R
Raxus
Guest
Islam supports beheading infidels and throwing gay people off buildings, so it’s not unfair to say that Islam has also literally destroyed lives and families.
- Status
A
Augustinian
Guest
Not every muslim is like that at all. The Muslim guys around here that sell incense and the “Final Call” are certainly cordial and polite. They may officially be required to hate me as part of their faith, but I really don’t feel it in their hearts.
J
jediliz
Guest
I don’t think they are even allowed water. Even OUR Fasting rules allow water. Can you imagine not being able to drink water on a 100* day? Not me!
L
lilypadrees
Guest
We have a Muslim mosque near us. Most of the Muslims I’ve met have been very nice. (I see them in one of the stores I shop at regularly.) It’s just that one woman who acts like she’s better than anyone else.lilypadrees:
Not every muslim is like that at all. The Muslim guys around here that sell incense and the “Final Call” are certainly cordial and polite. They may officially be required to hate me as part of their faith, but I really don’t feel it in their hearts.
Last edited:
A
Athanasiy
Guest
I am personally against beheading people and against the fact that they throw them from the roofs of houses. It’s inhuman and barbaric.
I’m generally against the death penalty, but as far as I understand, we compare the positive aspects of this religion. I’m not on the side of the ISIS/SHARIA states.
I think that the purpose of the discussion is to show the possibility of peaceful co-existence.
I’m generally against the death penalty, but as far as I understand, we compare the positive aspects of this religion. I’m not on the side of the ISIS/SHARIA states.
I think that the purpose of the discussion is to show the possibility of peaceful co-existence.
Last edited:
R
Reuben_J
Guest
And they cannot even swallow their saliva. It is very technical and legalistic.
R
Reuben_J
Guest
It is called a mosque.
O
opulumpu
Guest
Ofcourse it is inhuman and barbaric. But Surah 5:38 commands you to cut off the hands of thieves. Is this not inhuman or barbaric. Surah 5 and Surah 9 are replete with commands to do harm to non believers. ISIS or Boko Haram get their marching orders from the Koran.
OK the purpose of this discussion is to show the possibility of peaceful co-existence. But is peaceful co-esistence possible. Moslems preach peace when they are in the minority; when they are in the majority peace comes after the non believers have been subjugated. Look at the countries where Moslems are in the majority.
Compare the violence that the Koran encorages to the command of Jesus to love your neighbor as yourself and to do good to those who hate you. Even when He was dying on the cross (I know Islam says He did not), Jesus asked the Father to forgive those who crucified Him for they did not know what they were doing. Compare that to what Mohammed said when he lay dying from the poison in the lamb roast that he ate.
Why is Islam so violent. Why. Why. Why
A
Agastasa
Guest
Honestly, anything Islam does Catholicism does better. The trappings and aesthetics of Catholicism blows Islam out of the water alone. Modernity never took hold as it did in The West in nearly every Muslim country out there except for Turkey. So Muslim comes from societies where almost everyone takes the value of religion prima facie. That probably explains why Muslims tend to be more devout in their faith than people in the West.
L
lilypadrees
Guest
Thank you. I didn’t think “temple” was right but couldn’t think of the word.
Have corrected my post.
Last edited:
R
Raxus
Guest
I agree. The fact that Islam as a whole supports it is probably something that should be addressed however, don’t you agree?
Islam is on the side of the ISIS / SHARIA states.
I honestly don’t think Islam can peacefully co-exist with other religions or ideologies. Those who profess to follow it, but are also peaceful people who reject the violent things mentioned above, are not in fact following Islam.
R
Raxus
Guest
I’d disagree with you. HUMANS have that history. Christianity as a religion and ideology does not. That’s what’s being discussed here.
W
worldcitizen
Guest
Islam is a grossly misrepresented Faith in the West. Islam, as in the Quran, is actually a religion of peace. The verses in the Quran only permit defensive warfare not offensive. God is All Just as we see with the Amalekites whose destruction He commanded after Israel had been persecuted by them for 500 years. (1Samuel 15:3) It was a similar situation with Islam that God commanded defensive but not offensive war against those who attacked first not the innocent.
