Adam and Eve sinned , but why should we all should we all suffer the consequences?

[fhansen]

They were most definitely NOT created perfect. If they were perfect, they would have rejected the serpent and giving him a boot to the head.

They were either:

Naive - they accepted anything the serpent told them without any brain activity

stupid - they fell for something idiotic a cunning snake told them.

proud - they rejected God

fearful - maybe the serpent was 50 feet tall and caused Adam to cringe in fear.

These are things called IMPERFECTIONS. Since perfectly created being does not have imperfections, Adam and Eve obviously were not created perfect.

And because they were imperfect, they were punished for their failure.

I accept his existence and goodness.

If someone doesn’t want to help, how can I trust them in that area?

I trust God in every place except one - the one area in my life where he refuses to help me.

Well, I think it’d be pretty hard to believe in His goodness if we don’t believe in His trustworthiness. And for the same reason His existence doesn’t hold much value if we can’t trust Him. Faith/trust in God is absolutely essential in coming to any deep and authentic peace in this life, because this faith is ultimately faith in the goodness and purpose of existence itself. If God, Himself, was willing to suffer rejection, humiliation, torture and death at the hands of sinful man, His own creation, then suffering is thereby sanctified in this life in a sense-and we should be able to endure it as well, looking forward to the great hope that He has in store for those who place their trust in-and come to love-God.

 

[grannymh]

If the Garden of Eden is the opportunity to turn away from God, then so is heaven.

Finally, I understand what you are saying.:sad_yes:

May peace be with you.

 

[grannymh]

I accept his existence and goodness.

If someone doesn’t want to help, how can I trust them in that area?

I trust God in every place except one - the one area in my life where he refuses to help me.

Now, I understand.

May peace be with you.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

And how many parents give their children the equivalent of a felony for their first infraction?

And not just any felony, a death penalty one?

“They were kids” - that’s even MORE reason to let them stay in the Garden of Eden. What kind of parent kicks their kids out of home after one infraction? THAT is HARSH!

Okay.

Fair enough.

But if God knows the ending from the very beginning, why didn’t he drive away all darkness that was in the Garden at the point of the first sin?

 

[grannymh]

Okay.

Fair enough.

But if God knows the ending from the very beginning, why didn’t he drive away all darkness that was in the Garden at the point of the first sin?

In order to understand Adam as a mature adult with an intellect and will, one has to finally realize the difference between the creature and the Creator. This is the essential piece of information which, apparently, Catholics have either forgotten or were never taught.

So far, no one has even attempted to explain God’s relationship as Creator with His creature. Again, ignoring that piece of information leaves Catholics groping in the dark for some kind of “human” explanation for what is really a divine explanation.

It should be obvious why there was darkness in the Garden as a result of Adam’s free will choice. However, we overlook Who made the light in the Garden.

Maybe it would help if we start with the simple question of what makes a rock perfect.
And then figure out what makes a plant perfect. Then what makes an elephant perfect.

Finally, one could figure out why humans are not perfect rocks.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

In order to understand Adam as a mature adult with an intellect and will, one has to finally realize the difference between the creature and the Creator. This is the essential piece of information which, apparently, Catholics have either forgotten or were never taught.

So far, no one has even attempted to explain God’s relationship as Creator with His creature. Again, ignoring that piece of information leaves Catholics groping in the dark for some kind of “human” explanation for what is really a divine explanation.

It should be obvious why there was darkness in the Garden as a result of Adam’s free will choice. However, we overlook Who made the light in the Garden.

Maybe it would help if we start with the simple question of what makes a rock perfect.
And then figure out what makes a plant perfect. Then what makes an elephant perfect. Finally, one could figure out why humans are not perfect rocks.

Sin messed everything up.

That is OBVIOUS!

Oh…before we start calling things perfect or flawed, let’s come up with a working definition of perfection.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

I’ll try to give one.

That which has no mistake or error. And for humans, that which has never seen sin in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

They were not perfect.

They were either:

Naive - they accepted anything the serpent told them without any brain activity

stupid - they fell for something idiotic a cunning snake told them.

proud - they rejected God

fearful - maybe the serpent was 50 feet tall and caused Adam to cringe in fear.

These are things called IMPERFECTIONS. Since perfectly created being does not have imperfections, Adam and Eve obviously were not created perfect.

They were not functioning as adults, even though their bodies were.

( TMI? )

That’s why God was guiding them in the way He was.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

…God don’t make no junk!!!..

…( when you think Adam and Eve, think all of mankind. )…

 

[grannymh]

Sin messed everything up.

That is OBVIOUS!

Oh…before we start calling things perfect or flawed, let’s come up with a working definition of perfection.

It is not obvious, by scanning threads, that people know why Adam’s sin messed up whatever “everything” refers to.

One of the old-time basic definitions of perfect is that a thing is in keeping with its nature. Thus, a rock is not expected to have the perfection of taking in nourishment, but a plant does. A plant is not expected to roam the valley like a horse whose hoofs are mobile. A horse is not expected to become a rocket scientist. A rocket scientist is not expected to live like a perfect rock.

However, it is always more interesting to point out that one of the definitions of perfect is flawless.

When all the definitions are explored from human expectations, one may turn to what “being in the image of God” means on a human level. Knowing what Genesis 1:27 means will give insight as to why Adam could make an informed choice about his human free actions. However, Catholic teachings continue beyond the first three chapters of Genesis. This is why the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition* is so fascinating.

 

[grannymh]

…God don’t make no junk!!!..

