According to Catholicism, can G-d foresee all possibilities and potentialities of things that do not actually exist or happen?

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meltzerboy

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This question was prompted by a comment made on the recent thread discussing the existence of Limbo. Is there the belief according to Catholic teaching that G-d can foresee the life of a person had that person not died? Is there anything to foresee? This can be extended to the larger issue of “possible” universes. IOW, is G-d omniscient regarding all possibilities and potentialities that do not actually exist or happen?
 
meltzerboy said:
This question was prompted by a comment made on the recent thread discussing the existence of Limbo. Is there the belief according to Catholic teaching that G-d can foresee the life of a person had that person not died? Is there anything to foresee? This can be extended to the larger issue of “possible” universes. IOW, is G-d omniscient regarding all possibilities and potentialities that do not actually exist or happen?
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From New Advent’s Article on God (second paragraph, titled Distinctions in the Divine Knowledge, emphasis quoted here is mine)
That God knows infallibly and from eternity what, for example, a certain man, in the exercise of free will, will do or actually does in any given circumstances, and what he might or would actually have done in different circumstances is beyond doubt — being a corollary from the eternal actuality of Divine knowledge.
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So yes, there is a Catholic teaching on it: God indeed sees all that is, was, and could be.
 
God knows everything that is intrinsically knowable but we would have to be omniscient to know what is intrinsically unknowable! Perhaps how persons who don’t exist would behave comes into that category. What is certain is that it doesn’t make the slightest difference to us or anyone else!
 
Alberti_Devoveo said:
From New Advent’s Article on God (second paragraph, titled Distinctions in the Divine Knowledge, emphasis quoted here is mine)

So yes, there is a Catholic teaching on it: God indeed sees all that is, was, and could be.
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Yes. God can see not only what will happen, but all the possibilities of everything that could have happened, so this enables him to be infinitely just.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas writes about these topics (though not about multiple universes) in Summa contra Gentiles (and probably also in Summa Theologica, though I am less familiar with it). The fact is that G-d, being omniscent, immediately knew whether or not that person would have died, as well as every other aspect of his existence (“Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be”). I don’t know if G-d would have any reason to think about possibilities that He already knows will not actually exist or happen 🤷
 
Meltzerboy,

I concur with the others who have said that God knows not only what is, has, and will happened but also all that could happen.

By the by, this is why we hold that Christ knew less with his human intellect than with His Divine intellect, since the latter knows an infinity of possible things, which is impossible for a created non-infinite intellect (even aided by grace) to know.

VC
 
Alberti_Devoveo said:
So yes, there is a Catholic teaching on it: God indeed sees all that is, was, and could be.
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dshix said:
Yes. God can see not only what will happen, but all the possibilities of everything that could have happened, so this enables him to be infinitely just.
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From that it follows that God “knows” the contents of a book, which was never written, since the author was was never conceived, since his parents never met… Sheeesh! Since “knowledge” means information about something, this would mean that God has information about something that does not exist, did never exist, and will never exist either. Moreover, God would know how many pages that nonexistent book would have, what typeface it would have, if it ever became printed… how many typos the printer would place into it… and how that book would have been different, if the author suffered from a toothache during the process… Come on!!!

This is the Molinist “middle knowledge” at its… “best” or “worst”???

Does God also “know” the color of the ball, which is NOT placed on top of the nonexistent book, which does NOT reside on my nonexistent desk at the office, where I do NOT work?
 
I think the significance of potentiality, first of all, depends on what type. It’s one thing to be concerned about the salvation of a person if they intended to go to confession but died unexpectedly before they could.

It’s an entirely different thing to be concerned about the person’s salvation if he was raised Methodist instead of Catholic, tied his shoes differently, was left-handed instead of right-handed, etc.

The latter potentialities are of absolutely no significance as far as I’m aware.
 
The way I see it, once you get to the point that there is a God…

Concluding he knows ‘all’ is a logical next step. (anything anyone can think to ask about would fall into this category of ‘all’)
 
Tyrion said:
From that it follows that God “knows” the contents of a book, which was never written, since the author was was never conceived, since his parents never met… Sheeesh! Since “knowledge” means information about something, this would mean that God has information about something that does not exist, did never exist, and will never exist either. Moreover, God would know how many pages that nonexistent book would have, what typeface it would have, if it ever became printed… how many typos the printer would place into it… and how that book would have been different, if the author suffered from a toothache during the process… Come on!!!

This is the Molinist “middle knowledge” at its… “best” or “worst”???

