Adam was not a sinner

[paarsurrey]

You are talking against what the OLd Testament and New Testament and your ahadith say. I didn’t know that Ahmadiyya is that away from the truth, but well…

Jesus died in Kashmir hahaha sorry couldn’t help:shrug:

Hi

You are welcome to differ with me Sir, but my Catholic friend, you are mistaken here. This way we come in the centre of the truth; truth in OTBible, truth in Ahadith, truth in Science and ultimately truth in Quran- the pristine Word of GodAllahYHWH.
Thanks

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir

 

[inJESUS]

Hi

You are welcome to differ with me Sir, but my Catholic friend, you are mistaken here. This way we come in the centre of the truth; truth in OTBible, truth in Ahadith, truth in Science and ultimately truth in Quran- the pristine Word of GodAllahYHWH.
Thanks

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir

you were given quotations from the Bible and i quoted your ahadith. What else do you need to see that Adam was punished and that his life changed after that?

 

[East_Anglican]

Hi

The man before Adam though was breathing like a horse was breathing or a dove was breathing; man’s distinction over other animates was that he was destined to receive word of God, when that stage came that was a special kind of breathing he received revelation or word of GodAllahYHWH which set new goals of progress for him that were not known to other animals.

God taught man to talk that is breathing new life to man that has been mentioned in the Genesis, to express his emotions and to store knowledge and convey it to future generations, this quality is breathing new life to Adam, previously he was like a moving animal only. Could one ever think such a primitive man could invent any languages? A little rational reasoning is required to get these things from Genesis, never mind if the Clergy could not discern these things from the Book. God sent the Book for everybody, clergy has no exclusive rights on the Book, more than an ordinary men, specially if they cannot understand the Book and the every day sensible things.
Thanks

What does this mean then?

Psalm 150:6
Let everything that has breath praise the LORD.Praise the LORD!

Hi
Adam was not the only PerfectMan created. All ProphetsMessengers like Noah, Abraham, Jacob and Moses were all PerfectMen created.

That’s what Muslims believe. Though it is not true
paarsurrey;2510456:

I could not understand that Adam never suffered an illness while Jesus has to suffer a lot of misery on Cross. Where did you get that, kindly let us know, maybe it is your guess?

Jesus was without sin, therefore he was the perfect sacrifice without blemish. His execution was authrised by the priests, making it a legal sacrifice under Jewish law.

As Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, God was willing rto sacrifice his son. As the Jews were willing to make sacrifices for God, God was willing to make a sacrifice for them. Not just them, but the whole world.

To understand this fully, you must first understand the concept of covenant. God always keeps his covenants.

My Catholic friends should pause a little here, and think unbiased; they would realize that the status of Jesus was higher to Jonah, accepted without doubt, but lesser to Moses.

Son of God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, King of Glory, Messiah, Anointed one, Lord of All etc etc. Moses has no such titles.

 

[inJESUS]

I dont know where Muslims take their ideology from that prophets are sinless …this is neither in the OT nor NT…maybe it is a response to Jesus’ sinlessness that some couldn’t handle.

 

[East_Anglican]

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir

As I now know you are just here on a wind up,

The Lord bless you and keep you, cause his face to shine on you and give you peace,

The grace of The Lord Jesus Christ be with you,

May you know the power of The Cross.

Good Bye!

 

[adrift]

The early Fathers were of the opinion that the expression was used out of humility and to show Christ’s human nature, and this is very probable considering the early rise of Docetism. This is also the opinion of Cornelius a Lapide. Others, such as Knabenbauer, think that He adopted a title which would not give umbrage to His enemies, and which, as time went on, was capable of being applied so as to cover His Messianic claims – to include everything that had been foretold of the representative man, the second Adam, the suffering servant of Jehovah, the Messianic king.

Son of Man
Jesus said He was Son of Adam?

 

[Hellisreal]

Dear paarsurrey,

I want you to re-think what you wrote here carefully.

Then, I will respond to this tomorrow.

This is absolutely NOT an argument I would advise you use in future.