If we look at the history of Islam, we will see it was all about freedom of worship. Muhammad announced, in a city who’s income depended upon donations to 360 idols, that there was only one God. This caused an upheaval and ended up in the persecution of Muslims who fled to Abyssinia and were granted Asylum by a Christian king because of their love for Jesus. They eventually fled to Mecca where He received Sura 2:90 regarding warfare and it’s laws.
Sura 2:190 revealed to Muhammad stated that He had the right of self defense if attacked first. This was the condition placed upon all battle. Infidels, it’s definition then meant always those who had attacked first or who Muslims were at war with not disbelievers who did not harm Muslims.
Often Sura 2:191 is quoted by itself by those wishing to create hatred towards Islam to discredit it but if you read the verse before, Sura 2:190, the context says clearly only self defense is permissible.
This was obeyed until Muhammad died. After that the Caliphs seized power and soon after that the Abbasids and Umayyads ursurped the laws of the Quran and went on offensive warfare against the laws of the Quran to seize land and wealth.
They destroyed true Islam. We cannot blame Islam as revealed in the Quran for violence committed by Muslims anymore than we can blame the Bible for atrocities committed in Christ’s name.
Both Holy Books forbid murder but not self defense or fighting a just war. Both Holy Books teach to worship God, to be virtuous and charitable and both teach that Lord Jesus was from God. They have the same Father as in Abraham so really, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are brothers of a single family and should accept one another as loving brothers and sisters.
If we look at the history of Islam, we will see it was all about freedom of worship. Muhammad announced, in a city who’s income depended upon donations to 360 idols, that there was only one God. This caused an upheaval and ended up in the persecution of Muslims who fled to Abyssinia and were granted Asylum by a Christian king because of their love for Jesus. They eventually fled to Mecca where He received Sura 2:90 regarding warfare and it’s laws.
Sura 2:190 revealed to Muhammad stated that He had the right of self defense if attacked first. This was the condition placed upon all battle. Infidels, it’s definition then meant always those who had attacked first or who Muslims were at war with not disbelievers who did not harm Muslims.
Often Sura 2:191 is quoted by itself by those wishing to create hatred towards Islam to discredit it but if you read the verse before, Sura 2:190, the context says clearly only self defense is permissible.
This was obeyed until Muhammad died. After that the Caliphs seized power and soon after that the Abbasids and Umayyads ursurped the laws of the Quran and went on offensive warfare against the laws of the Quran to seize land and wealth.
They destroyed true Islam. We cannot blame Islam as revealed in the Quran for violence committed by Muslims anymore than we can blame the Bible for atrocities committed in Christ’s name.
Both Holy Books forbid murder but not self defense or fighting a just war. Both Holy Books teach to worship God, to be virtuous and charitable and both teach that Lord Jesus was from God. They have the same Father as in Abraham so really, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are brothers of a single family and should accept one another as loving brothers and sisters.
Last edited:
R
Reuben_J
Guest
There are a few points that I would disagree with you but even considering what you said (that Muhammad said it is right to self defense only on being attacked first), Muhammad seemed to be revengeful too.
If true Islam was only during Muhammad’s time but its laws were usurped immediately after him, you did not mention about Islamic Law – the Sharia, which every Muslim will not deny. Look likes you are saying that Sharia is a failure since the later rulers could not implement it correctly.
If true Islam was only during Muhammad’s time but its laws were usurped immediately after him, you did not mention about Islamic Law – the Sharia, which every Muslim will not deny. Look likes you are saying that Sharia is a failure since the later rulers could not implement it correctly.
W
worldcitizen
Guest
Hi Reuben,
For a start here is that quote in full.
2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:
J M Rodwell
In the time of Muhammad there were no courts, prisons, corrective service facilities, judges, lawyers or police. There was the open desert. So laws were devised that time based upon that situation to deter would be repeat offenders from things like mass murder and serial rape.