Does God also “know” the color of the ball, which is NOT placed on top of the nonexistent book, which does NOT reside on my nonexistent desk at the office, where I do NOT work?
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Yes. It may seem bizarre, but God is capable of knowing all these things, and he does, because He is absolutely infinite. Infinity has no limits whatsoever, so it is not inconceivable that he knows all things that could ever be.
 
Tyrion said:
Does God also “know” the color of the ball, which is NOT placed on top of the nonexistent book, which does NOT reside on my nonexistent desk at the office, where I do NOT work?
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dshix:
Yes. It may seem bizarre, but God is capable of knowing all these things, and he does, because He is absolutely infinite. Infinity has no limits whatsoever, so it is not inconceivable that he knows all things that could ever be.
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Not everybody agrees:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8918206&postcount=2
If somebody were to never exist, than he would have no afterllife to be known and God couldn’t know what would happen to.
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According to this poster, God’s knowledge is limited to that which is created.

Sarah x 🙂
 
The Bavarian theologian Ludwig Ott (1906-1985) makes in his Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma the following three distinctions as to the the Divine knowledge of extra-Divine things with the given levels of theological certainty:
a) God knows all that is merely possible by the knowledge of simple intelligence (scientia simplicis intelligentiae). (De fide.)
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b) God knows all real things in the past, the present, and the future (Scientia visionis). (De fide.)
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By the knowledge of vision (scientia visionis) God also foresees the future free acts of the rational creatures with infallible certainty. (De fide.)
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c) God also knows the conditioned future free actions with infallible certainty (Scientia futuribilium). (Sent. communis)
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For a) and b) especially the First Vatican Council, Session III, Chapter 1 is referred to while c) is supported by St. Matthew 11, 21: “Woe to thee, Corozain, woe to thee, Bethsaida: for if in Tyre and Sidon had been wrought the miracles that have been wrought in you, they had long ago done penance in sackcloth and ashes.” On the speculative aspect the Divine foreknowledge of conditioned future is said to rely on the perfection of the Divine knowing, on the infallibility of the Divine providence, and on the practice of prayer in the Church.
 
Tyrion said:
From that it follows that God “knows” the contents of a book, which was never written, since the author was was never conceived, since his parents never met… Sheeesh! Since “knowledge” means information about something, this would mean that God has information about something that does not exist, did never exist, and will never exist either. Moreover, God would know how many pages that nonexistent book would have, what typeface it would have, if it ever became printed… how many typos the printer would place into it… and how that book would have been different, if the author suffered from a toothache during the process… Come on!!!

This is the Molinist “middle knowledge” at its… “best” or “worst”???

Does God also “know” the color of the ball, which is NOT placed on top of the nonexistent book, which does NOT reside on my nonexistent desk at the office, where I do NOT work?
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Yep. It pretty much comes with the territory of being Perfect Knowledge, knowledge itself. Did you even read the article I linked to?
 
dshix said:
Well, let’s just say I disagree with that poster 😛
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It’s been claimed elsewhere here that God can’t do that which is logically impossible, since logic emanates from the existence of God - so, God can’t make a triangular circle.

Logically, how can God know the possibilities and potentialities of something that does not exist?

Sarah x 🙂
 
You are anthropomorphizing.

Definition of knowledge:
"Knowledge is a familiarity with someone or something, which can include facts, information, descriptions, or skills acquired through experience or education. It can refer to the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject. It can be implicit (as with practical skill or expertise) or explicit (as with the theoretical understanding of a subject); it can be more or less formal or systematic.[1] In philosophy, the study of knowledge is called epistemology; the philosopher Plato famously defined knowledge as “justified true belief.” However, no single agreed upon definition of knowledge exists, though there are numerous theories to explain it. The following quote from Bertrand Russell’s “Theory of Knowledge” illustrates the difficulty in defining knowledge: “The question how knowledge should be defined is perhaps the most important and difficult of the three with which we shall deal. This may seem surprising: at first sight it might be thought that knowledge might be defined as belief which is in agreement with the facts. The trouble is that no one knows what a belief is, no one knows what a fact is, and no one knows what sort of agreement between them would make a belief true. Let us begin with belief.”

Knowledge acquisition involves complex cognitive processes: perception, communication, association and reasoning; while knowledge is also said to be related to the capacity of acknowledgment in human beings"

These are human terms and human understanding. We cannot know what an Orca thinks (despite the fact that some believe they do, it’s simply impossible); if we cannot know and understand the true nature of creatures below us in the phylogenetic scale, but only make “educated” guesses based upon human observation and research, then how can we know anything about the abilities of That which created us? God is knowable only insofar as He permits Himself to be and our biology limits the capability of obtaining a certain and absolute comprehension of Him.
 
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