Abortion in the case of rape AND the life of the mother

[Emily2014]

Rape is horrible, but why does it justify killing the baby? Do you see no alternative to that course?

No I don’t, especially in the case of a little girl, already violated and traumatised.
In fact why should any rape victim be forced to carry the child of a rapist. I’ts inhumane.

 

[Milasol]

I am not going to waste my time arguing with irrational people.

The majority of us Catholics is against abortion. No question.

A healthy majority of Catholics is in favor of exceptions to this law, especially in cases of rape and incest. That would be a worthwhile discussion, looking at the physical and emotional implications of forced motherhood.

However, only a tiny minority of Catholics (hopefully less than 1%) of the most militant and fanatical ilk will deny an abortion in such extreme cases as we have been discussing.

The real fanatics are those who try and justify 56 million deaths already by presenting a case that is almost non-existent.

Those, my friend, are the real fanatics.

And it is way bigger than 1%

And guess what? The Church also thinks so.

Remember what divine law says “Thou shall not kill”

Now if you call and insult those who obey divine law… Then please pray. You need grace. God does not make mistakes.

 

[Milasol]

No I don’t, especially in the case of a little girl, already violated and traumatised.
In fact why should any rape victim be forced to carry the child of a rapist. I’ts inhumane.

It’s equally inhumane to kill that baby Emily.

Can’t you see that you are trying to solve a horrible situation with murder?

 

[Emily2014]

It’s equally inhumane to kill that baby Emily.

Can’t you see that you are trying to solve a horrible situation with murder?

I wonder if you are a man?
I cannot see any justification for any victim of rape to have to carry the child of her rapist.
Equally, in the case of rape, I do not see very early stage abortion as murder.
It would be interesting to have a survey of the views of Catholic women on this issue.

 

[Hans_W]

56 million and counting and some here would bring in an almost non-existent case…

Let me help you with your numbers. There are an estimated 44 million abortions worldwide per year. If we stretch that over just a few decades, then your figure is pitiable.

But I can’t see what that has got to do with our question here. The title of the thread is: Abortion in the case of rape AND the mother’s life in danger.

Nicaragua is one of only seven countries with an absolute ban on abortion.
I am quoting here from an internet source:

"In Nicaragua the number of girls between the ages of 10 and 14 who give birth has risen by 48 percent since 2000, according to government statistics. One in every four births here is to a girl between the ages of 15 and 19. It is young women, especially those in poor rural regions, who suffer most under this law.

Barely out of puberty themselves, their bodies often aren’t mature enough to develop and birth a healthy baby. The circumstances of conception can be brutal: many of these girls are victims of sustained sexual abuse, particularly those 14 or younger, who fall under Nicaragua’s statutory rape laws."

Many of these girls have to give birth to their own brothers and sisters. Hundreds have died, because they didn’t make it through their pregnancy and there is no other option. Would you like to see this happening in your country?

 

[Rau]

In fact why should any rape victim be forced to carry the child of a rapist. I’ts inhumane.

What choice does the rape victim have? A choice to kill? A choice to show love and respect for the life of an innocent baby? Which is the better course?

 

[Rau]

Honestly this is one of the most ridiculous posts I’ve read. Think about that 9 year old child and ask what you believe Jesus would want for her.

Jesus would want her to be loved, not raped. Man did that. Jesus would want her to love, not kill. Jesus would want her with him. Would Jesus want death at the hands of another man for the baby?

 

[Milasol]

Let me help you with your numbers. There are an estimated 44 million abortions worldwide per year. If we stretch that over just a few decades, then your figure is pitiable.

But I can’t see what that has got to do with our question here. The title of the thread is: Abortion in the case of rape AND the mother’s life in danger.

Nicaragua is one of only seven countries with an absolute ban on abortion.
I am quoting here from an internet source:

"In Nicaragua the number of girls between the ages of 10 and 14 who give birth has risen by 48 percent since 2000, according to government statistics. One in every four births here is to a girl between the ages of 15 and 19. It is young women, especially those in poor rural regions, who suffer most under this law.

Barely out of puberty themselves, their bodies often aren’t mature enough to develop and birth a healthy baby. The circumstances of conception can be brutal: many of these girls are victims of sustained sexual abuse, particularly those 14 or younger, who fall under Nicaragua’s statutory rape laws."

Many of these girls have to give birth to their own brothers and sisters. Hundreds have died, because they didn’t make it through their pregnancy and there is no other option. Would you like to see this happening in your country?

well, I’m glad you are not insulting anymore. I am glad that you see how the butchery of human beings is much more than 56 million (that is the estimated figure of the US since roe v wade)

And let me tell you that by killing their babies you won’t stop their rape. If anything it would contribute to it.
The problem is rape and not a baby.

I remember the feminist progressives arguing that it was for the health of the mother and for some poor girls that were rape… here we are million and millions of deaths after their petty argument… I wonder how that must feel.

It is very common for the progressive agenda to try and convince the so-called civilized world that in some third world country horrible girls are suffering rape and thus need abortion. I know I am from South America. The reality is that they only want to impose a population control agenda. As they have imposed in many third world countries.

 

[Rau]

I wonder if you are a man?
I cannot see any justification for any victim of rape to have to carry the child of her rapist.
Equally, in the case of rape, I do not see very early stage abortion as murder.
It would be interesting to have a survey of the views of Catholic women on this issue.

