Abstinence in marriage

[Rascalking]

Except for the the fact that young, healthy couples have reasons to abstain too.

I’m currently 38 weeks pregnant and have a low-lying placenta. I’m perfectly healthy but as a precaution my husband and I are abstaining from sex and have been for some time. We’re experiencing sacrificial love in action and it’s only enhanced our marital intimacy. It’s confirmed for me that I’m married to a man who is willing to, in the words of JPII, “Do whatever love requires”.

This does not fall into the norm. There are reasons to abstain, but because there are reasons to abstain that does not mean that abstinence in marriage while sexual contact can be a healthy and unifying and there are no other reasons for abstinece is healthy.l

 

[ironband]

NFP is not working, so abstinence is our only option right now to space our child.

What I would like to hear in this thread are people’s positive experiences of abstinence. Can it be beneficial to a marriage? If yes, how? Please give me examples.

God bless,
Ut

OK - a bit of background for context: we had our third child in January. He was our third C-section, and so we have been cautioned that another child could put mom and the child at risk statistically. And we’re breastfeeding…and so mom’s cycles have not returned, and we are unwilling to risk a pregnancy at this time. Ergo…the last 8 months have been months of abstinence, and I figure there will be at least another 4 months, if not more.

I was not very well formed in my faith when we had our first two children. We used abc, and I nearly had a vascectomy after our second was born…but then we had a conversion of heart and began practicing NFP. Six years later, we felt called to have another child, and so here we are.

I’ll add that about a year ago I finally overcame (by the grace of God through the sacrament of reconciliation) an addiction to pornography and masturbation.

So, outside of naturally occurring nocturnal emissions, the last 8 months have been without any sexual activity on my part.

I am happier than I have ever been. My marriage is flourishing. We are clicking as a team. I have a lot of desire for my wife, too. But I have placed that desire in its proper order and context. I’ve read a lot of material derived from JPII’s theology of the body (and am starting to delve into the actual audiences), and it has really changed the way I look at the gift of sexuality, at my wife, at other women, and myself. I’m finally living a chaste Christian life in a chaste marriage the way I wish I had been all the while.

Is it a struggle sometimes? Yes. Do I look forward to the day when my wife and I can resume normal relations? Of course! Am I still affectionate with my wife? You bet.

I think that the real key here is not the abstinence, though. The key is living a life of chastity. We are all called to be chaste in our lives, and for those of us called to the vocation of marriage, we are called to chastity. And if we practice that chastity, extended periods of abstinence become a cross less difficult to bear. They can become a beautiful offering to God and to one another. We stop objectifying each other and truly see each other as God sees us. I read the Song of Songs and think of “my sister, my bride” and am moved with love. Not just my love for her, but the love that God has for each of us.

So, yes, I think that abstinence can be beneficial to a marriage, but only if the meaning of chastity within that marriage is already understood. If it is not, we get upset about what we are being denied, rather than focus on denying ourselves. If our marriage properly images the marriage of Christ to his Church, it becomes a joy born of love to sacrifice for one another.

Great books, in my opinion, are Christopher West’s Introduction to the Theology of the Body and The Good News About Sex and Marriage, and Jason Evert’s Theology of the Body for Him/Her (even though it is geared towards teens, it lays a great foundation). They are easy to read and, again in my opinion, capture the essense of JPII’s wisdom on the topic.

To the poster who mentioned how we marginalize other sins and focus so much on sexual sins, I agree with you to an extent. But, I found that I was not really able to deal with the other sins in my life until I deveoped a mastery over myself in this regard. I think that there is a lot of wisdom in Jason Evert’s observation (paraphrasing) that our sexuality is actually so good and holy, it makes sense that the Tempter and the world would attack and distort it the most. So, yeah, maybe we do focus on our sexual sin a lot. But in my case, I really couldn’t move past the other sins until I got this one under control.

