Well, as you know we are all fallen people, sinful people.At least some 70 years ago in the European countryside, that was the practice.
I don’t know how it is today; but the illegitimate children born then were stigmatized. Many of them still alive today, and some still feeling the burden of that stigma.
You haven’t established that people here aren’t.I have a feeling the pro life people over there are veeeery much into social welfare, justice, and protection of all life not just life in the womb.
What’s taken for granted? The Catholic Church does not discriminate against single mothers or rape victims.Count yourself fortunate that you can take for granted things that many other people have to work for very hard.
Flufflepuff,
I’m truly sorry that your situation was so terrible. I also sympathize with your needing therapy. However, life is not cheap and those who treat it as such are wrong. Love and forgiveness can eventually heal those wounds, however.
I am very good friends with a woman who was sexually assaulted from the time she was nine until she was twenty-five. At one point, she found herself pregnant and did not know if the father of the child was her father or her boyfriend. She had to quit working on her advanced degree due to the health complications of pregnancy, these complications also resulted in her never being able to have another child. To me, this woman was the poster child for rape, incest, and life of the mother in one pregnancy. She chose to have the child (illegitimately) and live in a situation that was short on money. Years down the road, she is happily married and a grandmother. She may not have been in poverty, but was never far from it.
This woman tells me the trick to overcoming these things is two-fold. You need to get help, and most important, no matter how hard it is, you need to forgive those who wronged you. If you can forgive, then you will heal because forgiving is not about them, it’s about you and your health. A relative of hers who was in a similar situation hasn’t tried to forgive those who hurt her and she doesn’t handle life well.
PS. I call this amazing woman, “Mom,” which is why I stand against abortion (aside from the excellent Catholic reasons).
My therapist said the same thing. I’m not angry as much anymore and yeah I know forgiving is the only way mentally I’ll be able to move forward. For me forgiving is not being angry anymore, but I’ll never be able to trust him. The man actually has ruined more than a few lives and not too long ago out of his dislike of me tried to ruin me legally. His health is quite poor at the moment as it looks like they’re about to ampute a leg due to infection. If he would quit drinking a case or two of beer a week plus that cheap 5 liter box of wine every weekend. At least I don’t have to worry about him being as violent now, but as far as me ever having a relationship with the man, even if his health was better, now way not now not ever.You haven’t established that people here aren’t.
There are absolutely NO circumstances where a direct abortion is permitted.Hi,
I’m curious about The Church’s stance on abortion. Does anyone ever take into consideration the poverty a lot of single mothers face once they give birth? Sure, would be nice if they planned things better but many don’t. Does anyone ever vote for bills/amendments that would give more aid to the poor in addition to banning abortion?
Then you should be grateful that others did not feel that it is OK to murder you because you were in bad circumstances. After all, you can always murder yourself (suicide). Since you have not murdered yourself, then maybe you think your life is worth living, even if it got off to a bad start.Actually, yeah I would not have cared more than a few times in the past if my head was blown off, life was a lot more than I could handle. Infact last December my depression was so bad that the psychologist almost had me hospitalized. My life is in pieces and I’m giving God a try.
So does that make the killing of just one innocent person OK? Hitler murdered six million Jews, and Stalin murdered ten times that many of his own countrymen. So does that make just ONE murder OK?Hmmm, I could think of some people who did way worse things than abortion, Genghis Khan was pretty bad, the drawing and quartering the English did was bad, and boiling people in oil/water, ohhh that was a bad one too.
That there are communities of adult people where you can walk in and not have to fear that it’s going to be like highschool all over again - with all the bullying, discrimination, and such.What’s taken for granted?
But some people do. Hearing “What’s she doing here?!” whispered behind one’s back is not … particularly encouraging.The Catholic Church does not discriminate against single mothers or rape victims.
One can feel grateful only if one has something that one values. One cannot be grateful for something that one doesn’t value.Then you should be grateful that others did not feel that it is OK to murder you because you were in bad circumstances.
