Abortion?

[ProLifeAction]

seeker63:

A question for those 100% against abortion: when choosing who to vote for, if you disagree with everything a candidate stands for and think him an inept fool, but he happens to share your beliefs on abortion, do you vote for him? Is abortion THE ONLY issue you consider at the polls? Just curious…

I worked on a City Council race awhile back and was doing phone banking, and several people said they’d not vote for a certain candidate because he was pro-abortion. I said abortion really wasn’t an issue the City Council addressed, but these people had their minds made up.

Also, I know the Catholic Church has always opposed abortion, and I know Roe vs. Wade took place in 1973, but I don’t really recall abortion being a major national issue, a major thing in Presidential races, for instance, until the 1980 race and the rise of Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority. Or is my memory poor here?

If a candidate is Pro-Abortion, then there really is no sense looking further into the candidate and the rest of his/her issues. No matter what the office, each office is a stepping stone for a more prominent office. Therefore even at the smaller levels of government, we need to elect Pro-Life Candidates if we ever are going to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Questions for those on this thread to think about – If a candidate cannot be trusted passing laws to protect the earliest stages of life, how can you trust this candidate will protect your life?

If this candidate were Pro-Terrorism (like Bin Laden) would you need to look any further at the rest of his/her issues to decide whether he/she would get your vote? Of course not! (The Pro-Terrorism issue was introduced by Fr. Pavone at Priests for Life).

There are a few issues (Abortion, Terrorism, Euthanasia) out there which declares a Serious Voter can in NO WAY place a vote for the candidate.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Jacksquat89:

Those abortion techniques are rarely used. Also abortions are usually administered before the baby can feel, or at least it has not been proven that it can feel. Abortion is wrong, but lets get our facts straight.

If this is what you really believe then I would advise you to watch the Silent Scream video of an actual abortion taking place on the internet. It is narrated by Dr. Nathanson who was one of the founding members of NARAL & performed/supervised thousands of abortions. Please turn up the volume on your computer so you can hear the narrator.

silentscream.org/

 

[The_Barrister]

Naphali:

I had to click, “In certain cases” because I know there are cases where the baby is terminal and will suffer more greatly on being born –

So, your solution is to kill them *before * they have a *chance * to suffer?

And who are you to define what is and what is not suffering? Do you know how most abortions are performed? The doctor inserts a scalpel into a joint, slicing and then twisting the knife to break the joint apart, much like you might insert a knife into the joint between a chicken leg and thigh so you can enjoy your dinner.

Do you think the baby suffers in having her arms and legs sliced and ripped off? Keep in mind that an unborn child has a complete nervous system by ten weeks, and it is operational even before that.

Have you seen a video of an abortion? Have you seen the baby squirm and flinch and try to escape the blade as it slices into a shoulder or a hip, her mouth opening and closing in a silent scream as her arms and legs are ripped off at the joints?

I think you need to reconsder your position and look at all the angles, not just the end result you desire.

 

[The_Barrister]

Jacksquat89:

Those abortion techniques are rarely used. Also abortions are usually administered before the baby can feel, or at least it has not been proven that it can feel. Abortion is wrong, but lets get our facts straight.

You don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about. The majority of abortions occur after 10 weeks, the time in which a baby has an operational nervous system. They feel pain, and many doctors havfe testified to that fact. The abortionists simply claim they don’t know, a clear lie.

 

[puppylove]

For our salvation, this country must find a way to make abortion illegal. Lets encourage everyone to offer their rosary up for this cause today.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I don’t think that we will ever get a permanent ban on abortion, and if we do it will still exist and will cause more harm outlawed than being legal (sanitary issues and such). I do believe that the current system needs to be overhauled, however. Maybe all cases heard before a family judge or something? I also think that the father should have 50% say so in the matter since it is also his child. In the instances of rape and such, I think the mother should have the right to choose whether or not to give the kid up for adoption, raise it herself or have an abortion. Why should the mother be reminded every day of something that happened to her? Abortion won’t go away even it is outlawed and if someone really wants something they will have it, so I think reformation should be our goal, not a total outlaw.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Semper Fi:

Abortion won’t go away even it is outlawed .

So should we make murder on the streets legal also?

The Devil has your mindset right where he wants it!

 

[puppylove]

Semper Fi:

I don’t think that we will ever get a permanent ban on abortion, and if we do it will still exist and will cause more harm outlawed than being legal (sanitary issues and such). I do believe that the current system needs to be overhauled, however. Maybe all cases heard before a family judge or something? I also think that the father should have 50% say so in the matter since it is also his child. In the instances of rape and such, I think the mother should have the right to choose whether or not to give the kid up for adoption, raise it herself or have an abortion. Why should the mother be reminded every day of something that happened to her? Abortion won’t go away even it is outlawed and if someone really wants something they will have it, so I think reformation should be our goal, not a total outlaw.