Not all of the Shariah laws come from the Quran. Many of them were devised by Muslim clergy and those that were a part of the Quran were only meant for that age as the Quran states that it is only meant to last for about a thousand years which has passed already and that each age God sends a new message.
So the harsh laws of Moses were for His time and people as were Shariah and today these laws have been replaced. As people find they don’t work they are gradually being discarded. Shariah law has outlived its usefulness and is gradually being replaced by more humanitarian laws to meet the needs of modern man. We now do possess the ability to retrain and the facilities to rehabilitate criminals we never had in the desert so it’s clear that those laws were for that time. However traditionalists have a hard time moving on and letting go of the past. This is the challenge facing humanity currently.
For a start here is that quote in full.
2:190 And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:
J M Rodwell
In the time of Muhammad there were no courts, prisons, corrective service facilities, judges, lawyers or police. There was the open desert. So laws were devised that time based upon that situation to deter would be repeat offenders from things like mass murder and serial rape.
Not all of the Shariah laws come from the Quran. Many of them were devised by Muslim clergy and those that were a part of the Quran were only meant for that age as the Quran states that it is only meant to last for about a thousand years which has passed already and that each age God sends a new message.
So the harsh laws of Moses were for His time and people as were Shariah and today these laws have been replaced. As people find they don’t work they are gradually being discarded. Shariah law has outlived its usefulness and is gradually being replaced by more humanitarian laws to meet the needs of modern man. We now do possess the ability to retrain and the facilities to rehabilitate criminals we never had in the desert so it’s clear that those laws were for that time. However traditionalists have a hard time moving on and letting go of the past. This is the challenge facing humanity currently.
Last edited:
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Hi. I am not going to argue with you because I am not a Muslim. Generally I know about Islam which I have gathered by interacting with Muslim friends since college and after.
I just want to comment on what you said that Sharia has outlived its usefulness and being replaced by humanitarian laws. Your view on this surely is not held by the majority of Muslims who believe in such law. What you said is purely your own opinion which is rather liberal and unusual among Muslims. You need to bring that to your fellow Muslims.
I just want to comment on what you said that Sharia has outlived its usefulness and being replaced by humanitarian laws. Your view on this surely is not held by the majority of Muslims who believe in such law. What you said is purely your own opinion which is rather liberal and unusual among Muslims. You need to bring that to your fellow Muslims.
L
Lea101
Guest
In general (when we look at the whole Muslim population), you’re right.
There’s a lot of moderate Muslims who don’t care for sharia law. Or when they say they do, they are referring to a completely different one. E.g. The sharia court here is severely restricted to divorces/inheritance/stuff of that matter rather than the horror stories we hear of in Middle East. Often Muslims and non Muslims are thinking about two different things when talking about certain things in Islam.
But mosques do need to do a better job in speaking against radicalism in other places. It’s extremely tame here and the law deals with radicals very swiftly. Most Muslims here are happy with a secular government. Imams report those who show signs of radicalism. There are laws to deter people from trashing any religious group. A similar ‘reformation’ needs to happen in other places including our neighboring countries imo.
It’s safe to assume that our laws are extremely incompatible with the American constitution and the overall culture here is very different to the point where I notice the people here and westerners have very different opinions on what the true Islam look like.
R
Raxus
Guest
How so? Islam is being discussed.
W
worldcitizen
Guest
Yes you are correct. Unfortunately a lot of these outdated laws will die hard but we live in a new age and I think many of these laws will just die out eventually through the fact times have changed. I am not a Muslim and never have been but I do believe God sent Muhammad and the Quran to civilise the Arabs. I am confident that in time these people will adapt and change what is no longer acceptable in this age.
A
Augustinian
Guest
The vast majority of muslims aren’t Arab at all- Turks, Iranians, East Indians, black Africans, African Americans, who are muslim far outnumber Arabic muslims.
- Status