Anyway, utunumsint, you and your family are in my prayers. I my opinion, extended periods of abstinence can be beneficial to a marriage, but only if practiced and understood in the proper context of chastity in marriage.

 

[whm]

The difference is that they are supposed to remain celibate and they do not have a married companion close by to distract them from their celibacy.
PennitentMan;5587474:

A priest has a whole other life to deal with. Married people are supposed to be together, to love each other and to form a unit. They still sleep together, see each other naked, kiss and hug each other…Do you have any idea how damaging it is to a marriage to life with your love, but are not allowed to show her?

Yes, but as you point out latter, there are other ways to express your love for each other.

I know there are other ways to show love, and they are all valid….I tried them all, but trust me, within a marriage, the embrace is paramount to a healthy marriage. And I’m not talking about circumstances where it’s impossible to engage in it, like was touched on previously.

It is beneficial, but I wouldn’t say “paramount to a healthy marriage”.

I’m talking about keeping a couple of healthy married people, how are both in the mood to do it, from engaging in sex for a very prolonged period of time.
It’s destructive. It’s a simple as that.

It is difficult to be sure, but it does not always have to be destructive. It is destructive if it is not mutually agreed upon. If it is agreed upon, the abstaining couple should avoid “getting into the mood”. This is the really hard part for the man because we often “get into the mood” without thinking about it.

 

[PennitentMan]

Yes, but as you point out latter, there are other ways to express your love for each other.

yeah. I also mentioned that I tried them all and there is nothing that replaces the embrace in a marriage. Nothing at all.

It is beneficial, but I wouldn’t say “paramount to a healthy marriage”.

Okay, You’d say that. Have you been through what the OP has? I’m actually asking, because I haven’t followed your previous posts to be honest.

It is difficult to be sure, but it does not always have to be destructive. It is destructive if it is not mutually agreed upon. If it is agreed upon, the abstaining couple should avoid “getting into the mood”. This is the really hard part for the man because we often “get into the mood” without thinking about it.

So, you just proved my point somewhat. It’s not really all in our control, is it? We fight it according to the rules, but your body and mind yearns for your partner. At some point this clash will turn ugly…maybe it turns inwardly and the drive gets focused on masturbation and pornography. It may turn outwards and cause arguments with your wife, or it may cause you to find what you crave elsewhere. Trust me, these things can happen without you even are aware that they are starting to happen…
So, if you haven’t walked a mile in his shoes, then you can’t really comment on exactly how hard it is and what he’s going through.

The point I’m trying to make, everyone, is that the rules that are given to you are not 100% accurate. Not in all circumstances. In some circumstances the rules do more damage, and they break up marriages.
Would Jesus make such rules?

 

[whatevergirl]

yeah. I also mentioned that I tried them all and there is nothing that replaces the embrace in a marriage. Nothing at all.

Okay, You’d say that. Have you been through what the OP has? I’m actually asking, because I haven’t followed your previous posts to be honest.

So, you just proved my point somewhat. It’s not really all in our control, is it? We fight it according to the rules, but your body and mind yearns for your partner. At some point this clash will turn ugly…maybe it turns inwardly and the drive gets focused on masturbation and pornography. It may turn outwards and cause arguments with your wife, or it may cause you to find what you crave elsewhere. Trust me, these things can happen without you even are aware that they are starting to happen…
So, if you haven’t walked a mile in his shoes, then you can’t really comment on exactly how hard it is and what he’s going through.

The point I’m trying to make, everyone, is that the rules that are given to you are not 100% accurate. Not in all circumstances. In some circumstances the rules do more damage, and they break up marriages.
Would Jesus make such rules?

*Jesus was tested, was part human…Jesus was celibate. So, yes, just looking at sheer history and logic, yes, Jesus could make “such rules.” The thing to remember is we never bear our crosses ALONE. It’s when we begin to think that we are all alone in following Church ‘rules,’ that is where things turn ugly. *

 

[PennitentMan]

I should have added to that…what I mean by posting ‘with God all things are possible,’ that if a priest can take a vow of celibacy for a lifetime…we can abstain for certain periods of time. A priest can be tempted just like a married person, I would imagine.

