Abusing muhammad?

[chrisse]

And do not forget - St Mary was impregnated and married at the age of approximately twelve (possibly something of an old maid!), according to most Catholics, and throughout the world, marriage was often was often formalized at amazingly early ages, even at birth, and consummated when the female reached menarche, This custom has only recently been rendered uncommon, and continues in many parts of the world to this day.

Mohamed lived in a very different part of the world than Jesus did, and devoted much of his life to scholarly, rather than worldly pursuits, and worked hard at improving the rights of and justice for women, often to the chagrin of both the Roman and Jewish authorities. The society he lived in was rife with problems, but wasn’t nearly as turbulent and fractured as Mohamed’s.

Both have much to recommend them, and while I much prefer the Moralist of Galilee’s approach, I also feel some understanding of that of the Prophet of Islam.

According to most Catholics ??? Catholics do not know Mary’s age, however looking at Jewish customs of the day it is more likely she was somewhere between 14 - 17. But no Catholic knows for sure.

There were NO Roman or Jewish authorities where mohammet supposedly existed (by the way I have serious doubts he did, but that’s for another forum).

Do you still believe in Santa Claus?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

Just mohammet definitely - he never repented and in fact commanded his vile sins continue for eternity.

ok , good to know that at least other Prophets (pbut) will get a chance to meet you in heaven OT Prophets are so lucky

let me know for how long Jesus (p) will fry them ?

 

[chrisse]

Thanks for this post.

I feel that I was severely reprimanded by a Muslim poster, planten, regarding this subject. How is that discussion can be abusive when all that I did was to comment on what Mohammad did and taught? And how is that they can comment on Christianity and yet not abusive according to this standard?

I did not invent them; they were all from the Quran and the Hadith. The only difference is that I see them from a different perspective than Muslims. I thought maybe I was that bad, but your post gives some encouragement and that I can go on speaking on this subject in this forum.

I agree with what you say as per above.

Reuben, I think I can say that it is not you who is upsetting our muslim forum contributors on here.

 

[chrisse]

ok , good to know that at least other Prophets (pbut) will get a chance to meet you in heaven OT Prophets are so lucky

let me know for how long Jesus (p) will fry them ?

Doh, muslimah, it’s mohammet with his imaginery friend god allah that has been sent to hellfire definitely. And Jesus isn’t down there at all, let alone with his frypan

But as for how long mohammet is in hellfire, ETERNITY.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

God said He sent Muhammed (p) as a mercy to all . As I believe Quran is the final holy book of God , I don’t have to go through OT or NT to judge Muhammed (p) .

But you do

Sometimes I give examples from Jewish & Christians holy books to make them ( hopefully ) understand that their own books allow all these . If Jesus (p) allowed Jews to defend themselves from enemies & destroy cities , killing all including kids , if it’s ok for Jesus (p) to teach Moses (p) that Save alive nothing that breathes , then why it’s hard for non-Muslims to accept the fact that God allowed Muslims to fight against enemies ? Also with this condition that escort enemies if they want peace , don’t cross the limit even in the war field ?

Jesus never said that, please stop being disrepectful. And I know what youre going to say. Youre going to mention the whole Trinity, but you need to understand us Catholics dont look at the Holy Trininty as a mystery that is revealed to us, we look at it as a mystery. So please dont say things like Jesus ordered them to rather Jesus` Father or Yahweh ordered them. Also, have you ever took time to figure out why God ordered them to fight the Amalekites and such?

We claim Mohammed was very wicked to do the things he did. maybe some battles were exeptional, but everything else was just so wrong from him. do you really belive Jesus and Mohammed were equally merciful?

Also, you refuse to judge mohammet all because the koran said he was merciful?

 

[sedonaman]

It is talking about a woman who persists in committing a sin in Islam, despite her husband’s efforts to correct her.

Since when does one person judge whether another has sinned?

 

[Numinous]

Because now we live in the Age of Grace.

EDIT: All of human history went in such a direction to bring about the Pax Romana so that the early Church could thrive and get on its feet.

 

[sedonaman]

There is one glaring error in the Koran that alone disproves the entire of Islam’s claim of supremacy over Christianity. The stubborn refusal of Muslim’s to admit that Jesus was, in fact, crucified.

You will find this very interesting if you have not seen it:

Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah: What Islam Really Teaches About Allah and Jesus.

