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Elf01
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When a Catholic sins they should repent. Many pro abortion ‘Catholics’ don’t.
Account: bishop says "You can't be an authentic Catholic and pro-abortion." --As pro-abortion "Catholic" in U.S. takes the public eye
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Not a single one of those sins is “voting for a candidate who allows abortions.”
I’m not saying that is your position, but it is a position that many have tried to push.
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TheLittleLady
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And we pray for our brothers and sisters. As we cannot read their hearts to know if they are culpable, we leave the judging their soul for God.
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SeekSalvation
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CoffeeFanatic
Guest
Those pro-abortion Catholics are very much among you in your parishes. They hate the rest of you. I was rather shocked to see how much they hate anyone who is pro-life, but especially other Catholics, recently on a local board. A few were specifically pointing out the ‘liberal’ priests they liked and which parishes in our area were more liberal- and disdaining those who actually believed in Catholicism as hateful bigots. There was a lot of frothing at the mouth regarding the very idea of parishes being opened again to the public.
That level of hate was a sad look into the souls of a few lost persons.
That level of hate was a sad look into the souls of a few lost persons.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I agree. But you can vote for a candidate who happens to allow abortion. You citation does not say otherwise.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is really sad to see people foster hate like this. The best way to get someone to hate is to convince them that the one they should hate hates them.
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SeekSalvation
Guest
I do not believe what you’re saying is true. But to give you the benefit of my doubts I’m waiting, and hoping, to hear from ETWN Open Line what the Churches position is on this topic - Fr Larry Richards. I sent this question to him. My position is “You can’t be a Catholic and support abortion” which is what you are doing if you vote for a pro-abortion politician. Clearly that’s what you’re doing!SeekSalvation:
I agree. But you can vote for a candidate who happens to allow abortion. You citation does not say otherwise.
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Sorry, but EWTN is not an official agency of the Catholic Church. You cannot prove your point by citing a cherry-picked priest, but by citing the Catechism, or other official source.LeafByNiggle:
I do not believe what you’re saying is true. But to give you the benefit of my doubts I’m waiting, and hoping, to hear from ETWN Open Line what the Churches position is on this topic - Fr Larry Richards. I sent this question to him.SeekSalvation:
I agree. But you can vote for a candidate who happens to allow abortion. You citation does not say otherwise.
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SeekSalvation
Guest
No? You’re saying Fr. Larry Richards isn’t a Catholic Priest?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Not every word spoken by a Catholic Priest is official Catholic Church teaching. They can make mistakes. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves. . . .
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StudentMI
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That wasn’t appropriate.
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SeekSalvation
Guest
By all means, please do tell us how your vocational theological teachings has given you such knowledge on this topic that it is greater than a Catholic Priest?
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Mrchatsworth
Guest
Never in my life have I met someone who is pro birth and anti life. You seem to have experience with this, can you tell me what their position would be?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Since we have not yet heard from this priest, it has not yet been established that I disagree with the priest.
In the meantime, I suggest you ponder these words from Cardinal Ratzinger:
“N.B. A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
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Since the topic purports to be of what the Bishop has said, I disagree with your statement.
We appear to have heard from the priest.
It also appears you are in disagreement with what he said.
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Elf01
Guest
I’m convinced that the vast majority are culpable. I pray that I’m wrong and they will repent, but when I hear I’m personally opposed but … or I believe what the Church teaches … I don’t think they have the excuse of ignorence. And I’d like it if people who publically dissent from Church teaching didn’t call themselves Catholic.
Technically, however I’d ask you if you’d say the same about a pro slavery candidate.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Not quite. In my very first post in this thread I pointed out how the bishop said nothing about voting for such a candidate being a sin. But the authors of the article “interpreted” his words for us to make it sound like that is what he said.LeafByNiggle:
Since the topic purports to be of what the Bishop has said, I disagree with your statement.
We appear to have heard from the priest.
It also appears you are in disagreement with what he said.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If a pro-slavery candidate was the only alternative to a madman, I would vote for the pro-slavery candidate, and then work to eliminate slavery, rather than elect the madman and then try to convince him to stop being a madman. Of course this is all highly hypothetical, since we do not have any pro-slavery candidates or madmen running for office. (…or do we???)LeafByNiggle:
Technically, however I’d ask you if you’d say the same about a pro slavery candidate.
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SeekSalvation
Guest
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