About to give up on my faith

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It seems like you think you have a problem that you don’t really have.

St. Francis de Sales was dealing with a similar phenomenon with his disciple St. Jane de Chantal… he insisted that losing the “taste” for the Faith was no matter at all, and implied it would hinder her no more than losing the sense of natural taste would in natural life… Sight is more important for life.

You should not expect anything too marvelous here… maybe the real problem is the expectation of special experiences… Well, read the saints, apparitions and locutions are blind guides, let alone a “sense” of God. The devil hides himself in such things quite easily.
 
Can it truly be an experience of God if you’re not aware of that experience?
Huh? You’re certainly aware of how it feels to love your wife and kids and be loved back.

I agree with Neithan and kapp19 that you seem to have fallen into a trap of associating the experience of God with some mystical happening or private revelation. We’re not supposed to desire those experiences. People only have them if and when God wills, and sometimes he says no.

You need to adjust your thinking of what constitutes “experience of God”. I personally feel I experience God every time I have a kind or loving interaction with people or even with animals. When my cat comes to me wanting to be petted, that’s an expression of God’s love in making a creature and sending it to be my friend. When I’m depressed or anxious and I see some beautiful clouds or a cute little bunny, that’s an experience of God coming to me through nature. Even having a good lunch is an experience of God providing tasty food for me to eat.

Sure it would be nice to see God appearing on a cloud, but it’s not necessary and I’m not going to get all hung up on it not happening.
 
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You need to adjust your thinking of what constitutes “experience of God”.
This is exactly the point of all of this. We shouldn’t strive after mystical experiences or apparitions or anything like that. Faith is an act of the will, just like love. Marriage isn’t always fireworks, it isn’t always exciting, there are low moments, and there are even moments where nothing particularly exciting is going on. I would imagine this is true most of the time. We can’t eat birthday cake every day, as it were, and this is true of human relationships and consolations from God.

In response to your question of me upthread, I just found myself convicted by how reasonable the faith was, how everything fit together. There’s a freedom in recognizing that coherency. I don’t have to figure out how to act, I just realize that God is rationality itself, and ordered the world in a sensible way, and if I want to experience happiness and fulfillment, I should act in a way that makes sense. There’s a music, a harmony to the reasonableness of the world. Demonstrations of the existence of God and even just the structure of logic were what really moved me to see that God was behind it all. The world is put together in a sensible way by a sensible God.

Honestly, that you’ve gotten such support and such assistance in this thread is a reflection of the goodness of God and his truth, found in those speaking to you here. There’s your experience of God.
 
Ok, I think I need to back up a bit. I’ve managed to give a number of you the idea that I am seeking some sort of ecstatic experience, like getting struck by a bolt of lightning from God, actually witnessing a reprise of the Transfiguration, or living like a holy mystic.That’s not what I’m saying.

I’ve mentioned several times the notion of having a “sense” of God, of God’s presence. I’ve also expressed that the word, sense, seems inadequate, but that I haven’t been able to think of a better one. How to define it? Well, with apologies first to Boston, it’s “more than a feeling” and less than a “personal revelation.”

My assertion is that many fellow Christians, both Catholic and Protestant, claim, in one way or another, to have this sense-- when they pray, worship, take communion, meditate quietly, listen to music, hug their kids, walk in nature, you name it. This doesn’t have to happen every time, but it happens in such a way they are convinced they have an awareness of God’s presence.

If I am wrong about this, if everyone is like me, that they generally know the tenets of their faith, and they know that God hears their prayers because, the Church teaches that God hears their prayers and not because of any personal sense that God is hearing their prayers, them I am here on a fool’s errand.

If, however, they mean what I take them to mean when they say things like, “God led me to make this decision” or “I heard God’s call to my vocation” or “I felt Jesus’ healing hand during my illness” then I am a spiritual deficient, because I do not “experience” that sort of thing.

Does this in any way clarify what I’ve been trying to convey?
 
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If I am wrong about this, if everyone is like me, that they generally know the tenets of their faith, and they know that God hears their prayers because, the Church teaches that God hears their prayers and not because of any personal sense that God is hearing their prayers, them I am here on a fool’s errand.

If, however, they mean what I take them to mean when they say things like, “God led me to make this decision” or “I heard God’s call to my vocation” or “I felt Jesus’ healing hand during my illness” then I am a spiritual deficient, because I do not “experience” that sort of thing.

Does this in any way clarify what I’ve been trying to convey?
I think, as others have suggested, you’re overthinking it. Hearing the God calling us to do this or that doesn’t necessarily mean that we hear an auditory voice. I had a seminary professor who used to tell us that circumstances were God’s marching orders in our lives. That was certainly borne out by the fact that I found my vocation by following a series of “next logical steps.” And I would say I found it through the influence of the people in my life, especially my dear friends. God spoke to me through my relationships with them.

Pray, study the faith, say yes to God each day. That’s the experience of God. Simply knowing his presence and obeying his Church and living each day as a reflection of that.

