Acknowledging Islam

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monicajener66 said:
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KevinK:
Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38).
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yes, theft is punishable in front of other people, so people can view and stay away from stealing,
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Yes, that’s the idea. Your hand steals, therefore it has to be cut off. You commit adultery, you has to be stoned to death. Punishment, including death penalty, usually by chopping off heads, is done publicly as examples of the consequences for crime, to discourage others to commit them.

Criminals are condemned in this system, not rehabilitated. They are condemned by scarring or mutilating them throughout their lives or if not, condemned to death. Both methods, it seems, to stop them repeating the crime.

During fasting month, if you are caught eating in the public, you could be punished by whipping. The Law of Allah (fasting) has to be followed, one way or the other. The culprit has to be punished, so that it becomes a deterrant for people not to eat during the fasting month. Besides, when you eat, you would cause others to salivate and thus break their fast.

There are people here who advocate this method of fasting, so that fast is better observed and followed, perhaps unlike us Christians where nobody would beat us up if we do not fast. Something to note during Lent.
 
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What makes you say that? nothing about religious devotion, or respect for Mary (who is mentioned in the quran more that the Bible…). Abslolutely nothing?
 
Read Peter Kreeft’s book on this topic. It is really informative. Whilst we need to reject Islam’s doctrine as the untruth, there are things we can learn from them. Self-discipline and the avoidance of backsliding into “liberalism” is one.
 
Reuben_J said:
There are people here who advocate this method of fasting, so that fast is better observed and followed, perhaps unlike us Christians where nobody would beat us up if we do not fast. Something to note during Lent.
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I don’t know Reuben J:? Growing up in a Catholic family, meant going to Mass every Sunday, going to Confession and Lent was a practice celebrated due to the special baked foods my mother would make for a family of 12. Family disciplines included being pulled by the ear to go to confession, placed in a corner with a rosary to pray when caught fighting with siblings, Missing Mass was not an option, when you have older siblings enforcing house faith disciplines with a pinch or a punch in the arm.

I realize Catholic family disciplines may not meet your Islamic scope of disciplines. And I don’t take away from your post. But to neglect Catholic discipline of fasting,attending day’s of obligation and Sunday Mass, confession etc… becomes a worse case when we can offend God.

The reason I bring all this up, in the hope to reveal that Islam practices from a natural human law. Where as Christianity follows both a Spiritual law of practice that fulfills the natural law of practice. Hence, Islamic disciplines would appear to fulfill and become a final judgement on earth when exercised against an offender of Islam. Grant it the punishment is severe and does not raise the offender’s “Spirituality” of faith, when an Islamic punishment enforces a physical or natural discipline all in the name of Allah. Which to a Muslim is final and justifies the physical punishment’s according to Allah’s and their Prophet’s disciplines. Something to ponder here.

Peace be with you
 
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Masihi said:
I do believe that Christianity should have a central place in the government and Church authorities should be able to interfere in aspects of politics
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I have to disagree with you on this point. Since the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Peter and all of his apostolic successor’s to today have all worked toward keeping secular powers out of the Church. Many times at the expense of their own lives and many times secular powers have gained an upper hand over the Church.
When Catholic Monarch’s ruled in Europe. Chaos and wars began between Catholic Monarch’s and it was the Church and her members who suffered the most.
The Orthodox Church’s are living proof, that having a secular power influence an election of a bishop stunts the growth of the Church and invites all types of secularism, such allowing contraception, divorce that can decay the body of believers.
We in the Roman Catholic Rite pray that we will never see the day a Pope or Bishop running for a secular government position.

The Kingdom of God, as Jesus states is “not of this world”. Thus the Church has no place in secular governments and the Church has no business interfering in secular politics in any country.

The Pope is free again from secular powers today. When ever a religion mixes itself with secular powers. It is the religion that is prostituted by the secular powers. This is a biblical revelation and a biblical prophecy.
 
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In Istanbul, I noticed a massive observance of the Ramadan fasting.
Some devout citizens are busy with physical work, others work as cooks and waiters, others work in a butcher’s shop, but they did not even allow to make a sip of water throughout the day.
Some young people who work for themselves (taxi drivers for example) try during Ramadan to sleep during the day and at night to work.
Of course , it should be added that not all Istanbul residents are religious, many people do not hold fast and there is no punishment for this in Turkey.
 
Turkey is officially a secular country it doesn’t have sharia law.
 