To the best of my knowledge, Hitler never personally killed anyone (except for his alleged suicide), nor ever directly told anyone to kill someone. This is the great paradox in the study of Nazi history. Hitler is getting all the blame, while the people below him did all the dirty work.Hitler murdered six million Jews
Sounds paranoid to me. If you go around expecting to be rejected, then you will interpret everything through that lens, imagining all sorts of things and ascribing motives to people.But some people do. Hearing “What’s she doing here?!” whispered behind one’s back is not … particularly encouraging.
While few Christians will openly condemn someone, it’s the constant little jabs, the whispers behind one’s back that do it.
An open, straightforward condemnation is easier to live with, because then at least one knows where one is at. But the secretive, indirect mistreatment behind the public appearance of a righteous person – that is much harder to live with.
Nah. People from troubled backgrounds sometimes just have a more finely tuned radar for picking up clues. It’s what is necessary for survival in a harsh social environment. One sees the less than noble things that some people would rather hide … It’s can be a blessing and a curse at the same time.Sounds paranoid to me. If you go around expecting to be rejected, then you will interpret everything through that lens, imagining all sorts of things and ascribing motives to people.
Ive never really understood this either…our society seems to think its perfectly acceptable and fine to kill an unborn baby, but everyone gets upset when a parent kills a child (newborn or toddler especially), doesnt make sense to me…??Why is it okay to end the life of someone who has not been born, but killing a newborn is bad? Why is it wrong to kill newborns who would end up in bad situations?
You know, this is one reason why I brought this topic up, a lot of people argue religious law, but while the USA does do some things for the poor it pales in comparison to Europe and even Canada. The poor here are so marginalized it’s disgusting. Sure, I agree abortion is bad, but when you don’t address peoples reasons behind whatever cause they’re championing all you end up with is a bitter Mexican standoff. I use that phrase because i’ve never seen two people more ready to rip eachotehrs throats out than the pro lie/pro choice people. I can think of a few more, but i’m not bringing them up. Anyway, In the past I did see child care/adoption desks set up at my old college that were usually backed by some Christian organization, why not focus more on those? Honestly those anti-abortion protests where they show whats left of a baby are disgusting but the average person is so desensitized not to many people, especially men really care. I’ll be honest, it never phased me one bit. I think Jesus had the best idea, approach people with loving kindness instead of in a confrontational manner, you get more bees with honey after all.Ive never really understood this either…our society seems to think its perfectly acceptable and fine to kill an unborn baby, but everyone gets upset when a parent kills a child (newborn or toddler especially), doesnt make sense to me…??
In reality, if our society deems abortion to be OK, then really, it shouldnt be that big of a deal when we hear of parents killing their children, oddly though, when this happens, it usually makes national news, sometimes global news, everyone gets sooo upset, they scream for the death penalty, life in prison, etc.
Law enforcement is no different either, in cases where parents MAY have killed their children, cops will literally work day and night to investigate, in short, they take this extremely serious and personal, but again, with abortion, they seem to just let it go on, not even look into it…??
Societies are either ok with murder of children or not ok with it…cant be both in my opinion.
Something else to think about…if any of us had been around back when Hitler came to power and we knew of all the terrible things he was doing, in TODAYS world, knowing what we know now, anyone who would have tried to kill hitler or others under his command would be viewed as patriots/ heroes…but at the time, they would have been viewed as terrorists, evil people who went against the leader/ Govt. I think the same will take place with people who try to stop abortion and those who participate in it/ make sure its legal, accessible, etc CURRENTLY, anyone who does something like this, is deemed a domestic terrorist, and likely jailed for life, people HATE them, but in time, I think they will probably be seen as heroes/ patriots, just like if someone had stopped hitler from all the people he killed…its sad though that it takes society such a long time to recognize what is good and what is not.
I think its safe to say, eventually ANYONE, even remotely associated with abortion, will be seen the same way people look at the Nazis in todays world, Im talking about anyone also…even those people/companies that agree to give abortion clinics office space, people who do any kind of work for abortion clinics, whether it be electrical repair, plumbing repair, right down to the UPS driver who delivers supplies to an abortion office…if you look at how society currently views anyone remotely associated with the Nazis, its the same thing, they are hated as bad as the nazis themselves…abortion and anyone who assists them will be no different, and really probably should not be.
