Abusing muhammad?

[ahollars]

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified. Forget about the resurrection for a second, and just focus on the fact that Islam claims that our knowledge of the Passion is a myth. That Jesus was not put on trial by Caiaphas, handed over to Pontius Pilate, nailed to a cross with two criminals, witnessed by hundreds of people, including His own Mother, and finally buried in a cave guarded by Roman soldiers, all of which was recorded by the Roman historian Josephus, before any gospels were written. Muslims expect us to believe that Muhammad’s revelations 600 years after these events are more accurate than the eyewitness account by John himself written in his own gospel. (Yes, remember John was the one disciple who was there.) This is the reason I believe the Koran to be a farce, no more credible than the book of Mormon.

 

[R_not]

Here is the cost some pay for criticizing mohammed and in Geert’s case - just showing what the koran says and how the muslims are carrying out mohammed’s commands.

He is fighting this and I hope that he brings to light the bullying tactics that the muslims are using - the UN being one of those tactics. Another tactic in the case Theo Van Gogh - just outright killing him.

And here is the irony - no muslim nation even pays dues to the UN while the UN is their lap dog. And the muslim nations have been noted as having human rights abuses - and they don’t care they just carry on as usual.

 

[Eucharisted]

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified. Forget about the resurrection for a second, and just focus on the fact that Islam claims that our knowledge of the Passion is a myth. That Jesus was not put on trial by Caiaphas, handed over to Pontius Pilate, nailed to a cross with two criminals, witnessed by hundreds of people, including His own Mother, and finally buried in a cave guarded by Roman soldiers, all of which was recorded by the Roman historian Josephus, before any gospels were written. Muslims expect us to believe that Muhammad’s revelations 600 years after these events are more accurate than the eyewitness account by John himself written in his own gospel. (Yes, remember John was the one disciple who was there.) This is the reason I believe the Koran to be a farce, no more credible than the book of Mormon.

This is true.

The crucifixion of Jesus was well known by the pagans, and most scholars don’t doubt it. There is even relics of Jesus’ Passions, including the spear, the sponge, pieces of the cross, the seamless garment of Jesus, the crown of thorns, and the veil of Veronica. Not to mention the solider who pierced His side was converted to Christianity and became a bishop.

 

[Numinous]

Eucharisted,

Although I agree with you, you should not use wikipedia as a defense of your position. Seeing the “most scholars” link leading to wikipedia made me laugh out loud. Wikipedia is not a source of reliable information.

 

[dolphinlove]

If a man finds need to hit his wife for discipline, then he is allowed to do so only in the matter prescribed–such that it does not leave any kind of mark.

Nobody who is honest with himself could call that beating.

WRONG! If you hit someone and cause them pain, its a BEATING.
Ive done a few rounds of wrestling (brothers) over the years, and we play and it doesnt hurt, but if they go beyond the point and cause me PAIN its beating me up, and they stop!

HITTING + PAIN = BEATING!!!

 

[dolphinlove]

It’s okay for you to get upset.

And you’re right, a woman is not a child to be punished. This isn’t talking about punishment. It is talking about a woman who persists in committing a sin in Islam, despite her husband’s efforts to correct her. Striking her (which some scholars don’t think means hitting at all, but means having intercourse actually) is the husband’s last resort before divorce.

This passage is not an excuse for a man to hit his wife as punishment or because he’s not happy with her.

So to discipline them, they are made to have sex as a last resort? isnt this rape!!! oh thats right, yes it is.

 

[chrisse]

Mohammet is not being abused anywhere on this forum. It is impossible to abuse mohammet to anywhere near as much as he abused others himself, and his legacy has resulted in vile and degrading abuse to hundreds of millions of people, or more (it’s hard to get good estimates for numbers going back 1400 years).

Mohammet is being given a critical evaluation and he has failed to live up to the perfect human being who should be the model for all mankind, as muslims believe.

Mohammet knew this, and so he ensured no one would question his abominable behaviour by including in the qur’an the demand that a believer not question what they do not understand or like.

Further, there are two meanings of abuse operating in any discussion of islam, mohammet or allah. One is the standard Western meaning of the word abusing, and it is a clear NO abuse, just the truth. The other is the islamic standard in which any criticism of the perfect role model for all mankind for eternity, mohammet, is offensive and abusive.

Mohammet is a public historical figure and is fair game for criticism. There is nothing about mohammet that puts him above the level of any other human being in this way.

Is muslims refuse to hear the truth about their vile ideology; if muslims refuse to see the result of their vile ideology all over the planet, then I guess they’d better be prepared to cop some more abuse of their mohammet, the human being they worship as a god.

Mind you, I have no doubt in my mind, that there’s nothing abusing him anywhere on this earth today like where he is right now - in hell.

 

[Eucharisted]

It’s hard to abuse a dead man.

 

[Reuben_J]

Mohammet is not being abused anywhere on this forum.
…

Mohammet is being given a critical evaluation and he has failed to live up to the perfect human being who should be the model for all mankind, as muslims believe.

…

Mohammet is a public historical figure and is fair game for criticism. There is nothing about mohammet that puts him above the level of any other human being in this way.

Thanks for this post.

I feel that I was severely reprimanded by a Muslim poster, planten, regarding this subject. How is that discussion can be abusive when all that I did was to comment on what Mohammad did and taught? And how is that they can comment on Christianity and yet not abusive according to this standard?

I did not invent them; they were all from the Quran and the Hadith. The only difference is that I see them from a different perspective than Muslims. I thought maybe I was that bad, but your post gives some encouragement and that I can go on speaking on this subject in this forum.

I agree with what you say as per above.

