About to give up on my faith

[Dolphin]

Trent Horn, famous Catholic Answers Apologist, has said he rarely if ever has these “personal experiences” that others talk about. He feels that he comes to his faith in God and his belief in Catholicism through rationality, evidence, and philosophy and he believes God gave him the gifts to see God in this way (and not personal experiences) so that he can help others who don’t experience these as well

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Mother Teresa struggled with doubt for almost all her adult life.

The real acid test of faith is when you’re not having any good “feels” and things are just kind of meh or even bad and you continue to believe anyway. It’s not supposed to feel good all the time. No pain, no gain. No cross, no crown.

All those Psalms going on and on about “I’m miserable, don’t abandon me, save me Lord” weren’t coming from someone in their happy place.

Whenever a doubt creeps into my mind I just think of all the saints I admire. Dozens and dozens of them. And I think, “They believed, and did great things, so why shouldn’t I believe too?” 10,000 saints, plus my parents, can’t be wrong.

 

[Dan_Defender]

in a way maybe you are blessed to never have had many or any experiences. Me on the otherhand have had more than I ever deserved. Why? Maybe because our Lord knows what a fool I am and I need all the help I can get.

I second this. Not only personal experiences but I remain in good health while others in my family suffer much. The Lord always helps the faithful.
To the OP: seems to me the problem is reason will only take you so far. Faith is a gift, set aside all your preconceptions and what others do, etc. and surrender to God, then you will truly believe. St John of the Cross says that only when we abandon our attachments: the senses and the world, then the soul is truly free.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Do you believe “that there is a God” (ie a First Cause, Creator, Supreme Being) at all?

Or are you figuring out the extent and boundaries of His involvement in our individual lives?

 

[SpaghettiCowboy]

I’m grateful to all of you for your comments on my post. I am apologizing in advance because I don’t know if I will be able to personally reply to everyone.

A few of you have focused on my notion of believers having had a “personal experience” and my lament that that has never happened to me. What I am trying to say is that it seems to me that many believers can point to moments-- those moments can be experiences, for sure, but also profound insights, and what they perceive to be real encounters with God. (I am envious of people who say that God led them or told them something.) I’ve received no such signals.

And when I “complain” of this to other Catholics (like my own spouse) or my pastor, they tell me I’m not listening hard enough. I find this answer… unsatisfactory.

I have wondered if I am created without that “sense” (there’s that word again) of the divine that others seem to have>

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am envious of people who say that God led them or told them something. I’ve received no such signals.

I know this doesn’t feel great, but I’m reminded of Adele Brise when Mother Mary appeared to her in the Bishop-approved apparition called Our Lady of Good Help. Adele was with two of her friends, but only she could see Mary. One of her friends said, “Oh, I wish I could see her!” and Mary heard her and said, “Blessed are they who believe without seeing.”

So, if you don’t have experiences, but hang in there anyway, you’re blessed.

 

[Buks]

I feel that I also could really use some signal(s) in my life. Maybe I’m experimenting with words here but the idea that came to me was, I could try to focus more on giving signals and not so much on receiving them.

 

[halogirl]

Ask for the Holy Spirit to make Himself known to you. Acknowledge your trust in Jesus through prayer. Keep going

 

[halogirl]

You have been convicted by the Holy Spirit and we are grateful for you Father

 

[OKComputer]

It’s not about personal experience. It’s about what’s true. The simple, humble faith of the monk is not one of grand impressions or of stirring emotions. It is a simple, confident, consistent “yes” to God.

I don’t believe because of personal experience. I believe because it makes sense. There was a certain point where the faith just made too much sense not to be true. I became convicted by the internal coherency of all of it. If that seems a bit dry or unfeeling, so be it. Better to simply say yes to God than to regret not feeling anything and to say no to him.

-Fr ACEGC

Father, you being here is such a blessing to us. Perfect answer.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

As a priest asked me at 27, now I’m 39, how is your prayer life?

Here are some resources that are very helpful.

Divine Office – Liturgy of the Hours of the Roman Catholic Church (Breviary)

Heart of the Nation :: The Rosary - Holy Rosary Online

I can attest that prior to an active prayer life, Catholicism was an intellectual exercise guided by reason. That is a great place to be, but only through prayer was I able to better form my Faith. In praying pray for others, pray for souls, pray for gratitude. Do an examination of conscience, look back on your life, brave feeling guilt for your sins, pray for repentance. Cry, grieve mourn for the sinner, ask for wisdom and innocence. Also, read the New Testament.

Have you done this? I won’t reach you intellectually or through reason. There is something deeper you must do. I think at the end of the process you will likely reject many aspects of the world.

 

[SpaghettiCowboy]

I am touched by your comments, PattyIt. Thank you.

I would venture to guess that many/most Catholics have never had a spiritual experience either. It just doesn’t seem to happen very often and frankly, I think even some of those that claim they have had such an experience may have created it because they needed one so badly.