Im not condoning violence, but I mean, look at history, to get rid of the Nazis and all the terrible things they wanted, it took the allied forces going in and stopping them by force, diplomatic and other methods would not have worked…I have a sneaky feeling we as christians should probably be doing more to try and stop abortion, but problem is, everyone is concerned more with mans laws and getting into legal trouble…sad world we live in and Im not sure how we get past this.
Wow, sense when this start to become sexist? Who are you to say that men are less caring then women??? And if seeing a mutilated baby, no bigger then you thumb, lay there dead with it’s arms and legs torn right off because the parents were so selfish that they don’t care about that innocent child, doesn’t phase you a bit then there is something wrong.Honestly those anti-abortion protests where they show whats left of a baby are disgusting but the average person is so desensitized not to many people, especially men really care. I’ll be honest, it never phased me one bit.
Whelp, I have had a life that’s led me to being in outpatient mental healthcare so I guess I’m the special snowflake in this situation.Wow, sense when this start to become sexist? Who are you to say that men are less caring then women??? And if seeing a mutilated baby, no bigger then you thumb, lay there dead with it’s arms and legs torn right off because the parents were so selfish that they don’t care about that innocent child, doesn’t phase you a bit then there is something wrong.
Another one trying to re-write history!!One can feel grateful only if one has something that one values. One cannot be grateful for something that one doesn’t value.
If there is one thing one is likely to learn growing up in the underprivileged sectors of society is that a person’s life has little or no value.
That doesn’t automatically mean that one will believe it is okay to kill people (born or unborn), but it does make one apathetic toward life in general.
To the best of my knowledge, Hitler never personally killed anyone (except for his alleged suicide), nor ever directly told anyone to kill someone. This is the great paradox in the study of Nazi history. Hitler is getting all the blame, while the people below him did all the dirty work.
Not at all. How openly one is willing to talk about the Nazis tends to be connected to how willing one is to be open about one’s own evil tendencies … And then there are all those stereotypes and taboos when it comes to talking about Nazism …Another one trying to re-write history!!
Hitler is the one responsible for the millions murdered in the holocaust and for all the millions killed in WWII.Not at all. How openly one is willing to talk about the Nazis tends to be connected to how willing one is to be open about one’s own evil tendencies … And then there are all those stereotypes and taboos when it comes to talking about Nazism …
Anyway, carry on.
The Catholic Church generally supports welfare programs for the poor. It does warn against making the state totally responsible for human welfare and teaches the doctrine of “subsidiarity,” according to which everything should be done at the lowest level of centralization possible. Some American conservative Catholics use this to argue for something close to libertarianism and to vote against government assistance to the poor, but this is very far from the mainstream position of the Church worldwide and also goes against what the U.S. bishops as a whole say.Hi,
I’m curious about The Church’s stance on abortion. Does anyone ever take into consideration the poverty a lot of single mothers face once they give birth? Sure, would be nice if they planned things better but many don’t. Does anyone ever vote for bills/amendments that would give more aid to the poor in addition to banning abortion?
This is the answer I was hoping to get from the beginning, not an over emotional bandwagon. Geez some of these people sound like over emotional teenagers, and this is coming from someone in outpatient mental healthcare.The Catholic Church generally supports welfare programs for the poor. It does warn against making the state totally responsible for human welfare and teaches the doctrine of “subsidiarity,” according to which everything should be done at the lowest level of centralization possible. Some American conservative Catholics use this to argue for something close to libertarianism and to vote against government assistance to the poor, but this is very far from the mainstream position of the Church worldwide and also goes against what the U.S. bishops as a whole say.
So yes. Catholics in general support welfare programs, although some American Catholics interpret (I would say misinterpret, but perhaps I don’t have the right to say that) Catholic teaching in a different way.
Of course, those Catholics who take this position (and indeed all Catholics) support private charity, and in particular support efforts by the Church to care for the poor.
Edwin