 

[swariffin]

I don’t think anyone here is abusing Muhammed, in fact CAF members are only exposing Muhammed’s deeds through his own hadiths.

So, if we do not believe in Muhammad is an abuse?

 

[Numinous]

How can you not believe in Mohammed? He really existed.

 

[Nepenthe]

And do not forget - St Mary was impregnated and married at the age of approximately twelve (possibly something of an old maid!), according to most Catholics, and throughout the world, marriage was often was often formalized at amazingly early ages, even at birth, and consummated when the female reached menarche, This custom has only recently been rendered uncommon, and continues in many parts of the world to this day.

Mohamed lived in a very different part of the world than Jesus did, and devoted much of his life to scholarly, rather than worldly pursuits, and worked hard at improving the rights of and justice for women, often to the chagrin of both the Roman and Jewish authorities. The society he lived in was rife with problems, but wasn’t nearly as turbulent and fractured as Mohamed’s.

Both have much to recommend them, and while I much prefer the Moralist of Galilee’s approach, I also feel some understanding of that of the Prophet of Islam.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… where he is right now - in hell.

Christians accuse Prophet Muhammed (pbut ) for war , polygamy etc etc . Some OT figures like David , Solomon (pbut ) & Biblical Prophets like Moses , Abraham (pbut ) are ’ guilty’ of same sins ( if not committed more serious immoral acts regarding Bible ).

So , Christians’s loving Prince is burning Muhammed (p) in fire with all these OT figures ?

Will the burning process be forever or OT figures will come out of fire & will get a chance to meet Christians in heaven & only Muhammed (p) & his followers will remain in fire ?

 

[Sam_777]

So, if we do not believe in Muhammad is an abuse?

sorry swariffin, I didn’t understand your question.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Christians accuse Prophet Muhammed (pbut ) for war , polygamy etc etc . Some OT figures like David , Solomon (pbut ) & Biblical Prophets like Moses , Abraham (pbut ) are ’ guilty’ of same sins ( if not committed more serious immoral acts regarding Bible ).

So , Christians’s loving Prince is burning Muhammed (p) in fire with all these OT figures ?

Will the burning process be forever or OT figures will come out of fire & will get a chance to meet Christians in heaven & only Muhammed (p) & his followers will remain in fire ?

Polygamy was once allowed during a certian period of time for a certain reason. But time CHANGED, new laws were fullifilled for everyone to follow. This is why polygamy in the New Testament was out of the picture, because it was unlawful to participate in that act. Mohammet however came much later then Jesus and still chose to have numerous wives. That is why it is a sin. a mortal sin actually. He even had sex with a 9 year old, fell in love with her when she was six. poor Aisha.

In the Old Testmanet, the reason for battling was for certain reasons as well. Moses and other OT figures didn`t fight to gain power and land or anything of the sort. They basically fought for righteousness. They defended their victims from cruel behaviour from the Amalekites. You have no idea how evil the Amalekites were, so this is why its easy for you to say “if they did it, its okay for Mohammaet to do it”. Wrong!.

If somebody attacked my family for generations and generations, and I was ready to defend them, it is obvious we are both in battle. But it happens to be I am on the good side, guess on what side Mohammad was?

you see the point?

Therefore, the OT prophets are in heaven for obeying Gods law at THAT time. Mohammad however…well I dont want to judge so Im leaving that up to God.

also, I have a question for you my sister in Allah…how come you never appear to actually defend Mohammad. I mean, if you mention any prophter of the Jews we always can defend their actions by clarifying why they did the things they did. But when it comes down to Mohammad, you never really defend his actions. You only play the “he did so he can do it do” game. Why is that?

 

[Benjamin8o8]

some how I posted twice

 

[chrisse]

So, if we do not believe in Muhammad is an abuse?

Well if muslims have their way, and shariah law is in place, our valid critical evaluation of Islam and mohammet, would give us a death sentence.

In the twisted world of the muslim mind, such criticism as we are, by our standards rightfully, applying, is offensive.

However, in this twisted muslim, the incitement to hate and slaughter against non-believers, the savage and brutal laws and punishments, the heresies against Jesus Christ and YHWH, is apparently the road to peace and paradise for all mankind.

 

[Nepenthe]

Woopa, in one single sentence i refered to Jesus as ‘he’ and then to Mohamed as ‘he’. Kinda clear from context, but very potentially confusing.

My Apologies. I’m lousy at Laptop keyboards.

 

[chrisse]

Christians accuse Prophet Muhammed (pbut ) for war , polygamy etc etc . Some OT figures like David , Solomon (pbut ) & Biblical Prophets like Moses , Abraham (pbut ) are ’ guilty’ of same sins ( if not committed more serious immoral acts regarding Bible ).

So , Christians’s loving Prince is burning Muhammed (p) in fire with all these OT figures ?

Will the burning process be forever or OT figures will come out of fire & will get a chance to meet Christians in heaven & only Muhammed (p) & his followers will remain in fire ?

Just mohammet definitely - he never repented and in fact commanded his vile sins continue for eternity.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

… You only play the “he did so he can do it do” game. Why is that?

God said He sent Muhammed (p) as a mercy to all . As I believe Quran is the final holy book of God , I don’t have to go through OT or NT to judge Muhammed (p) .

Sometimes I give examples from Jewish & Christians holy books to make them ( hopefully ) understand that their own books allow all these . If Jesus (p) allowed Jews to defend themselves from enemies & destroy cities , killing all including kids , if it’s ok for Jesus (p) to teach Moses (p) that Save alive nothing that breathes , then why it’s hard for non-Muslims to accept the fact that God allowed Muslims to fight against enemies ? Also with this condition that escort enemies if they want peace , don’t cross the limit even in the war field ?