Yeah, but the priest doesn’t have to live with his temptation. That was my point.
Priests are tempted like we are tempted when we see an attractive person passing us by during work time, or during our commute or at the mall…not living with them. It’s a whole different scenario.

That said, what is the alternative then, in your eyes, PM…birth control? Or other acts that don’t involve the marital embrace…or end in intercourse? You left the faith, but as I recall, your wife was ill (?)…and the marital embrace was a hardship…and therefore abstaining was what you were doing. That said, how did leaving the faith change that? I’m sincerely asking the question.

Yes, my wife was ill, and still is ill.
The reason we were abstaining though was not because of that. It was because we were not capable of having more kids….financially, and specifically emotionally and physically (health reasons with pregnancy).
Fertility wise we are super fertile and with irregular cycles, NFP methods just didn’t work…at all.
We came to a point where we realized that if we were to survive any longer at all (physically speaking), according to the church, all we can do is abstain indefinitely. We actually agreed to this and practiced it when after a while we started noticing what it was doing to us.

So, the church put us into a situation where we were overloaded and overburdened and the only thing that the told us that we were allowed to do to keep going on was to abstain indefinitely, Essentially have a celibate marriage.
We followed this in faith until we realized that the walls are crumbling around us.

That’s when I took matters into my own hands and got our family out and made us happy again…something that the church failed horribly in.

Sorry, WhateverGirl, I don’t mean to be rude to you, it’s just how it went.

 

[PennitentMan]

*Jesus was tested, was part human…Jesus was celibate. So, yes, just looking at sheer history and logic, yes, Jesus could make “such rules.” The thing to remember is we never bear our crosses ALONE. It’s when we begin to think that we are all alone in following Church ‘rules,’ that is where things turn ugly. *

Once again though, Jesus wasn’t married, so essentially his life could be likened to priests’ lives, but not married people.

Of course we bear our crosses alone. We were told that there’s nothing they could do for us other than remain celibate. no help, no assistance. No help with babysitting so that my wife coudl get well enough again for us to even go on a date…nothing. No, we are bearing our crosses alone.
Even if the church doesn’t want to help, then they say that Jesus is still there and he helps…Man how I prayed for something…honestly, sincerely and humbly. Nothing. At the end there was nothing for me to do except make it work ourselves but removing us from the detrimental situation.

 

[whatevergirl]

Yeah, but the priest doesn’t have to live with his temptation. That was my point.
Priests are tempted like we are tempted when we see an attractive person passing us by during work time, or during our commute or at the mall…not living with them. It’s a whole different scenario.

Yes, my wife was ill, and still is ill.
The reason we were abstaining though was not because of that. It was because we were not capable of having more kids….financially, and specifically emotionally and physically (health reasons with pregnancy).
Fertility wise we are super fertile and with irregular cycles, NFP methods just didn’t work…at all.
We came to a point where we realized that if we were to survive any longer at all (physically speaking), according to the church, all we can do is abstain indefinitely. We actually agreed to this and practiced it when after a while we started noticing what it was doing to us.

So, the church put us into a situation where we were overloaded and overburdened and the only thing that the told us that we were allowed to do to keep going on was to abstain indefinitely, Essentially have a celibate marriage.
We followed this in faith until we realized that the walls are crumbling around us.

That’s when I took matters into my own hands and got our family out and made us happy again…something that the church failed horribly in.

Sorry, WhateverGirl, I don’t mean to be rude to you, it’s just how it went.

*Oh, PM, one thing you are not, is rude. I didn’t mean to pry:blush:…I asked because I wondered what changed being away from the Church. So, basically, you were worried that your wife would become pregnant using NFP, for the reasons you indicate, and therefore, NFP felt like a “gamble”…so complete abstinence was the only sure way she wouldn’t get pregnant. Ok. So, my question is…how does moving away from the Church change that? You both now use ABC, or do things outside of the marital embrace to avoid conception? I’m not trying to pry, lol–but, leaving Church authority on this matter, had to lead you to an alternative…in order for you both ‘to be happy,’ now…is what I’m asking.