Catholicism teaches that the whole human race is in Adam as “one body of one man.” Romans 5:12-21 explains the real importance of this.

If God did not make junk humans, what did He make?

 

[grannymh]

…God don’t make no junk!!!..

…( when you think Adam and Eve, think all of mankind. )…

Catholicism teaches that the whole human race is in Adam as “one body of one man.” Romans 5:12-21 explains the real importance of this.

If God did not make junk humans, what did He make?

​

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

Catholicism teaches that the whole human race is in Adam as “one body of one man.” Romans 5:12-21 explains the real importance of this.

If God did not make junk humans, what did He make?

​

Try to trade em in for new models.

 

[grannymh]

Try to trade em in for new models.

Every morning when looking in the mirror, I am so ready for a new model.
Guess I better get the Catholic package.

 

[fhansen]

They were not functioning as adults, even though their bodies were.

( TMI? )

That’s why God was guiding them in the way He was.

And I think that’s the crux of the issue, simple as it may sound. Man’s original sin was to reject God’s guidance, to be more “adult” than perhaps he was ever even meant to be. Because man absolutely requires relationship/communion with God in order to have life-in order to be who he was created to be, in order for justice/order to reign within. So man spiritually died when he effectively separated himself from God by his disobedience, by his refusal to let God be his god.

And this is why the NT/NC is all reconciliation-with the Holy Spirit then coming to make His home and dwell within us, this is what it means to be infused with sanctifying grace, to be ‘born again’ or ‘born from above’. And from our perspective this begins-this restored relationship-with faith, implying trust in God, trust having died in man’s heart with the original sin according to our Catechism. We’re actually here to learn how to let God truly be our god again.

 

[BobCatholic]

Well, I think it’d be pretty hard to believe in His goodness if we don’t believe in His trustworthiness. And for the same reason His existence doesn’t hold much value if we can’t trust Him. Faith/trust in God is absolutely essential in coming to any deep and authentic peace in this life, because this faith is ultimately faith in the goodness and purpose of existence itself. If God, Himself, was willing to suffer rejection, humiliation, torture and death at the hands of sinful man, His own creation, then suffering is thereby sanctified in this life in a sense-and we should be able to endure it as well, looking forward to the great hope that He has in store for those who place their trust in-and come to love-God.

Yeah, he was willing to do that, which was of infinite value. But he refuses to help in this one area.

Think of this parable:
Imagine if you had a trillionaire as a friend. He offers to let you stay forever at a mansion on his private island and live in paradise. But you have to get there. And he won’t give you a penny to help here. Gotta figure out how to raise money for the airfare or boatfare somehow.

Now take this parable to temporal life: I cannot commit suicide. I have to figure out how to survive until I die. Yes, God took care of the spiritual part (the mansion and paradise) but I still got to figure out how to survive without being able to raise money or have a career.

But if God knows the ending from the very beginning, why didn’t he drive away all darkness that was in the Garden at the point of the first sin?

I don’t know.

I wish God would explain this!

They were not functioning as adults, even though their bodies were.

( TMI? )

That’s why God was guiding them in the way He was.

And that’s more proof they were imperfect.

…God don’t make no junk!!!..

…( when you think Adam and Eve, think all of mankind. )…

God makes imperfect people.

When all the definitions are explored from human expectations, one may turn to what “being in the image of God” means on a human level. Knowing what Genesis 1:27 means will give insight as to why Adam could make an informed choice about his human free actions. However, Catholic teachings continue beyond the first three chapters of Genesis. This is why the* Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition* is so fascinating.

And a perfect human being has no pride, no naivete no stupidity and no fear. Adam and Eve had those imperfections and thus were imperfect. Those in heaven DO NOT have those imperfections and thus are perfect as human beings can be in their nature.

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 3:15

is known as God’s first announcement of Jesus Christ.

We do not live in a Garden before Jesus Christ. We live now, following Jesus’ obedient death which conquered death for all of us. We need to see ourselves as living in the present time when there is a Catholic Church offering the Seven Helps (sacraments). We need to remember that there is a Way, Truth, and Life (Jesus ).

Yesterday was Good Shepherd Sunday. No matter how much mud we are in, the Good Shepherd (Jesus truly present in the Catholic Eucharist) will pick us up and hold us close to His heart. We need to focus on Our Savior Who shares our burden during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

We need to close our ears to Satan whispering from the tree of temptation.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

And that’s more proof they were imperfect.

God makes imperfect people.

Well…

In the very beginning, Adam and Eve were like two very curious children.

“Curiosity is the mother of invention.”

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

Yeah, he was willing to do that, which was of infinite value. But he refuses to help in this one area.

Think of this parable:
Imagine if you had a trillionaire as a friend. He offers to let you stay forever at a mansion on his private island and live in paradise. But you have to get there. And he won’t give you a penny to help here. Gotta figure out how to raise money for the airfare or boatfare somehow.

Now take this parable to temporal life: I cannot commit suicide. I have to figure out how to survive until I die. Yes, God took care of the spiritual part (the mansion and paradise) but I still got to figure out how to survive without being able to raise money or have a career.

I don’t know.

I wish God would explain this!

And that’s more proof they were imperfect.

God makes imperfect people.

And a perfect human being has no pride, no naivete no stupidity and no fear. Adam and Eve had those imperfections and thus were imperfect. Those in heaven DO NOT have those imperfections and thus are perfect as human beings can be in their nature.

Neither were Jesus.

 

[Aaron_Creagh]

Sin made Adam and Eve imperfect.

and that’s all I have to say about that.