, then no one would have savings accounts, no one should plan for retirement, no one should plan for the future. No one, including you, knows what the future will bring. But a responsible person takes steps to deal with realities and not speculation.

Using your hypothesis, we should all be sky diving, spending like there’s no tomorrow, take out mortgages we can’t afford and then - well, just hope for the best - who knows - maybe CAN pay for that mortgage. God only knows, of course. So go for it, buddy. In the meantime, I choose to manage our lives the best I know how and in keeping with rational thinking.
 
adamsapple said:
This is about original intent. If you set standards for yourself and your children, then planning is an absolute requirement. I cannot send 6 children to Catholic school. I can send 3 children to Catholic school. How life unfolds is unknowable to me and unknowable to you.
I prefer to be a responsible parent and plan for the future. What that future ultimately holds is anyone’s guess.
Your argument is specious.
Click to expand...
You have yet to show us how abortion solves any of the problems you mentioned.
 
adamsapple said:
It’s irresponsible to make decisions based on irrational thinking - and that’s what you’re proposing. If your train of logic were correct, then no one would have savings accounts, no one should plan for retirement, no one should plan for the future. No one, including you, knows what the future will bring. But a responsible person takes steps to deal with realities and not speculation.

Using your hypothesis, we should all be sky diving, spending like there’s no tomorrow, take out mortgages we can’t afford and then - well, just hope for the best - who knows - maybe CAN pay for that mortgage. God only knows, of course. So go for it, buddy. In the meantime, I choose to manage our lives the best I know how and in keeping with rational thinking.
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No, what you do is misunderstand me completely. I’ll make it easier for you. If you did use my train of thought, you would leave your life open to God and His Holy Will, seeking Him and saying “yes” to Him. So, using birth control would be wrong, in case you’re wondering. If you trust God, you don’t know what the future will bring, the same as if you don’t trust God. However, if you do trust God and seek to stay on His plan, you know whatever occurs you will be able to handle and be fine. It doesn’t matter what the future will bring, because you’re with God. It’s not irresponsible, because my wife and I are doing that to the best of our ability, and things have always worked, and we have no doubt will continue to work. Is it what I prefer, or what He prefers? His plan is always better.

It doesn’t mean you have no money, as we have enough, and also enough to share with others. Your other interpretations are kind of “out there,” and seem to be based more on fear than confidence in God, so hopefully now you have a better idea.

Also, what you’re interpreting and promoting is putting God to the test, which if you remember Jesus rebuked Satan and told him not to do so. Trusting God has nothing to do with being irresponsible, having no savings, or putting God to the test… just the opposite. We are responsible, have savings, etc.

What you want to do is limit your children so you can have a certain standard of life you deem suitable… outside of trusting God. If you put your “wisdom” and will above God, then we see people say things like you have.
 
MDK said:
No, what you do is misunderstand me completely. I’ll make it easier for you. If you did use my train of thought, you would leave your life open to God and His Holy Will, seeking Him and saying “yes” to Him. So, using birth control would be wrong, in case you’re wondering. If you trust God, you don’t know what the future will bring, the same as if you don’t trust God. However, if you do trust God and seek to stay on His plan, you know whatever occurs you will be able to handle and be fine. It doesn’t matter what the future will bring, because you’re with God. It’s not irresponsible, because my wife and I are doing that to the best of our ability, and things have always worked, and we have no doubt will continue to work. Is it what I prefer, or what He prefers? His plan is always better.

It doesn’t mean you have no money, as we have enough, and also enough to share with others. Your other interpretations are kind of “out there,” and seem to be based more on fear than confidence in God, so hopefully now you have a better idea.

What you want to do is limit your children so you can have a certain standard of life you deem suitable… outside of trusting God. If you put your “wisdom” and will above God, then we see people say things like you have.
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There’s nothing immoral about NFP. I am following the will of God - God gave me an intellect and a free will to know the difference between being a responsible parent and an irresponsible one.

If you don’t agree, perhaps you should consult a knowledgeable priest who can give you some guidance on the responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.
 
adamsapple said:
There’s nothing immoral about NFP. I am following the will of God - God gave me an intellect and a free will to know the difference between being a responsible parent and an irresponsible one.

If you don’t agree, perhaps you should consult a knowledgeable priest who can give you some guidance on the responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.
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Making decisions without Him is indeed irresponsible compared to seeking His guidance and will for our lives, and saying “yes” to our Father.

What you continue to do is to willfully misinterpret what I’ve said. No one looking to understand would likely interpret what I’ve said as NFP, but as artificial birth control is what is immoral. God gave us intellect, but not to go off on our own without Him. He’s not a clockmaker, that wound you up, and let you go on your own. He’s intimately involved in our lives, and we must seek Him and let Him be the main person in our lives.

Isn’t it ironic that one who seeks to make decisions based on his own “wisdom” rather than God’s is asking me to see a priest. From my responses, you haven’t yet figured out that I have and already do that? We also have priests as friends who we dine with and have lengthy discussions. That is in part why I’m able to answer as I have.
 
MDK said:
Making decisions without Him is indeed irresponsible compared to seeking His guidance and will for our lives, and saying “yes” to our Father.

What you continue to do is to willfully misinterpret what I’ve said. No one looking to understand would likely interpret what I’ve said as NFP, but as artificial birth control is what is immoral. God gave us intellect, but not to go off on our own without Him. He’s not a clockmaker, that wound you up, and let you go on your own. He’s intimately involved in our lives, and we must seek Him and let Him be the main person in our lives.

Isn’t it ironic that one who seeks to make decisions based on his own “wisdom” rather than God’s is asking me to see a priest. From my responses, you haven’t yet figured out that I have and already do that? We also have priests as friends who we dine with and have lengthy discussions. That is in part why I’m able to answer as I have.
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I say again, God gave us intellect and free will to make decisions. And I suggest again that you seek out counsel from a knowledgeable priest. I am sure that priest will tell you that a responsible parent does not jeopardize the safety and security of his family.
Sending my children to Catholic school is extremely important to me. I know the value of a Catholic education. Apparently you don’t. Your interpretation of “God’s will” is to act like there’s no tomorrow - eat, drink and make merry because tomorrow you may die.
Well, that’s your choice.
 
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