 

[sedonaman]

Christians accuse Prophet Muhammed (pbut ) for war , polygamy etc etc . Some OT figures like David , Solomon (pbut ) & Biblical Prophets like Moses , Abraham (pbut ) are ’ guilty’ of same sins ( if not committed more serious immoral acts regarding Bible ).

If person “A” robs a bank, can person “B” use it as a justification to rob a bank too? This is an attempt to gain approval by bringing Christianity down to the level of Islam.

 

[sedonaman]

If Jesus (p) allowed Jews to defend themselves from enemies & destroy cities , killing all including kids , if it’s ok for Jesus (p) to teach Moses (p) that Save alive nothing that breathes , then why it’s hard for non-Muslims to accept the fact that God allowed Muslims to fight against enemies ?

Why? Simple. Because the “If” part of your statement is not true.

 

[sedonaman]

It’s clear then that they won’t listen to reason.

I still haven’t gotten an answer to my question: How can you understand what a passage says without interpreting it? This is elementary, as illustrated by using a passage out of a first grader’s reading book:

“See Bobby and Jane run.”

When you read it, you conjure up a picture in your mind of a little boy and girl running. If there is no picture showing them, some might visualize them running together; others might visualize them running separately. That’s interpreting.

So how would you read something as convoluted as the Qur’an without interpreting? [Remember, no pictures are allowed.] Or do you read it just to memorize it?

 

[Numinous]

In The Sword of the Prophet, Serge Trifkovic points out that Islam bans interpretation of the Quran. You’re just supposed to read it, and that’s it. If you start analyzing it, you get into trouble.

 

[R_not]

And do not forget - St Mary was impregnated and married at the age of approximately twelve (possibly something of an old maid!), according to most Catholics, and throughout the world, marriage was often was often formalized at amazingly early ages, even at birth, and consummated when the female reached menarche, This custom has only recently been rendered uncommon, and continues in many parts of the world to this day.

Mohamed lived in a very different part of the world than Jesus did, and devoted much of his life to scholarly, rather than worldly pursuits, and worked hard at improving the rights of and justice for women, often to the chagrin of both the Roman and Jewish authorities. The society he lived in was rife with problems, but wasn’t nearly as turbulent and fractured as Mohamed’s.

Both have much to recommend them, and while I much prefer the Moralist of Galilee’s approach, I also feel some understanding of that of the Prophet of Islam.

mohammed did not do anything scholarly - he couldn’t read or write.

mohammad did not engage in any important occupation. At times he would attend sheep, a profession mostly reserved for girls and deemed unmanly by the Arabs. The pay was meager and he depended on his impoverished uncle for his sustenance.

Finally, at the age of 25, Abu Talib secured for mohammed a job, to work as a trustee for a wealthy merchant woman, a relative, named Khadijah. Khadijah was a comely forty-year-old successful merchant and a widow. mohammed made one trip to Syria in her service, selling her merchandise and buying what she had ordered. Upon his return, Khadijah fell in love with the young mohammed and, through a maid, proposed marriage to him.

mohammed was a needy man, both financially and emotionally. For him the marriage with Khadijah was a blessing. In her, he could find the mother he had craved as a child, as well as the financial security that allowed him to never work again.

Khadijah was more than willing to take care of all her young husband’s needs. She found her happiness in giving, caring, and in self-sacrifice.

mohammed was not fond of work. He preferred to withdraw from the world and retreat into his own thoughts.
source: Understanding muhammad, A Psychobiography, pp14-15.

 

[R_not]

Reuben, I think I can say that it is not you who is upsetting our muslim forum contributors on here.

Gee, I wonder who is then?

Anyway, it isn’t hard to do such a thing because in the muslim world people get killed for speaking out about mohammed, or islam.

Even in our world they get killed - look at Theo Van Gogh. His friend, Ayan Hirsi Ali has to have 24 hour guard and live in hiding.

Father Botros will even apologize before enligtening people about islam. They have put a bounty on his head and are seeking to censor him - and he lives in our own land.

Why do radical Muslims, such as CAIR, hate – and fear – Zakaria Botros so? (I first described him and his ministry on NRO; be sure to click on links that go to important video clips of him, with English subtitles, where he makes several impressive demands of Islam). The problem Muslims have with Fr Botros is that they simply cannot refute him: everything he says – no matter how scandalizing to Islam – is always based on, often revered, Islamic sources. Moreover, Fr Botros rarely makes any claims about Islam: he only exposes; he only raises questions and then invites Islam’s ulema to respond and “clarify” the matter. However, as this story indicates, their response is only to have him censored – or, for the more radical, killed.

