Abortion has been made illegal! What happens now?

[jflare29]

Abortion is made illegal? That’d be one battle won, with the rest of the war still pending.
In my opinion, we must see Roe v. Wade overturned. We must have the legal precedent re-set to allow for a Culture of Life to flourish. Too many within Christendom, even within Catholicism, still see “chastity” as merely a synonym for “abstinence”. Given that most politically known efforts have focused on the latter, that shouldn’t be a surprise. Regrettably, the two are not synonymous.

I’ve seen two gross misconceptions in this thread:

1. Planned Parenthood is solely responsible for abortion.
2. Planned Parenthood has no responsibility in promoting abortion.

Judging by all I’ve heard about Planned Parenthood’s documented efforts to follow various state laws–or rather to tapdance around them–combined with their well-known efforts to promote “choice”, I think it ludicrous to state that they’ve had no interest in promoting abortion. They have and we know it.

On the other hand, it’s foolish to insist that legal abortion remains law solely because of Planned Parenthood’s efforts. They are certainly a well-known advocate, but others are as well. NOW comes to mind, and I believe NARAL is similar in intent. As are numerous others.

That’s why I think we’ll have a continued fight over these issues. Contraception IS the mentality and the curriculum of the nation right now, until we legally require all children to hear about chastity, we’ll continue to hear trumpet blasts for legalized abortion at all ages.

 

[estesbob]

synonymous.

I’ve seen two gross misconceptions in this thread:

1. Planned Parenthood is solely responsible for abortion.
2. Planned Parenthood has no responsibility in promoting abortion.

.

Who said Planned Parenthood is solely responsible for abortion?

 

[marietta]

Ceil-1:

If a person disagrees with you and expresses an opinion different than your own, does s/he automatically become a “know-it-all” who is “lecturing” on that subject by simply voicing an opinion? That opening salvo is offensive.

I have had business with Planned Parenthood; this was even before Roe v Wade came down the pike. I found the personnel to be intelligent and informed. I felt no pressure from anyone to decide one way or the other what course of medical treatment to pursue. This was in West Virginia and also in Oakland, California - two ends of the spectrum, but uniform civility and understanding.

You ask, “And another thing. What is it about these abortion supporters that the subject always manages to turn around to themselves?” This is a question without an identity - what are you asking? I would be pleased to try to answer that if I knew what you were driving at. Posters can only speak from their experience - anything else is “he said, she said” or simply inauthentic. What do you mean?
*
“Very telling, I think,”* you say. “Small wonder this country is going down the tubes. Not to worry, though, the only types producing offspring, these days, are the types that do defend life, liberty and the family. Rather ironic, don’t you think?”

Actually, there is a number of women, distressed about their pregnancies, who must carry to term and deliver their “offspring”, for better or for worse. Some of these women may actually find that they are able to manage parenting and, with resources and support, get the hang of it. I find the irony in the fact that you put so much faithful stock in “the types that do defend life, liberty and family”, as there is absolutely no guarantee that *their *children will grow up to be individuals who are rabidly pro-life. If a little more than 20% of Catholic marriages end in divorce, many of these kids will be products of that fracture. How will that affect their attitudes toward “life, liberty and the family”? I believe their first priority will be liberty at all costs.

Howard Roark:

I said that a woman’s choice to terminate a pregnancy is solely between her and God, if she believes in God. Some women do not. That, too, is a choice and, whether or not you agree with it, it should be respected.

“It’s precisely because God is real and God has an interest that Catholics want abortion to end,” you claim. “If God was imaginary or didn’t have an interest, anyone could legitimately do whatever they wanted to, even kill people. However, if everyone really agreed that God was, in fact, sitting in judgement over women who chose to abort their babies and those who facilitated it, the pro-choice side would back far, far off of their current poisition.”

Anyone can do anything they want, legitimate or not. I have never known any pro-life individual step away from a woman’s right to choose, whether she choose termination, birth, birth with adopting out. It’s the woman’s choice. And last time I heard, there was no heavenly chair positioned to the left of the Father with your name on it and someone asking you to weigh in on this subject. Like everyone here, you are entitled to your opinion, but I believe God can work out the details of “crime and punishment” all by Himself.

