This sentence in post 141 is very interesting. “Man refused to accept his created status.” This is getting closer to Original Sin not being the giver of the knowledge of evil. I do hope that you with continue with that thought.
Since the basis of the argument regarding Adam’s rational capabilities is the time line, when and how did Adam know about his created status?
What did Adam know about his created status? What requirements were attached to Adam’s created status?
First sentence of CCC 396 (Please refer back to post 133.)
**396 **God created man in His image and established him in His friendship.
In some other threads, I have referred to the Catholic doctrines flowing from the first three chapters of Genesis. There is a sense of movement in the word flowing. One can even imagine tiny creeks flowing into major rivers. Using that symbolism, it is easier to understand and accept that not every doctrine is completely explained in the first three chapters of Genesis. Most likely, in order to answer the above questions, one may have to look for additional information found in Catholic doctrines.
granny, IMO you conflate two separate matters here. There’s no question that Adam was given a conscience. The law was written in his heart. He was designed in such a way that to do certain things would be to go against his own nature. He didn’t (maybe) need to know
why this was so, this is just the way things were; like a soldier given a command he was expected to simply do it, because the Commander was worthy of obedience. But he was also given the freedom to break part with that conscience. And in Eden there wasn’t, on the surface at least, anything to test obedience to that conscience with-Adam lived in the midst of good-his life was good. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, however, symbolizes the fact that evil is always a potentiality for a created sentient being with free will, no matter how sophisticated he is; disobedience is a possibility and the outcome of it is disastrous. Man has the freedom to refuse subjugation to God-but he does not have the
right to do so-God’s command expressly denied that right, justice demands that man remain subjugated to God.
The first sin of man wasn’t in committing an act such as theft, sexual impropriety, murder, etc. The first sin was more basic than that-it was the decision to ignore and disobey God/one’s conscience
to begin with. From that disobedience, which opened the floodgates, would flow all other forms of disobedience, of sin, as the catechism teaches.
Adam had a conscience. It may have never otherwise occurred to Adam to sin but his conscience was tested by the serpent together with the pressure of Adam’s peer, Eve. Adam failed. The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil could be named the Tree of the
Awareness of Good and Evil. All that Adam experienced up to that point was God’s creation, the result of His will. Had Adam not sinned, the awareness of any alternative to that will would not have awoken: evil would never have been experienced and the distinction between God’s creation and anything opposed to it would not have been known or made.
Adam was an incredible creation, but he wasn’t God. He apparently needed to learn the “why” of God’s commands for himself, of the worth God and the wisdom of His commands. That’s what he and the rest of humanity are given to do here on this earth. And that’s why St Basil’s little quote applies to Adam as much as to the rest of us:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."
Adam was culpable, but also teachable/reformable. Adam needed to
change, and this change, itself, is part of God’s process of perfecting us, His creation. Adam knew good and evil in the sense that he was given an objective morality, the law, his conscience. He did not have the
experience of evil in Eden. The act of disobedience, itself-eating of the fruit-by separating him from subjugation to God, “won” for Adam, and for us all, that very experience. Now we have to decide, from a different vantage point, from the perspective of a world that’s no longer in subjugation to or communion with God, that’s far from Eden, how much we like that fact, that separation.
You seem to me to stretch its meaning beyond the knowledge given there, tho, near as I can tell. Man refused to accept his created status. He believed a lie rather than the truth spoken by his Creator. He should have known better. He behaved otherwise. Obviously being made in Gods image didn’t prevent him from doing something very foolish. He paid the price. Act One of “Salvation History”.