Reformation??? Murder is murder my friend! The results of abortion are much worse than rape. Do you kow how many people want to adopt in this country? So many that they are going to other countries to get babies illegally. Bottom line…Abortion is final, the end, goodbye, you can never go back. Lets do what Jesus wants, LIFE!!! AMEN

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

seeker63:

A question for those 100% against abortion: when choosing who to vote for, if you disagree with everything a candidate stands for and think him an inept fool, but he happens to share your beliefs on abortion, do you vote for him? Is abortion THE ONLY issue you consider at the polls? Just curious…

This is a great question, and I’d be happy to answer it for you. We recently had a mayoral race where one candidate was a US Representative that voted to keep partial-birth abortion legal and the other candidate was a City Counselman who had some questionable ethical issues that came up during the campaigne. At the time, his ethical behavior was not a proven matter but was highly suspect (misplaced expense reports / questionable trips to Hawaii, etc.).

The question before me was this: Do I vote for the guy that has had questionable ethical behavior or do I vote for the guy I know does not respect the life within the womb of the mother - even to the point of birth?

The pro-murder of innocense candidate disqualified himself because of his stance on abortion. The question remaining for me was this: Was the other candidate worthy of my vote?

On election day, civil charges were not yet filed against the “questionable ethics” candidate so I decided to vote for him because his ethics were not proven to be faulty but were at this point “suspect”.

The pro-murder of innocense candidate won the election. A few days later, the candidate I voted for was charged with “neglect” for not filing proper expense reports. There was no evidence that he did anything unethical or illegal as was suspected during the campaigne.

Did this candidate sink himself? Yes, because he was sloppy with his paperwork. Is being a sloppy polititian worse than being a pro-murder of innocense politition? The answer was easy for this voter: pro-murder of innocense trumps being sloppy.

 

[Naphali]

We can all show disturbing pictures:

firethistime.org/extremedeformities.htm

I mean REALLY – I’m not talking about healthy children I’m talking about children with no brains or children with all their organs exposed – they are protected inside their mother and when they are born they suffer greatly – I don’t think the answer is to make them suffer a horrible limb tearing abortion but rather to find a way to peacefully end their suffering – much as you would disconnect to O2 on a loved one when you knew they were going to die and wanted the suffering to end –

And I’m not saying ALL the babies on the web-page are potentially suffering so much that they should have been allowed to expire but that some obviously did die at birth or shortly thereafter and why on earth do we have to make *them *suffer?

I am prolife, I am TOTALLY pro-life but I cannot impose that on people who have this sort of decision to make –

An example – I know a woman who found out about half way through her pregnancy that she was going to have a baby with a terrible heart defect – there is no way he would live for more than a few weeks without a heart transplant –

She was prepared to put him on a transplant list and pray for a miracle – then the doctors found out that he also had Downs. They told her that they don’t give healthy hearts to babies with Downs. So there was no chance they’d save her baby –

She told the doctors, fine, well when he arrives I want no heroic measures taken and I want to let him go the way God wants him to. The doctors told her that once he was born she’d loose that choice and his life would be prolonged for as long as possible – he was going to suffer for weeks at the hands of people who didn’t think he was worth saving.

She chose to abort that baby – I would not have made the decision she did but I know why she did it – They took away her choices for her son, she felt like she had no other choice. Heck she’s an atheist now because she can’t imagine a God that would put her son and her family through that – it’s not something I can explain to her.

There are cases that you aren’t thinking about there are people who’s lives are not as black and white as yours and mine – I know how I feel, I cannot impose that on others – I can’t say I know how they feel because I have been blessed with three healthy children – I can say that in the old pre-abortion days there were cases, like hers, that they would have permitted a merciful ending of the child’s life – sad, not something I could do, but something some people would choose and I think that God would understand …

 

[ProLifeAction]

Naphali:

There are cases that you aren’t thinking about there are people who’s lives are not as black and white as yours and mine –

God determines when life begins and when it ends. The cases are black & white but you fail to see the light.

 

[moedom]

I have been in the Right to Life movement for over 25 years now. With sadness I have seen countless of people who say they are Catholic and then turn around and say they are pro-choice with out even knowing what they are saying. It has to do with ignorance, a fact that was truly brought home to me at our last benefit dinner. We had a Denise Mountenay speak to us from Silent no More and there were not too many people in the audience who did not have a dry eye. The most interesting thing is that those who were on the fence were so surprised to hear the truth and now they have heard it they have realized that the media is just pumping out nothing but untruths. They have since changed their position and are now supporting this issue much more strongly. This was all with the help of the Holy Spirit of course. I could debate the issue the rest of my life and maybe gain a small foothold but real experiences are much more helpful and there are plenty of those if you “seek you shall find…”

In the end every body loses with an abortion.

Here is a great site for those who would like to see a 4d ultra sound. they also have a neat commercial.

gemedicalsystems.com/rad/us/4d/virtual.html

Moe

www.dvmrl.knows.it

 

[Naphali]

you fail to see the light.

Please don’t make determinations about my faith based on issues that I have stated where I stand but where I do not choose to make decisions for others … thank you very much.

 

[ProLifeAction]

moedom:

. It has to do with ignorance, a fact that was truly brought home to me at our last benefit dinner. We had a Denise Mountenay speak to us from Silent no More and there were not too many people in the audience who did not have a dry eye. The most interesting thing is that those who were on the fence were so surprised to hear the truth and now they have heard it they have realized that the media is just pumping out nothing but untruths

Yes one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard was from a woman named Yvonne Seaman from Silent No More. She was not supposed to speak at the event I went to but Joe Scheidler asked her to say a few words & wow this was one of the best heartfelt speeches I have ever seen.