-Fr ACEGC
 
I think, as others have suggested, you’re overthinking it.
True that.
Hearing the God calling us to do this or that doesn’t necessarily mean that we hear an auditory voice.
With all due respect, that’s not what I said. I think I took great pains to explain that my notion of “sense” wasn’t anything like a literal voice of God. But the fact that I have been unable to communicate my meaning adequately is my own fault.

Your advice remains consistent, of course: live your faith, do what you know you should, and don’t worry about lacking a “sense” of God. He knows what He’s doing even if you don’t.

Thank you for taking the time to help.
 
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As I’ve said, I’m a priest, I do this for a living, I say Mass every day. I never really feel anything. There are moments of consolation, to be sure, but they’re there to encourage, not for the totality of my nourishment, so to speak.
 
There’s a music, a harmony to the reasonableness of the world. Demonstrations of the existence of God and even just the structure of logic were what really moved me to see that God was behind it all. The world is put together in a sensible way by a sensible God.
I totally agree. The atheists can never explain the diversity of life, any ecosystem could be in perfect balance with less than a hundred species, yet we have millions, that cannot be a result of chance.
 
Not to pile on, but I’ve seen a lot of these sorts of discussion threads over the years, not only on CAF but on other forums and social media. Catholics about to give up because they just aren’t feeling it. And it seems that there is a desire to feel something — not necessarily a mystical experience; but you’re looking for some kind of feeling. That way leads to superstition. Our faith is, as Fr. @edward_george1 said, about the truth. You will have a much stronger faith if it is built on convictions of truth rather than some vague feelings. We cannot “sense” God directly, it’s not in the capability of our mortal nature. We experience the effects of God, and that’s nothing short of the totality of created existence. Some might have private revelations, but I think the vast majority of us believe without sensing anything.
 
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Question for you all…

I agree that we certainly shouldn’t expect auditory voices, bolts of lightening, visions of Jesus hovering above…but aren’t we at least expected to have feelings of peace or satisfaction or a calming effect or…something to feel as though we are being heard? I had big struggles like the OP did, too. I just never even felt a sense of calm overcoming me when distressed. I never felt like I was being heard in any way, shape or form. All I ever felt at all was alone in my thoughts and prayers. And it is hard to describe!

The famous line of be still and know that I am God…I couldn’t even get a feeling of stillness. You know how sometimes you can feel someone’s presence in a room before you actually see them? Shouldn’t we, at the least, get that type of sensation once in a while? Others claim this happens though only on occasion. I would have settled on having it happen once!

What more can one do when reaching out like that, needing that desperately, yet never gets it at all? I don’t know that @SpaghettiCowboy is in this situation but if he is…what can one do? More prayer, more adoration, more reading? I really wish I knew! I did give up. I just couldn’t go on like that but I really hope he finds something that helps.
 
I’ve said quite a bit in this topic about having a sense of the presence of God, or in my case, not having such a sense. A number of my interlocutors here have concluded, despite my efforts to explain otherwise, that my problem is that I’m seeking some kind of emotional gratification experience, that I’m distressed I’m not feelin’ the faith, and that I won’t be satisfied by anything less than a mystic vision or being knocked off a horse and hearing the voice of Jesus. I don’t think this is what I am after at all. In fact, I have tried to intentionally reduce the influence of emotion in my life for a good chunk of my late adulthood.

Others are telling me that I am “experiencing God,” perhaps without realizing it, in everything. This appears to me to be a tautology, as in, if you are experiencing creation, you are experiencing the Creator. But this is not the personal encounter with God that many Catholics seem to claim they have, but which I am told here that I am wrong to expect.

I am certainly overthinking this. But that’s the way my mind works when considering the “big questions.”

Unless I’ve missed something from earlier in the thread, you’re the only one, Roguish, who has brought up intuition. Can you tell me what you think intuition is?
Like anyone raised in the modern world, you’ve been thoroughly trained to trust your faculty of reason much more than your intuition, and so it is mainly (or entirely) through reason that you have related to Catholicism up to this point in your life.
This is true, and I have bought completely into the idea that reason should rule our minds and actions. I don’t blame the “modern world” solely for this development since I believe there has been a parallel modern development that selfishly privileges emotional expression and experience to a dangerous degree. I think emotion has gotten me-- and everyone else-- into trouble and should therefore be rightly controlled.

Further, I see intuition as just a small step beyond emotion, so I have taught myself not to trust my intuition, as well. (Intuition is problematic for me in another way that I might explain later.) As your concept of intuition might be a different from mine, I asked you to define it.
But maybe you’re being too harsh on yourself? You speak of your “hypocrisy”. But hypocrisy is the feigning of piety. I don’t think that applies to you at all.
That’s the problem. I think it does apply to me. I said in my original post that my faith is primarily intellectual and has never penetrated into my soul. That doesn’t sound like a pious person to me. Most of my friends think better of me, though, because I’m good at explaining the faith and am eager to do so-- but it’s always an essentially academic exercise.

(More in subsequent post-- I ran out of room.)
 