You mean it is murder when it is not “very early”?? How early?

So abortion for convenience, if done “very early stage”, is ok too?

 

[Emily2014]

Dear Rau,

I specifically referred to victims of rape, when obviously the procedure should be carried out as soon as possible to prevent further distress to an already brutalised victim.

I made no mention of “abortion for convenience”. Those were your words not mine.

 

[Pug]

I wonder if you are a man?
I cannot see any justification for any victim of rape to have to carry the child of her rapist.
Equally, in the case of rape, I do not see very early stage abortion as murder.
It would be interesting to have a survey of the views of Catholic women on this issue.

What is it then? I assume you mean that it is murder if the mother had not been raped? So what is it then in the case that she had been raped?

 

[Rau]

What is it then? I assume you mean that it is murder if the mother had not been raped? So what is it then in the case that she had been raped?

May I interject? I too look forward to Emily’s answer, but I suspect there are only two possibilities:

1. Justifiable Homicide; OR
2. Two - not homicide at all on the believe that the “very early stage” child is not a human.

Argument (1) is a bit like the lost island scenario - two many people for the available food, so we need to kill one (an innocent). But it is counter to a deeply held moral principle that it is wrong to do an intrinsic evil to achieve a good. [Stand by - I’m sure someone will bring up (erroneously) self-defence in a moment…]

Argument (2) is a kind of “out of sight, out of mind” argument.

 

[Rau]

Dear Rau,

I specifically referred to victims of rape, when obviously the procedure should be carried out as soon as possible to prevent further distress to an already brutalised victim.

I made no mention of “abortion for convenience”. Those were your words not mine.

I was trying to understand where you want to draw the line on when it is / is not murder.

• Mother at medical risk: Not Murder;
• Rape Victim, early stage: Not Murder;
• Rape Victim, later stage: ???
• Not a Rape Victim, early stage: ???
• Not a Rape Victim, later stage: ???

In all cases, an INNOCENT is killed.

 

[Emily2014]

Reply to Pug:
Are you a man?
Have you ever seen or spoken with a victim of rape, especially a very young girl.
Would you seriously sentence a rape victim to carry the seed of her rapist for 9 months? What if she was also the victim of an incestuous attack, possibly by her father?
Can you imagine what long-term psychological damage would result if she was forced to go through a pregnancy? It’s inhumane to label a termination as “Murder” under these circumstances.

 

[Hans_W]

You mean it is murder when it is not “very early”?? How early?
So abortion for convenience, if done “very early stage”, is ok too?

Rau - you have the annoying habit of drowning a serious argument with your silly little questions. Here are some more:

What choice does the rape victim have? A choice to kill? A choice to show love and respect for the life of an innocent baby? Which is the better course?
Jesus would want her to be loved, not raped. Man did that. Jesus would want her to love, not kill. Jesus would want her with him. Would Jesus want death at the hands of another man for the baby?
Rape is horrible, but why does it justify killing the baby? Do you see no alternative to that course?

Just to answer your last question: No I can’t see a viable alternative other than temporarily castrating every non-married man.

But bringing unwanted, unhealthy (incest) children into the world is not a solution either. Not to mention the thousands women and girls who have died, who’s future is in ruins. Not to mention the bleak future of those babies being raised by their teenage mums.

I agree with Pope Francis when he says that the Church has grown obsessed with abortion, gay marriage and contraception. He openly criticized the Church for putting dogma before love and compassion, for prioritizing moral doctrines.

We’ll see changes in the hopefully not too distant future. The Church is very much out sync with their flock. I believe that only 1.5% of Catholics in the US use the prescribed Natural Family Planning in practice.

Things are moving a bit slow in the Catholic Church. It took them 400 years to spell out an apology for the Galileo debacle.

 

[Rau]

Reply to Pug:
Are you a man?
Have you ever seen or spoken with a victim of rape, especially a very young girl.
Would you seriously sentence a rape victim to carry the seed of her rapist for 9 months? What if she was also the victim of an incestuous attack, possibly by her father?
Can you imagine what long-term psychological damage would result if she was forced to go through a pregnancy? It’s inhumane to label a termination as “Murder” under these circumstances.

A “termination” - a clinical sort of word. So, it is just a medical procedure. Is it akin to removing a skin cancer?

 

[Rau]

…But bringing unwanted, unhealthy (incest) children into the world is not a solution either. Not to mention the thousands women and girls who have died, who’s future is in ruins. Not to mention the bleak future of those babies being raised by their teenage mums.

And world hunger is a terrible tragedy too, but we know we can’t kill, even the most unwanted and unloved people, to help others.

Is abortion ever murder Hans?

 

[Rau]

… It’s inhumane to label a termination as “Murder” under these circumstances.

I don’t understand how “circumstances” make the difference as to whether intentionally killing an innocent is or is not murder! Two of us are on a desert island that can only support one of us. May I kill you ?

 

[Emily2014]

I don’t understand how “circumstances” make the difference as to whether intentionally killing an innocent is or is not murder! Two of us are on a desert island that can only support one of us. May I kill you ?

Yes please

 

[Emily2014]

A “termination” - a clinical sort of word. So, it is just a medical procedure. Is it akin to removing a skin cancer?

In the case of rape - yes.