You write, “SO, again, I submit that no pro-choice person who ever uttered the line “It’s between the woman and God” really believed it. If they did believe it that a woman will stand in judgement before God for her choice, they’d be doing anything possible to make the choice of death unthinkable…and illegal is a good step toward unthinkable.”

I will not do one thing to make the option of abortion illegal for any woman.
I will encourage women to investigate all of their options if they find that they are unexpectedly and unhappily pregnant.
If abortion becomes illegal I will invest time and money in efforts to restore its legal status.
And *I do believe *it’s between the woman and God. I have believed that since 1971, when I had my abortion.

marietta

 

[Methodi]

Amen to that.

Adams Apple: I am sorry if you feel like I am attacking you. That is not my intention. But I do disagree with you saying that people having families when they are financially unstable and all of these other things are fairly ridiculous. I have known several large families who work for minimum wage with 10 kids and they are not afraid because they don’t need money they need Jesus and they have truly come to realize that and believe me, Jesus is with them helping them through this.

And I do believe that Catholic Education is very important, but that doesn’t mean that I should not have kids because I can’t pay an $8000 tuition fee. Jesus and going to Church are all I need to give my children a Catholic Education.

I am against abortion too,but look at the millions of starving children throughout the world,just wasting away,why?Birth control any day instead of abortion. Who knows if the Lord didnt give us the knowledge of artificialbirth control to use

 

[estesbob]

I am against abortion too,but look at the millions of starving children throughout the world,just wasting away,why?

In 99% of the cases its because of corrupt governments. Burma was a great example after the typhoon where millions of dollars of aid was flown in and promptly confiscated by the government who said that people could grow vegetables in their own garden to survive on.

The more free a country is the better off its people are.

 

[marietta]

The more free a country is the better off its people are.

Does this include the freedom to use artificial contraceptives?

marietta

 

[estesbob]

Does this include the freedom to use artificial contraceptives?

marietta

Yes

 

[Howard_Roark]

Marietta, I can’t help it if you are illogical and inconsistent. Each of your posts is just another exposition of your emotions…and why should anybody care how you feel? There are hundreds of millions of people in this country alone, and they all feel one way or the other…but none of those feelings mean anything to figuring out what is right and what is wrong.

So, congrats on being completely, totally, average…another person who lives under the misconception that your feelings are the arbiter of truth concerning life and death.

BTW, I was born in 1971 to a 17 year-old woman. She delivered me and placed me in the care of an adoption agency. So, I have strong feelings about this issue…but I cannot use my feelings to determine right and wrong. I don’t trust your feelings or mine. I trust the Church.

 

[hasikelee]

I am against abortion too,but look at the millions of starving children throughout the world,just wasting away,why?Birth control any day instead of abortion. Who knows if the Lord didnt give us the knowledge of artificialbirth control to use

Um, you do know that there are studies showing contraceptive use does not significantly reduce abortion numbers? And that, besides not stopping abortions, it increases STDs?

 

[adamsapple]

Um, you do know that there are studies showing contraceptive use does not significantly reduce abortion numbers? And that, besides not stopping abortions, it increases STDs?

So what does that mean? That you endorse making contraception illegal and unavailable?

This is the problem with all these arguments - those of you who think that making something illegal solves the problem should examine your motives. In fact, what you’re doing is attempting to force your opinion on others via the law. I’m not sure that a lot of people who endorse making abortion and contraception illegal care anything whatsoever about the fetus or the mother. It’s more about control and getting your own way.

 

[Howard_Roark]

It’s very difficult to “care” about people you’ve never met. That’s beauty of having principles, they are standards which safeguard people you haven’t even met.

What DO they teach in the schools these days?

 

[estesbob]

So what does that mean? That you endorse making contraception illegal and unavailable?

This is the problem with all these arguments - those of you who think that making something illegal solves the problem should examine your motives. In fact, what you’re doing is attempting to force your opinion on others via the law. I’m not sure that a lot of people who endorse making abortion and contraception illegal care anything whatsoever about the fetus or the mother. It’s more about control and getting your own way.