I believe we Orthodox are doing fine the allowance of church figures to have some authority in the government gave the people moral values like Greece is probably the most religious country in Europe which is why I admire it greatly.
 
I love Greece. Of course Greece is a Christian country, and the Greeks have their advantages.
What is interesting that in general, probably in Muslim countries can not boast of hard work , but the Turks compared to the Bulgarians and Greeks, do not murmur on the fate but working hard and thriving.
This is one of the positive historical features of Ottoman ethics- “work is good”, “work ennobles man”.
 
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MLove your post. Basically my thought on this subject is reflected in my first post on this thread that Islam is not an improvement on Christianity. I would not say we cannot learn anything from them as I do admire their call to prayers and fasting. I disagree with their method in achieving them and would prefer ours instead - obligation to mass, etc, and fasting during Lent.

The contention here seems to be that Muslims are doing it better than us and thus make them better people. While it could be true, it pethaps shows how much we have fallen rather than Christianity does not offer righteousness and good behavior.

Strict physical punishment for spiritual crimes (sins) in Islam surely is strong deterrent for people to comply religious law in Islamic society and that perhaps shape their mentality to many extents.

Maybe if people here could comment whether we need to be pushed ‘physically’ to do our religious duties? I think that would give closer evaluation of fruits of Islam.

God bless.
 
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As a Catholic living in Islamic majority country and seeing their way up close, i can say A VERY VERY VERY BIG NOTHING TO LEARN!!!
When they say tolerance to another, they mean that’s you not them.
A case happen in my country, when a non muslim say that the sound system is too loud, they go beserk and burn that non muslim worship place.
Recently they reject a Buddhist monk who is invited to pray and banish him.
Even i wonder why the West invited them to migrate to their country. They see that as invitation to conquer, to change Christian value or any value to theirs. Meanwhile for me a non muslim, if a Christian based country giving a chance to migrate, i gladly save my family from this islam majority country. So stop!!!
There is nothing to learn!!!
Islam is dangerous!!!
Love God with all you have. Love Jesus.
 
I disagree with the notion that we have nothing to learn. As far as religious life, I think there are some things we (average Catholics) can learn from average Muslims (or any other persons of different religions) and vice versa. I am excluding the radical/fringe cases. Even the fringe cases teach us something (not to do).

Someone mentioned that we have prayers seven times a day as opposed to Islam’s five. That is all good, but do we really keep them everyday? I must admit I do not. It is encouraged, but not a must. The same can be said with fasting during Lent, as compared to Islam’s Ramadan. For us, we fast only on specific days (Ash Wednesday, Good Friday), abstain from meat on Fridays, but nothing else for the rest of the Lenten season. Again, full fasting is encouraged, not a must. I would say I tend to do the bare minimum, which I suspect a lot of people do too. My family and I are trying the full fasting+abstaining for all 40 days in the last few years, but we have not managed to go all 40 days yet. Hopefully we will in the future.

As for religious intolerance to one another, I think that can happen to any community/country. I also came from a Muslim-majority country. I have experienced something similar about the sound system, but not too extreme. The Muslim community complained that the Mass being too loud, so we complied. When the Christian community did the same thing about the call to prayers, nothing was done. The minority is oppressed somewhat. Now that I live in a Christian-majority country, I see that the non-Christian minority is also oppressed somewhat. Fortunately, both countries are not the extremes (yet?).

Anyway, what I am trying to say is this: since the Church encourages us to do liturgy of the hour, fasting during Lent to be closer to God, perhaps we should take notes from our Muslim brethren and do these things that the Church prescribes for us.

God bless.
 
There’s we plenty we can learn from them in terms of what not to do.
 
Agreed, the good is found in the Catholic Church but not practiced as much.

I do think that seeing Muslims can wake us up to aspects of our own faith that we had not noticed.
 
What not to do…Smoking hashish for example is prohibited in many Islamic countries.
You see, alcohol really cheers the heart.
Italians, Spanish and French, for example, understand the intricacies of wine drinks, but in some Slavic countries alcohol simply destroys and devours people.
There’s alcohol, and especially vodka can be called the devil’s drink, destroying many families and destroying many lives.
Vodka is a cancer and a source of almost all the major ills there.
 
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If you’re an infidel, Colonel, so am I. We have a Muslim woman running the pharmacy I go to. And every time I go in there, she has the attitude that we’re all infidels. One of my dearest friends saw this attitude for herself.
 
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