Wha should the Church have said to you both, given your situation, if not ‘complete abstinence?’ (to bring you both to happiness) *

 

[Em_in_FL]

Once again though, Jesus wasn’t married, so essentially his life could be likened to priests’ lives, but not married people.

Of course we bear our crosses alone. We were told that there’s nothing they could do for us other than remain celibate. no help, no assistance. No help with babysitting so that my wife coudl get well enough again for us to even go on a date…nothing. No, we are bearing our crosses alone.
Even if the church doesn’t want to help, then they say that Jesus is still there and he helps…Man how I prayed for something…honestly, sincerely and humbly. Nothing. At the end there was nothing for me to do except make it work ourselves but removing us from the detrimental situation.

I am always and sincerely sorry to hear your story. I have no question that you indeed felt like you had no other choice.

I have been in similar situations… physically, mentally, financially unable to take on another pregnancy. We just chose to take different paths. I chose to go see doctors to treat the root of my illnesses. We chose to do whatever we had to do for private “couple time” (babysitters are everywhere - but God doesn’t just drop them out of the sky). I chose to read each and every NFP book I could get my hands on. I chose to call my instructors regularly, and ask for other contacts if they could not answer my questions. My illnesses were lessened by seeking help from my doctors and then my fertility itself was then corrected to be much more regular and predictable - and healthier. We were then able to embrace regularly and often!!.. praying always for those things that hinder another pregnancy to go away!

To others struggling - there IS another path… and it doesn’t *have *to end with leaving the faith!

 

[PennitentMan]

Oh, PM, one thing you are not, is rude. I didn’t mean to pry:blush:…

Thanks, I appreciate that!

I asked because I wondered what changed being away from the Church. So, basically, you were worried that your wife would become pregnant using NFP, for the reasons you indicate, and therefore, NFP felt like a “gamble”…so complete abstinence was the only sure way she wouldn’t get pregnant.

Actually, not quite. NFP was more than a gamble, it was proven to us on more than one occasion that it just does not work. It’s not a gamble for us, it’s a certainty that we will get pregnant if we stick to NFP…and we were using super-strict NFP.
The risk of getting pregnant again is also fatal for a few reasons, so there was no choice.

I thought I’d clarify because you phrased it as just an easy cop-out.

Ok. So, my question is…how does moving away from the Church change that? You both now use ABC, or do things outside of the marital embrace to avoid conception? I’m not trying to pry, lol–but, leaving Church authority on this matter, had to lead you to an alternative…in order for you both ‘to be happy,’ now…is what I’m asking.

No you are not prying, that’s the beauty of anonymous internet forums! Lol! And you are right. We are now on ABC…actually, she is, for hormonal reasons more than pregnancy reasons, because I had a vasectomy. That was my choice though but we would have been just as happy with simple condom use. And we were for a long time before my vasectomy.

What should the Church have said to you both, given your situation, if not ‘complete abstinence?’ (to bring you both to happiness)

Allow condoms. That would be a good start, it could also be where it ends, but they HAVE to realize that their rules are causing damage and that they have the power to change, even slightly, the happiness of their parishioners.

But, I know they won’t, they have these teachings sewed up so tight that if they change the slightest thing, they will prove themselves wrong and in essence show that their teachings are not infallible.
But the fact that there are so many married couples suffering (not to mention the AIDS pandemic in Africa) should already be a hint to everyone that their teachings are not infallible, since it’s causing marriages to break up and death….but by announcing a change in the rules they would openly admit to un-infallibility.

So, there is no way for them to do anything without making their playhouse fall down, so they just look the other way and keep on forcing good folks down very dark, gloomy and depressing corridors.