My my we built quite a straw man here haven’t we? Can you point me to the post for somebody said contraception should be made illegal?

I care so much about the “fetus” I don’t think her mother should be allowed to kill him. How about you?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

We have fought, campaigned, and argued for many years and finally we have won. All forms of abortion have been banned in the USA and the United Kingdom!

Women can no longer murder their own children because children would be inconvenient for them. Promiscuous teens now have to deal with the consequences of a sexual relationship. Prostitutes can no longer kill the unwanted babies; pregnancies are no longer classed as an occupational hazard. A lot of innocent lives are saved, and a lot of infertile couples can now adopt the child that they have always wanted. The ban on abortion is hailed as being a great achievement! Most people agree that it should have been done decades ago.

Sarah thought the ban was great; that is, until she was raped and realised that she was pregnant. She didn’t want the baby because she knew the child would be a constant reminder of what happened. Sarah is also worried that the child would resemble it’s father and didn’t want to have to see him on a daily basis. What should she do?

Jane has six children already and finds out that she is pregnant. She has recently been made redundant and can hardly support the children she already has. She knows that she would be unable to care for the new baby, and that the baby would suffer as a result. What should she do?

Mary is the proud mother of a two year old girl. She decided to try for another baby and was extremely happy when she discovered that she was pregnant! However, after the first trimester her doctor told her that the baby only had a ten percent chance of survival. He also told her that there was a strong possibility that she could die during labour. The doctor would prefer to abort the baby but he no longer has the option. What should happen now?

We all know the evils of abortion, but the issue is not as black and white as we would like it to be. If abortion was criminalised, how would we solve problems like the ones listed above?

This is a discussion of the practical consequences of a complete ban on abortion. I am interested in hearing your solutions to some of the problems this would present.

It would go underground. Abortion is a bad thing, but for the woman to die as well as the baby is no better. That would happen, because it’s what used to happen: women had back-street abortions, & often died. That at least - in the UK anyway - is a thing of the past. Instead abortions are carried out by properly qualified health professionals who are competent in gynaecology, & this is done legally.​

Criminalisation might salve some people’s consciences, but it’s no solution. It should remain legal. Plenty of people find the arms trade no less repellent, but when did a preacher of any Church last denounce that ? How many Christians who denounce abortion as murder, object to the proliferation of weapons which have the capacity to vaporise & obliterate whole crowds at once ? A USA without abortion might be far more “socialist” in its social policies than some people are prepared to tolerate…

There is - realistically - no solution; people have to live in the world as it really is, not as they might like it to be. I suppose sterilisation could be made compulsory; otherwise, there are going to be unwanted children who are going to be killed in the womb. Given the conditions in which some have to grow up, this might not be such a bad idea.

 

[adamsapple]

After we’ve defeated abortion?

WE START ON CONTRACEPTION OF COURSE!!!

Estesbob, please see above.

 

[marietta]

Howard Roark:

Did I ask you to fix me? Did I blame you for something I said or did or felt? No, I did not. So I could really do without the snide attitude and the name-calling.

Everyone here speaks from experience. You were born in '71? Your experience and your relation to it is arguably “under construction”. If you choose to trust the Catholic Church, that is your prerogative. If you have come to understand that the Church is reality, that is fine with me. However, it seems to have aspirated from you the ability to take the feelings that accompany experience and hone them into belief. Evidently, the Church has provided you with all the belief you will ever need, and that is just great. But I would advise you not to demean those who have been given wildly different experiences than yours - we all have our individual lessons to learn and mine are, quite obviously (and thankfully) different than yours.

Why should anybody care how I feel? I don’t particularly care how you feel about me, but I have found compassion on this forum from time to time and there are lots of people with similar circumstances who are willing to share their experience, strength and hope with me so that I can put my feet back on the path. Again, I am not, and would not, follow your path. This is not Catholic Answers Without Feelings Forum.

No, feelings are not facts. I am abundantly aware of this and try to keep my temper in check (although you are somewhat of a challenge for me, like a game show on an old t.v. that gets only 3 channels).