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Child-likeness does not mean we must become infantile. It means we must go back to trusting our intuition more than our reason, as children typically do…
If this is what Christ meant, then maybe I don’t have the difficulty with the teaching that I thought I did.

But I might have a different difficulty with intuition. If you’re up to it, I would definitely like to discuss further, because…
… reason can confirm faith and therefore be compatible with it, reason can also attack faith, while intuition absolutely cannot.
… I don’t believe this (in bold) to be true.
 
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You may have explained my view better in your brief post, PattyIt, than I did in all my bloviation.
 
Hi Spaghetti Cowboy, thanks for your question - this is what Saint Augustine says
"Lord, you have made us for yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in you "
Is it possible that we catholics approach the whole question in a overly intellectual way ? I like the directness of the protestant emphasis on the person of Jesus Himself. If I were a doctor of souls I would prescribe that you purchase a copy of the ’ Life of Christ ’ by Fulton J Sheen ( an uncanonised saint ). Try and read one chapter a day . You can speak to Jesus as if He were a real person. He Is.
 
If I were a doctor of souls I would prescribe that you purchase a copy of the ’ Life of Christ ’ by Fulton J Sheen ( an uncanonised saint ).
I read “Life of Christ” (100 short chapters) by Saint Bonaventure (13th century) last year. Very helpful. Reading a life of Christ (like that of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen or St. Bonaventure) could be a good move. But, I’ve had some type of faith fairly consistently since a good experience in first Holy Communion classes at age 7. And, I would say that the faith of my youth has continued to be nurtured and to grow. We need to add to our faith (2 Peter 1:5ff)

This is an imperative as stated in one of the epistles of Peter: Grow in the faith and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18)

The Apostles’ Creed and Nicene Creed give us content for our faith and leads us to believe in “one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church”. We need to believe in what it says. We need to believe in Head and Body (Christ and the Church).

Also, @SpaghettiCowboy, FYI, I did mention “intuition” in an earlier post (as did @Roguish and others)
 
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Wake up; put some resolve into what little vigour you have left: it is dying fast. So far I have failed to notice anything in your behaviour that my God could possibly call perfect; remember how you first heard the message. Hold on to that. Repent! If you do not wake up, I shall come to you like a thief, and you will have no idea at what hour I shall come upon you. (Letter to the Church at Sardis in Revelation 3 - New Jerusalem Bible)
In your life history of practicing Catholicism, what parts of what you have received and heard exist that can be re-remembered and built upon?

Have you read much of the Papal Magisterium? What things have you read that have been meaningful to you? Who was your confirmation saint? What was your faith like as a child? When did you feel closest to God? Build upon what you can build upon.
 
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Shouldn’t we, at the least, get that type of sensation once in a while?
Let’s ask whether this sensation itself is something supernatural or natural. If supernatural, then it’s something miraculous, and I don’t think most of us have directly experienced the miraculous (as in a sensible wonder with no natural explanation). Faith is from God and about God, so it has a supernatural source and object, but it also involves our natural responses and efforts: one of these is trust. Any feelings of God’s presence then — which are not miraculous — are a natural result of trusting that he is actually present. There is no way of knowing (naturally) that this is anything other than an imaginary friend — other than our faith.

This kind of realization is maybe what the OP is dealing with i.e. “the Emperor has no clothes”: there’s no one there. But that’s really the same thing as saying, “I realize I do not/no longer have faith that the Emperor is real.” If a Catholic thinks that there is some way of knowing, without faith, at least in this life, then they are going to be disappointed when nothing miraculous happens to them. Compare how similar this is to atheists who say they don’t (and won’t) believe because nothing miraculous happens to them.
 
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A number of my interlocutors here have concluded, despite my efforts to explain otherwise, that my problem is that I’m seeking some kind of emotional gratification experience, that I’m distressed I’m not feelin’ the faith, and that I won’t be satisfied by anything less than a mystic vision or being knocked off a horse and hearing the voice of Jesus.
If you agree with @Pattylt then you’re looking for some kind of feeling, right? If it’s not a feeling then it’s something intellectual, or miraculous.
But this is not the personal encounter with God that many Catholics seem to claim they have, but which I am told here that I am wrong to expect.
You’re not wrong to expect this; but at some point, I suspect, you got the wrong idea of what this is and looked forward to something that never happened. If you’ve read the gospel and received communion, you have had as much of a personal encounter with God as our faith can offer you, without some miraculous intervention or private revelation in your life.
 
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The famous line of be still and know that I am God…I couldn’t even get a feeling of stillness. You know how sometimes you can feel someone’s presence in a room before you actually see them? Shouldn’t we, at the least, get that type of sensation once in a while? Others claim this happens though only on occasion. I would have settled on having it happen once!
I always get a sense of peace from attending Adoration. Just from my personal observation, a lot of people go with the wrong attitude. Their heart is not in the right place. They say, show me a sign first, then I’ll believe or approach God with a thousand doubts and preconceptions. No. God does not owe us anything, approach with humility and a patient open heart, and He will give you peace.
 
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