 

[whm]

yeah. I also mentioned that I tried them all and there is nothing that replaces the embrace in a marriage. Nothing at all.

Okay, You’d say that. Have you been through what the OP has? I’m actually asking, because I haven’t followed your previous posts to be honest.

Fair enough, 5 or 6 years and maybe 3 times in the last 9 years, so I do know exactly what he is talking about. I am 37 years old. In my case and I expect many others, there is something else involved besides just delaying children.

So, you just proved my point somewhat. It’s not really all in our control, is it? We fight it according to the rules, but your body and mind yearns for your partner. At some point this clash will turn ugly…maybe it turns inwardly and the drive gets focused on masturbation and pornography. It may turn outwards and cause arguments with your wife, or it may cause you to find what you crave elsewhere. Trust me, these things can happen without you even are aware that they are starting to happen…

Yes, I agree these things can happen, that is why it has to be a mutual decision, with lots of communication. Love is action not just feeling. It is sacrifice it is self denial.

The point I’m trying to make, everyone, is that the rules that are given to you are not 100% accurate. Not in all circumstances. In some circumstances the rules do more damage, and they break up marriages.

The rules don’t break up marriages. It is the people who don’t embrace all the teachings that have the most difficulty. If you believe that you must be as happy as possible in this life, you are going to have a real problem whether it be abstinence, money, free time etc. Once I stopped feeling sorry for myself things got a lot better, in fact I love my wife more than ever. If you watch network trashy tv or rated R movies and otherwise engage in our current mainstream culture which tells you me me me, sex sex sex, it will be really really tough. If you carry your cross according to God’s will, I found that many other graces are available.

Don’t get me wrong I strongly advice against the abstinence route if it is not necessary. It is hard, it is not recommended by the Church for most couples.

Note the “you” in my posts is general and specific to any other poster or the OP.

 

[agapewolf]

That’s amazing you would risk your wife’s life by relying on condoms. They, by the way, don’t really prevent pregnancy or spread of disease. Any kind of stats on it are not on based on anything scientific…like if the woman was ovulating and she would have conceived if not using the condom- which is impossible to test.

ABC does not help hormonal issues. It only harms it.

 

[Bluegoat]

There have been a few comments on here about absinence being easier for the unmarried. Well, there is a certian truth to that; perhaps that is why Paul warns people off marrige - it can be really hard.

However, priests and single people also have other crosses to bear - lack of children, a certain kind of companionship, a help-meet, really profound loneliness, feeling unlovable perhaps. And for homosexuals there are others - a profound feeling of having been given an unfair burden, lack of understanding by many people within the Church, perhaps shame.

I would suggest though, that if a couple practicing abstinence finds sleeping together or seeing each other naked difficult, they shouldn’t do those things. There is a reason that in the writings of the Church theologians call it living as “brother and sister”. That might be what a person has to do to make it work.

You know, this is not a new problem invented by the Church. ABC is new. NFP is new. They are meant to relieve peoples burdens, not increase them. What would those who advocate ABC in such a situation suggest would have been the solution for couples before ABC or NFP were available? Divorce, abortion, infanticide? I doubt it.

This stuff is hard, but IT IS NOT NEW. It is not caused by ABC or NFP.

For the record on the discussion of why NFP is lisit - it has never been a problem for a married couple to legitimately want to prevent conception. So in that sense, it IS ok not to be open to life. It has also always been ok to abstain from sex to accomplish that. It is still ok to do that too, either all the time, or during fertile periods. But, any time a person has sex, they need to realize that even using NFP or ABC, they could concieve, and if so, they must accept that as the consequence of their action, and see it through. That is the sense they need to be open to life.

 

[mom24boys]

Of course we bear our crosses alone. We were told that there’s nothing they could do for us other than remain celibate. no help, no assistance. No help with babysitting so that my wife coudl get well enough again for us to even go on a date…nothing. No, we are bearing our crosses alone.