I hope you can do better than this, lest you will be insulting Allah.

Hi

Previously men/women were living naked like all other fellow animals, with the Revelation from GodAllahYHWH, they were supposed to become civilised, so they started to cover themselves with the tree-leaves, that showed their good intention and that they were better placed than the other animals.

It was GodAllahYHWH who provided them first proper clothes, as a token of having forgiven their mistakes and to show his pleasure/love for them.This is mentioned in the OTBible.

Thanks

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir

 

[paarsurrey]

you were given quotations from the Bible and i quoted your ahadith. What else do you need to see that Adam was punished and that his life changed after that?

Hi

You dive deep into the OTBible, and bring some good rational, reasonable pearls of arguments or some among my Catholic friends should for my guidance . It won’t harm you anyway, it will only increase your knowledge.

I respect your religion/faith/denomination and we are hear for a friendly , peaceful discussion . I don’t want anybody to convert unnecessarily to my faith, be steadfast on your religion and enjoy your life and go on presenting your arguments. I love Jesus and Mary.

Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee; hence my Catholic friends believe many creeds created by the Catholic Clergy not originated by Jesus himself in person.

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear paarsurrey,

I want you to re-think what you wrote here carefully.

Then, I will respond to this tomorrow.

This is absolutely NOT an argument I would advise you use in future.

I hope you can do better than this, lest you will be insulting Allah.

Hi

I have written the post after thinking, yet I am a human apt to err. I may make mistakes and it is a friendly discussion, not a debate to win or lose. I would accept my mistake if somebody convinces me and revise my stance. You see I present things with arguments from OTBible which Jesus also often referred to.

I expect others to do the same, present verses from OTBible for the Claim on a issue and gist of **Reason **presented from OTBible and then expanding it with you own perception. It should be very easy to you as Catholics are supposed to adhere to the OTBible and constantly reading it. It should not be difficult for you.

Sir, you please write and I am attentive. May GodAllahYHWH bless you!

Thanks

Revealed Book must have straight passages on every important Religious issues; of course I agree that we are not supposed to find teachings of Sciences and Arts included in the Revealed Books; rather we are mostly concerned with the every day moral, Spiritual and religious issues, and a religious worthwhile book must resolve such issues, if it is for guidance of the common people and truthful to its purpose. If it does not provide guidance on such issues; then what it is for?

 

[inJESUS]

you were given quotations from the Bible and i quoted your ahadith. What else do you need to see that Adam was punished and that his life changed after that?

 

[centurion50]

Hi, Paarsurrey, I want to commend you for some of your later posts, which show you to to be a reasonable and humble person willing to listen to arguments and admit mistakes. You do us all a service by posing interesting questions and making us all think about our Catholic faith. JESUS is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi, Paarsurrey, I want to commend you for some of your later posts, which show you to to be a reasonable and humble person willing to listen to arguments and admit mistakes. You do us all a service by posing interesting questions and making us all think about our Catholic faith.

Hi

Thanks for your appreciation.

I often quote from the writings of the PromisedMessiah, to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to your cherished faith, if you refute his arguments and your arguments exceed that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s arguments; I being steadfast on my faith, keep a window or a door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in this way in direct contest with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[East_Anglican]

Hi

You dive deep into the OTBible, and bring some good rational, reasonable pearls of arguments or some among my Catholic friends should for my guidance . It won’t harm you anyway, it will only increase your knowledge.

I respect your religion/faith/denomination and we are hear for a friendly , peaceful discussion . I don’t want anybody to convert unnecessarily to my faith, be steadfast on your religion and enjoy your life and go on presenting your arguments. I love Jesus and Mary.

We don’t have to dive deep, it’s quite plain from the text that Adam was a sinner.
paarsurrey;2518784:

Since Jesus left no written Word of GodAllahYHWH revealed on him, or authenticated by him when he last departed from Galilee; hence my Catholic friends believe many creeds created by the Catholic Clergy not originated by Jesus himself in person.

Jesus is The Word of God!