*“So, congrats on being completely, totally, average,” *you snipe, “…another person who lives under the misconception that your feelings are the arbiter of truth concerning life and death.” This is unnecessary, off-topic, rude and devoid of humanity. That makes you less than average.

marietta

 

[mlchance]

It would go underground. Abortion is a bad thing, but for the woman to die as well as the baby is no better. That would happen, because it’s what used to happen…​

Not nearly as often as pro-abortion proponents would like for people to believe. The reduction in complications due to abortion have less to do with its legalization (a situation which any right-thinking person must oppose) and more to do with improvements in things such as antibiotics.

Criminalisation might salve some people’s consciences, but it’s no solution. It should remain legal.

Making something morally abhorrent illegal hasn’t ever ended morally abhorrent things. Right? So, therefore, why not make everything legal?

There is - realistically - no solution; people have to live in the world as it really is, not as they might like it to be.

So you advocate an end to any and all programs of social reform? Right?

The greatest tragedy is that people accept the world for the way it is rather than striving to make the world as it ought to be. Or, as Jesus Christ said to the Father, “…Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.”

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[estesbob]

It would go underground. Abortion is a bad thing, but for the woman to die as well as the baby is no better. That would happen, because it’s what used to happen: women had back-street abortions, & often died. That at least - in the UK anyway - is a thing of the past. Instead abortions are carried out by properly qualified health professionals who are competent in gynaecology, & this is done legally.​

Prior to Roe V. Wade 92% of all abortions were performed by a licensed shipsin a sterile environment. Death from procuring an abortion average about 400 year. the myth of the dangerous back alley abortion is just that -a myth

Criminalisation might salve some people’s consciences, but it’s no solution. It should remain legal. Plenty of people find the arms trade no less repellent, but when did a preacher of any Church last denounce that ? How many Christians who denounce abortion as murder, object to the proliferation of weapons which have the capacity to vaporise & obliterate whole crowds at once

A USA without abortion might be far more “socialist” in its social policies than some people are prepared to tolerate…

Can’t one oppose abortion and nuclear perforation at the same time? Are they mutually exclusive?

The abortion exception rears its ugly head again! Abortion seems to be the only thing that people believe should be left legal because people might still do it if it was illegal.

The fact is that abortions quadrupled after Roe V. Wade was imposed on the country That means is that if abortion had not been legalized instead of 50 million dead the butchers toll may have “only” been around 12 million.

There is - realistically - no solution; people have to live in the world as it really is, not as they might like it to be. I suppose sterilisation could be made compulsory; otherwise, there are going to be unwanted children who are going to be killed in the womb. Given the conditions in which some have to grow up, this might not be such a bad idea.

There is no solution for those people who don’t want a solution. but for those of us who have been fighting the good fight for 30 years we have managed to lower abortions by about 25% and are one judge away from having Roe V. Wade overturned. And when we finally do get the abortion banned in this country those who stood by doing nothing will clap us on the back and tell us they were with us all along

 

[Brendan]

I am against abortion too,but look at the millions of starving children throughout the world,just wasting away,why?Birth control any day instead of abortion. Who knows if the Lord didnt give us the knowledge of artificialbirth control to use

Who creates every single child. Not just ‘allows’ them to be created, no man or woman could create anything apart from God.

But a conception cannot happen if God does not create a new, unique soul.

So is your point now that you know better than God on who He should have created. That one person’s suffering is too much, therefore they should never have been created in the first place.

Yes, God gave us knowledge of biology and chemistry. But He gave it to us to use for good, not to thumb our noses at the defining act of marriage.

 

[marietta]

Brendan writes:

“But He gave it to us to use for good, not to thumb our noses at the defining act of marriage.”

What has this to do with marriage?

marietta

 

[Brendan]

Brendan writes:

“But He gave it to us to use for good, not to thumb our noses at the defining act of marriage.”

What has this to do with marriage?

marietta

The defining act of marriage is the marital act. Contraception is a huge rejection of the defining act of marriage as created by God.