Yvonne Seaman later gave a speech to the Northwestern Univ. Medical Students and had them all in awe. Yvonne had 5 abortions and her testimony against the Abortion Industry was awesome. If you ever get a chance to hear her speak, don’t miss it. She is from IL.

 

[ProLifeAction]

Naphali:

Please don’t make determinations about my faith based on issues that I have stated where I stand but where I do not choose to make decisions for others … thank you very much.

That’s just it. We need to put more faith into God. God will determine when life begins & when it ends, we don’t have to. Were NOT GOD!

 

[Naphali]

ok see, when I was expecting my twins I came very close to loosing them – I had emergency surgery and 18 weeks on bedrest after that to keep them where they should be – there were some people in the “we’re not God” camp who told me that to have the surgery was the wrong thing to do – there was a 10% chance the surgery would kill my babies, and an additional risk of infection causing pre-term labor after that – There was a 90% chance that if I didn’t get the surgery they’d be born before 24 weeks, the first one out would absolutely die and the second one out would probably die –

It’s a gray area, no I’m not God, we’re not able to make such decisions without his help – I put my babies lives at risk to save them.

babies are born with parasitic twins, they’re alive! But not without their host-twin – it’s a gray area – I’m not talking about playing God I’m talking about seeking his guidance and even when the “life is black and white” people come calling, being able to feel like you made the best decision for your family –

once again, I’m not talking about healthy children, even children that are unfortunately the product of abuse – I’m not even talking about mentally disabled children who will certainly live but have many issues I’m talking about children being born without BRAINS … it’s not like they’re going to live, they’re only going to suffer … life is not black and white. For many of us it may seem that way but for other’s it’s not –

and if abortion were illegal we’d end up with our previous system which was to mercifully allow those very few children I speak of to have their suffering ended. And I fully support THAT – I just can’t say 100% because I know that in .000001% of the cases there is a chance that a gray area will seep in …

 

[ProLifeAction]

Naphali,

I thought the topic of this thread is abortion? In your story you did not bring it up or maybe I missed something??

 

[Naphali]

It’s what I have for a personal reference – Is it ok to put my babies at risk to potentially save them? – the act of the surgery could have actively ended their lives –

It’s a gray area in this sort of debate. It’s something my Doctor said when we were discussing options – 1. abort 2. risky surgery 3. let it go and have them probably die – some people have the opinion in these sorts of chases that since “We’re not God” that we can’t make a choice that would actively end a child’s life even if the alternative is loosing the child anyway …

See, when you get into these things they do go off tangent – if there were absolutely no loopholes in abortion no loopholes even for a baby with no brain, all it’s organs outside of it’s body, etc. etc. etc. then they may find a way to close up a loophole that allowed my babies to live … I might have caused their deaths, quite intentionally too since I signed a paper releasing the hospital if it should happen … I felt it was my only choice to save them – but in reality there was another choice, I could have stayed in the hospital for the duration of my pregnancy hooked up on drugs on IVs on a bed with the feet tilted up and prayed for each passing hour that we’d get another hour …

I do see these things as related – we’re talking about pregnancy and hard choices … we’re not talking about pretty pink cherubs we’re talking about sick babies and terribly risky pregnancies.

Abortion is awful 99.99999999999% of the time it’s totally uncalled for and a horrible thing to do – Mercy – when a woman has an ectopic pregnancy the Church allows an abortion! why? because the alternative is having both the mother and baby die! The argument that they just remove the defective tube and the end result is that the baby dies unintentionally still means that the baby died because of a deliberate action that was taken that we knew would end it’s life.

This really isn’t something worth debating – if abortion were outlawed there would be loop holes for these cases – it just is how it is.

 

[ProLifeAction]

I really do not fully understand your example so I will just answer in plain terms. The decision to commit a direct abortion is always immoral.

If the mother has cancer which has to be removed right away during pregnancy to save the life of the mother and it indirectly kills the baby, then I would not consider this an abortion since the INTENT is to remove the cancer and not to commit a direct abortion.

The doctors goal should always be the option which can save all lives involved (the mother & the baby). Doctors need to get out of the business of murdering babies (abortion).

 

[kage_ar]

Donna -

In Australia a few years ago, a woman demanded an abortion. Her baby had been diagnosed with a debilitation condition, one that would make the child have many physical problems, multiple surgeries, and be so physically abnormal that they would attract stares everywhere for the entire life. This child would have a high likelyhood of passing this condition on to any children that he/she had. The mother, after finding this out, claimed she would kill herself if she was not given the abortion. The abortion was done.

What would you have done? The aborted child had dwarfism. I have pseudoachondroplastic dwarfism. I am a mother, a wife, a friend, a businessperson. I have had many major surgeries in my life, and will have many more, I live in pain every day.

I thank GOD for my life. Who decides what is a good life and what disabled children should die??? Let them LIVE.