This is why I started another thread on how we can support large families. Because it doesn’t make sense that the Church would have these teachings and leave families with such a tremendous burden. There is very, very little support for large families in trouble. And these answers to “just abstain” or God will help you bear your burden are TRITE, and frankly hurtful to those of us who are in difficult situations. The Church has a reponsiblity to help families live out this difficult teaching and they are not, imo.

Where are the flood of posters with testimonies about how long term (not a period of weeks or months, but LONG TERM) abstinence has been good for their marriages? I agree with PM. It is not natural and it goes against the nature of marriage. I don’t think ABC or leaving the Church is the answer. The answer is that people need to be a little more sympathetic to the fact that this is a tremendous burden for some and the Church needs to step up to the plate with some practical support!

 

[PennitentMan]

I am always and sincerely sorry to hear your story. I have no question that you indeed felt like you had no other choice.

I have been in similar situations… physically, mentally, financially unable to take on another pregnancy. We just chose to take different paths. I chose to go see doctors to treat the root of my illnesses. We chose to do whatever we had to do for private “couple time” (babysitters are everywhere - but God doesn’t just drop them out of the sky). I chose to read each and every NFP book I could get my hands on. I chose to call my instructors regularly, and ask for other contacts if they could not answer my questions. My illnesses were lessened by seeking help from my doctors and then my fertility itself was then corrected to be much more regular and predictable - and healthier. We were then able to embrace regularly and often!!.. praying always for those things that hinder another pregnancy to go away!

My wife was on serious anti-depressants, she has counseling (and still do), we consulted doctors up to ying yang. We also contacted our NFP instructors, who were very un helpful, and I went as far as trying to get in touch with the national body of the NFP methods we were following….they didn’t even get back to us.
We don’t have family anywhere near us to assist. We didn’t have enough money for regular babysitting, being new immigrants. The parish didn’t help even though we went to them asking for assistance and even posted our requests in the Sunday bulletin for a while.
Not to mention the prayers and the rosaries I said for our situation, imploring Mary and Jesus, our patron saints, etc.
All the time living in fear of another pregnancy that could send our tedious balancing act tumbling over the edge. When we had that many closed doors, I start walking the other way.

I’m not trying to belittle your situation, but it is your situation.

To others struggling - there IS another path… and it doesn’t *have *to end with leaving the faith!

I agree that to others it will be true, but not ALL others. It’s not always a given, it’s not always as cut and dry as the rules make it out to be.

 

[mom24boys]

You know, this is not a new problem invented by the Church. ABC is new. NFP is new. They are meant to relieve peoples burdens, not increase them. What would those who advocate ABC in such a situation suggest would have been the solution for couples before ABC or NFP were available? Divorce, abortion, infanticide? I doubt it.

You are 100% incorrect. This is absolutely a new problem. It is not normal or has it ever happened in human history that large families are in the minority. Before the acceptance of ABC, most people had large families. They had the support of their own extended families and society. Some large families are left with no support from their own extended family, their Church or society. Being a large family and being left alone and isolated is new.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks, I appreciate that!

:tiphat:

No you are not prying, that’s the beauty of anonymous internet forums! Lol! And you are right. We are now on ABC…actually, she is, for hormonal reasons more than pregnancy reasons, because I had a vasectomy. That was my choice though but we would have been just as happy with simple condom use. And we were for a long time before my vasectomy.

You were using NFP even though you had a vastectomy…or did you have that done after you left the Church? :ehh:

Allow condoms. That would be a good start, it could also be where it ends, but they HAVE to realize that their rules are causing damage and that they have the power to change, even slightly, the happiness of their parishioners.

But, I know they won’t, they have these teachings sewed up so tight that if they change the slightest thing, they will prove themselves wrong and in essence show that their teachings are not infallible.
But the fact that there are so many married couples suffering (not to mention the AIDS pandemic in Africa) should already be a hint to everyone that their teachings are not infallible, since it’s causing marriages to break up and death….but by announcing a change in the rules they would openly admit to un-infallibility.