 

[paarsurrey]

We don’t have to dive deep, it’s quite plain from the text that Adam was a sinner.

Hi

Adam did make a mistake, but since he repented and was forgiven by GodAllahYHWH so it cannot be called a sin.
For example see:
2 Samuel 12:13
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.

The repentence by man and when forgiven by God makes it only a mistake .

Thanks

 

[Hellisreal]

Paarasurry,

I do apologize and did not mean to confront you or challenge you.

We know from the bible foolish arguments are wrong.

I was being foolish and should have listened to you, yet I did not think about Jesus in my words to you.

If you believe this is why Adam and Eve had to wear clothes, it is not for me to challenge you but to listen and hear you.

I can disagree with you and not have to be so unchristlike in my replies.

This is why I am backing off the forums for a while. Only checking in here and there now.

May peace be upon you brother,

I hope to post with you again when I am ready to return



You are a peaceful man

Thank you for helping me see how I was unfocused.

 

[paarsurrey]

This is why I am backing off the forums for a while. Only checking in here and there now.

Hi

I think you don’t have to back off from the forum to do a little research, both things could be done simultaneously, one only has to focus one’s attention to a topic.

I never challenge anobody , I am a good listener.

Thanks

I often quote from the writings of the PromisedMessiah, to make it convenient for my Catholic friends to convert me to your cherished faith, if you refute his arguments and your arguments exceed that of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s arguments; I being steadfast on my faith, keep a window or a door open to welcome the truth from anywhere it comes to me. The Catholics are in this way in direct contest with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

We Ahmadi Muslims don’t think that Eden was a place in heaven where Adam and Eve were the first human being created. Adam was not the frist human created but he was the first remarkable/perfect person with whom GodAllahYHWH conversed directly. Men women existed before Adam as other animates and animals existed and evolved on earth. That does not mean that Adam evolved from an Ape, no, as an ape evolved from an ape, so man evolved from man.

Adam never sinned, he was a perfect man, yes he made a mistake, that is why it is said to err is human. Adam repented and asked forgiveness from GodAllahYHWH and He forgave him, nevertheless Adam had to shift from the place he was living in previously so that he was not harmed by the persons/tribes/(family tree of) people with whom he was forbidden to keep social contact with, so he had to move elsewhere alongwith his family.

Thanks

The ultimate truth about Jesus is that he died in Kashmir, a natural and respectful death.

 

[adrift]

Hi

Adam did make a mistake, but since he repented and was forgiven by GodAllahYHWH so it cannot be called a sin.
For example see:
2 Samuel 12:13
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, "The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.

The repentence by man and when forgiven by God makes it only a mistake .

Thanks

It is always wise when in a discussion to define terms. What I mean by sin and what you mean by sin seems to be different. [ is nothing else than a morally bad act (St. Thomas, “De malo”, 7:3), an act not in accord with reason informed by the Divine law. God has endowed us with reason and free-will, and a sense of responsibility; He has made us subject to His law, which is known to us by the dictates of conscience, and our acts must conform with these dictates, otherwise we sin (Romans 14:23).

Sin

](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm)
If Adam had not sinned, he would still be in the garden.

 

[adrift]

For some reason the link is not working, I am providing it again.

Sin

Adam - First man and father of the human race

 

[paarsurrey]

For some reason the link is not working, I am providing it again.

Sin

Adam - First man and father of the human race

Hi

Thank you

The ultimate truth about Jesus is:
(Firstly), JesusYeshuaIssa did not leave anything revealed on him from GodAllahYHWH in the form of written stone tablets as was in case of Moses, (Secondly) or anything written by JesusYeshuaIssa himself when he left from Galilee, after the incident of Crucifixion, alongwith his mother Mary in search of the lost ten tribes of the house of Israel, he died natural and peaceful death in Kashmir, India.
Jesus left nothing behind authenticated by him, in possession of the Church.
We do respect the NTGospels which (Thirdly) have account of Jesus life, but it does not have much utility for a non-Catholic, a book of history subject to scrutiny, internal as well as external, for each event for truth on merit