Father Botros is public enemy #1 in islam. An old man. But hey, they follow mohammed’s example who killed an old man over 100 years old.

So, you will see that the precedent has been set and we live in a unique time in history. Don’t get me wrong - they will still try to shut us down as they did the thread ‘how do muslims rationalize mohammeds deeds’ (I think that was the title.)

 

[Numinous]

How did Muhammed then deceive so many? Was he a mentalist? Was it proto-NLP?

 

[sedonaman]

In The Sword of the Prophet, Serge Trifkovic points out that Islam bans interpretation of the Quran. You’re just supposed to read it, and that’s it. If you start analyzing it, you get into trouble.

This is why Sister Amy has refused to answer my questions about “interpreting”.

The path to knowldege is,

Observation – > Interpretation / Analysis – > Knowledge

This is what the human brain does naturally. Islam cannot stop people from observing, so it must “head them off at the pass,” so to speak, by banning interpretation as a sin of some sort. The answer to all life’s problems is the Prophet – camel died? Ask the Prophet; missed your period? Ask the prophet; moon is eclipsed? Ask the Prophet; new science developed? Ask the Prophet; etc.? Ask the Prophet.

This is why Islamic societies are poor. Their path to knowledge and the resultant bettering of the human condition is blocked. Why for? Because the Prophet, and hence Islam, cannot stand up to critical analysis.

 

[Numinous]

Owned.

 

[R_not]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

God said He sent Muhammed (p) as a mercy to all . As I believe Quran is the final holy book of God , I don’t have to go through OT or NT to judge Muhammed (p) .

Sometimes I give examples from Jewish & Christians holy books to make them ( hopefully ) understand that their own books allow all these . If Jesus (p) allowed Jews to defend themselves from enemies & destroy cities , killing all including kids , if it’s ok for Jesus (p) to teach Moses (p) that Save alive nothing that breathes , then why it’s hard for non-Muslims to accept the fact that God allowed Muslims to fight against enemies ? Also with this condition that escort enemies if they want peace , don’t cross the limit even in the war field ?

#1. the word ‘enemy’ is not twisted to mean anyone who disagrees with us. In fact, the command to us is to love God, and our neighbors as we love ourselves.

#2. There was no command to keep on doing it for millenia

#3. There is no twisting doing evil things with the aura of goodness in order to keep on justifying that behavior.

 

[R_not]

I was just thinking about that last post and if you would read the Bible you might see for yourself what it said instead of reading the made up stories that mohammed put in the koran, or listening to clerics who don’t have a clue as to what is in the Bible either.

Instead - we get the same old accusations while you haven’t even cracked open a Bible to read it.

You will see the reasons why God did what He did and that there was no order for us to carry on killing sprees in His name, unlike the koran and mohammed’s commands to do so.

And there is no twisting of evil into goodness. What is good is good and what is bad is bad. And the salvation of your soul is not weighted down by predestination. In islam all this evil that is done with the twist that it is good does not give one hint that it overrides predestination. It is only promises from a man, mohammed, who promised whatever his followers wanted to hear in order to get them to do his bidding. And all he had to add on to his wishes was to say that ‘allah said’.

You don’t have to go and prance around a black rock hoping an inatimate object has some sort of consciousness that you know isn’t real hoping a rock will speak for you. A rock. A cold thing that was used in mohammed’s pagan religion and since mohammed was familiar with it - he brought it into his new ‘religion’ with him.

And while you pass judgement on others that you think worship statues and objects - here muslims worship a rock that mohammed said will ‘speak’ for them on Judgement Day and has a conscious. A little hypocritical, don’t you think?

 

[paarsurrey]

The path to knowldege is,

Observation – > Interpretation / Analysis – > Knowledge

This is what the human brain does naturally.

Hi

I agree with your above words. One source of knowledge, among many, is:

Observation – > Interpretation / Analysis – > Knowledge

but only if the interpretation/analysis is done within the context; that is why I always say to quote the quranic verse with five preceding and five following verse for the usual context. Then there is no harm.

I love Jesus

Thanks