*Oh no, you brought up Africa…but since YOU did…lol…did you know that teaching abstinence to people in Africa LOWERED std’s, and birthrates? Yes, it’s not publicized much in the news, but it’s true, and now Obama wants to reinvent the wheel or dismantle the wheel that was working through the prolife movement, but sending our tax dollars there for on demand abortions. Don’t get me started on that, PM! Anyways, I had to comment on that. *

So, there is no way for them to do anything without making their playhouse fall down, so they just look the other way and keep on forcing good folks down very dark, gloomy and depressing corridors.

Okay, so this was the purpose of my questions…to get to what you believe NOW. And how it changed from your thinking THEN. I remember PM your ‘fight’ to do the right thing…to follow the Church’s holy path regarding the marital embrace. I am sorry for your struggles. So…you believe that Church teaching is a manmade “rule,” and you don’t believe that sex needs to be unitive and procreative in nature, every time. Church teaching isn’t that we must procreate every time…but the act must be procreative…you and I know this, but you don’t believe that it even needs to be procreative…at all…or every time…or only when a couple chooses to PROCREATE, and thus the couple can go off the pill or whatever they are on, at that point. Is that what you believe NOW?

 

[PennitentMan]

That’s amazing you would risk your wife’s life by relying on condoms. They, by the way, don’t really prevent pregnancy or spread of disease. Any kind of stats on it are not on based on anything scientific…like if the woman was ovulating and she would have conceived if not using the condom- which is impossible to test.

I’m assuming you are speaking to me….that’s why I had the vasectomy in the end. Because we realized that even though the odds are better for us to remain childless with condoms than NFP, we’d still run a risk, so I booked the procedure.

ABC does not help hormonal issues. It only harms it.

Ah, thanks Dr……That would explain why my wife is doing drastically better on her pills than when she was no t on anything right? Ah, thanks!

 

[Em_in_FL]

My wife was on serious anti-depressants, she has counseling (and still do), we consulted doctors up to ying yang. We also contacted our NFP instructors, who were very un helpful, and I went as far as trying to get in touch with the national body of the NFP methods we were following….they didn’t even get back to us.

So you gave up on the NFP thing, right? I guess I understand if you weren’t firmly rooted in your faith to begin with. I mean, honestly - you now are atheist/agnostic - so you don’t even *believe *in God. Does His existence hinder on the “rules” of faith that don’t make sense to you? I can understand (to a point) leaving the Catholic faith because you don’t understand the true teachings of the faith - but totally not believing in God?.. I guess that’s where I just get confused. It just makes your struggle seem like an *excuse *if you don’t even believe in God. I don’t know. It’s just a sad overall story to me.

That’s amazing you would risk your wife’s life by relying on condoms. They, by the way, don’t really prevent pregnancy or spread of disease. Any kind of stats on it are not on based on anything scientific…like if the woman was ovulating and she would have conceived if not using the condom- which is impossible to test.

ABC does not help hormonal issues. It only harms it.

Apagewolf does make a good point… if your wife is on the pill she is just covering up symptoms rather than fixing an underlying problem. Like I’ve mentioned before - seeing a specialist (Reproductive Endocrinologist) rather than a regular OB may be more productive.

I wish you only peace, happiness, and love in life, PM… I hope you find that.

 

[Calliso]

But, unless a pregnancy will physically hurt the wife, a married couple *doesn’t have to *refrain from sex. They may choose to refrain, but that is not a requirement of their virtue. Quite the contrary, sexual expression within marriage is a radically humble act, an act that in itself might be called a virtue.

You keep using that word “having to”. But the only person who can *make *you abstain is your spouse. Now **that **would be a difficult trial, but God will provide grace for whatever things we *have to *do. He will not necessarily provide grace for our every whim.

Well some people are in marriages where one or both spouses does prevent the marital embrace from happening.