If you’re right and many people manufacture spiritual experience, I wish they would admit it. We could form a “spiritual deficients” club and work through the issues.

I have heard a former Pentecostal say that he faked his “ecstatic” experience when he was called to the altar. (I don’t know the proper terminology for what they do.) He further claims he was told, by the pastor no less, not to worry because everyone does it.

…stay and learn to deal with the dryness.

I have done that for a while. I stay, but for the people, those good Catholics-- like my faithful spouse and my many good friends-- who believe with all their hearts. I don’t want to cause them distress, or strange to say, impede their salvation. But I feel like a phony.

Catholicism, and Christianity in general, are fascinating to me. I love to discuss and can engage knowledgeably; but the urgency of the Gospel has faded from me. I wonder if it was ever there to begin with.

 

[SpaghettiCowboy]

I tell my church friends that my patron saint is St. Thomas the Apostle.

And I’m hanging in there mostly because of those friends’ and my wife’s loving influence. But hanging turns out to be an apt metaphor, since I fear that my soul is standing on the scaffold.

 

[SpaghettiCowboy]

Thanks for commenting.

Yes, I find the “first cause” argument to be compelling. But it’s a long, long way from deism to Christian theism and I’m not sure I have what it takes to make it back.

 

[RepetantCatholic]

Well, I’m probably being unwise, but you used the term “deism.” Very theoretical. The original concept of deism was formulated in the enlightenment and had particular beliefs. Now, it’s a non word like theist, coined by the internet unfaithful.

I read my original post to you, and I guess I must sound like a crackpot, but that is only relative to people of the world. I did mention in the end through enough prayer, you would reject many aspects of the world. I include with that the world’s insistence on being smart instead of wise. Wisdom is universal to the human experience, smart is a calculator.

I’m not asking you to have a miraculous experience, I’m asking you to feel God not think God.

 

[SpaghettiCowboy]

No, you don’t sound like a crackpot, and I do appreciate your effort to give me some advice. As a matter of fact, your description of your faith before developing a more active prayer life as an “intellectual exercise guided by reason” sounds a lot like mine now.

My reference to “deism” was part of my response to another poster who asked if I still believed in God, “ie a First Cause, Creator…,” in other words, a deistic-type God. My answer is yes, but I wanted to point out that the question doesn’t get you very far when we’re talking about God as proclaimed by most Christians.

I must say, also, that your admonition to feel, rather than think, God is the opposite of other advice I’m getting here. It does approach the problem, though, that prompted me to come to this site in the first place. Your proposed solution is to work on my prayer life. I understand your point, but I find getting better at prayer to be difficult when I’m not-- and I’ve got to find a better way to express this-- feeling it. I did get other advice to not worry about that and “just do it.” Perhaps by not worrying about feeling God and just praying I’ll eventually get to feeling God. Hmm…

 

[AlNg]

It’s about what’s true.

I am not sure it is about that because there are many things that Catholics thought were true in the past, but are not thought to be true today.

 

[Neithan]

Faith is about what is true, which is why the church has revealed dogmas, such as the Resurrection and Incarnation. Other teachings may not be essential or are not certain and so are not de fide.

 

[Bixx]

And I don’t think I’m looking for proof in the way we commonly understand it. There’s a confidence that I used to have that accepted the inevitability of doubt, but was not derailed by it. Hard to explain.

It’s late here, so forgive me if this isn’t well written-
this is something to maybe consider or pray about later -
it sounds like this above Was perhaps a grace given to you by God. That confidence and acceptance/ feeling. Sometimes when we are given such a certainty as you’ve stated having before, it can be Jesus close with us and then he allows us on our own to grow.

 

[MNathaniel]

Brother, are you familiar with St. Ignatius’s rules for discernment?

One of them is to never change course or make a decision while in a state of desolation. Choices and course changes are only to be made in times of consolation. And it sounds like you’re in a state of desolation.

Is there any opportunity near you for an Ignatian Discernment retreat? Or maybe, given the pandemic, you could find an online source of guidance (hopefully one that helps you apply the principles to your own concrete life situation).

The one other thing that popped to my mind… I’m one of those people who God has given direct experience of Himself, in ways that I will never be able to consider self-deception or wishful thinking (it’d be some amazing self deception if that turned out to be the case).

I mention that because while you don’t know me and have no reason to trust me… do you know anyone you do trust, whether still living or now sleeping, who similarly expressed concrete confidence in God and His Catholic Church, rooted in a kind of experience or knowledge you haven’t personally had? Someone whose witness you can trust? That is, perhaps trust that even if you haven’t personally experienced something, you can trust the witness of the martyred apostles, for example?

Final thought: wiser and more spiritually grown people than me have written about the spiritual life as involving ‘troughs’ in which God grows us even more than in the ‘peak’ periods. It may be that at this very moment you’re closer to Christ than you realize. Please, continue to pray to God… perhaps, “I do believe: help my unbelief!”