ADL Calls On Politicians To Refrain From Using Holocaust Imagery

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MelanieAnne said:
I’m trying to understand the viewpoints being expressed. Are you saying that since various ADL spokesmen have expressed viewpoints that you believe to be racist/supremacist/etc. that you are, in turn, justified in being uncharitable and insensitive?

It’s not just card carrying members of the ADL who are being insulted here. Cooperation and understanding has to start somewhere. Why can’t it start here? OK so some guys on the other side are bigots. Be charitable and sensitive anyway. It won’t hurt you.
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We’re just sick of liberal Jewish double-standards. Is that a crime? I don’t think that is “insensitive” by any means.
 
RomanCrusader said:
We’re just sick of liberal Jewish double-standards. Is that a crime? I don’t think that is “insensitive” by any means.
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Whether anyone has a double standard or not doesn’t mean we have to have one nor do we need to be insulting. If you review a lot of posts on this thread, some are pretty harsh. No one is making us be that way. We can choose to be another way.
 
MelanieAnne said:
Whether anyone has a double standard or not doesn’t mean we have to have one nor do we need to be insulting. If you review a lot of posts on this thread, some are pretty harsh. No one is making us be that way. We can choose to be another way.
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Was Jesus foaming at the mouth when he called the Pharisees and Scribes serpents or a brood of vipers? Surely not. I don’t think Pope John Paul II was being insensitive in calling abortion the worst form of execution. Fact: Abortion is cold-blooded murder. Until politicians and other religious groups agree that abortion is murder, we will not have peace. That’s something you’ll have to get used to.
 
bones_IV said:
Was Jesus foaming at the mouth when he called the Pharisees and Scribes serpents or a brood of vipers? Surely not. I don’t think Pope John Paul II was being insensitive in calling abortion the worst form of execution. Fact: Abortion is cold-blooded murder. Until politicians and other religious groups agree that abortion is murder, we will not have peace. That’s something you’ll have to get used to.
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I’m not disputing that abortion is murder, if you read what I have written, this isn’t what I am talking about, so I don’t have to get used to anything.

I’m saying that we don’t have to be insulting or insensitive to people just because we don’t like them or we don’t like what they say. Even if everyone agrees that the ADL says and does very questionable things doesn’t mean we have to be insulting or rude or insensitive in return. We cannot justify our own uncharitable behavior because someone else, in our opinion, is worse.
 
MelanieAnne said:
I’m not disputing that abortion is murder, if you read what I have written, this isn’t what I am talking about, so I don’t have to get used to anything.

I’m saying that we don’t have to be insulting or insensitive to people just because we don’t like them or we don’t like what they say. Even if everyone agrees that the ADL says and does very questionable things doesn’t mean we have to be insulting or rude or insensitive in return. We cannot justify our own uncharitable behavior because someone else, in our opinion, is worse.
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We’re not being uncharitable, we’re disagreeing! Saint Paul instucts us to “admonish the sinners”, which is exactly what Bones and I are doing here. This whole new age idea of not hurting anyones feelings is totally foreign to the traditional Catholic Church
 
MelanieAnne said:
We cannot justify our own uncharitable behavior because someone else, in our opinion, is worse.
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When someone like Foxman tells people to stop linking abortion w/ the holocaust perhaps I have reason to be concerned. And when I say he’s using Jewish supremism, it is not being uncharitable towards anyone. What part of “go and baptize all nations” don’t you understand? Are we not our brothers keeper? We can’t be politically correct and give evil the appearance of good.
 
You know what, I say let them have the stinking word. It’s a landslide anyway, we need to come up with a word to describe abortion that is worse. More have been killed by being hacked to death and burned to death with chemicals in the womb than were killed in world war II! I think something like “mega blood-and-guts death of the 20th and 21st century” or something 😃
 
bones_IV said:
Unforgivable? :bigyikes: Then don’t pray the Our Father anymore.
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Note: I reread my post and saw that, and deleted it since the words i wanted weren’t there. I am also guessing you are saying that in a joking manner…I wouldn’t think you’d attack someone on YOUR side.
 
Delphinus85 said:
Note: I reread my post and saw that, and deleted it since the words i wanted weren’t there. I am also guessing you are saying that in a joking manner…I wouldn’t think you’d attack someone on YOUR side.
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Be careful what you write is all I’m saying.
 
bones_IV said:
When someone like Foxman tells people to stop linking abortion w/ the holocaust perhaps I have reason to be concerned. And when I say he’s using Jewish supremism, it is not being uncharitable towards anyone. What part of “go and baptize all nations” don’t you understand? Are we not our brothers keeper? We can’t be politically correct and give evil the appearance of good.
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You’re getting what I have advocated all wrong. I’m saying if Jews, and please remember Foxman doesn’t represent all Jews - there are many he does not represent and yet they TOO have an issue with the word - so if Jews, as a group, are offended by the use of the word ‘holocaust’ in connection with abortion because THEY think it takes away from their message, then I say ~ let them have the word. We can use another word. There are lots of words.

We don’t have to go around the world offending people, hurting their feelings, to make a point. If “holocaust” offends someone, we can use another word. We can be more creative. As other posters have clearly pointed out, if you use the word holocaust in its most purely defined sense, it doesn’t fit “abortion” because abortion doesn’t involve fire. I’ve been as guilty as anyone about this. I’ve referred to the “abortion holocaust” countless times. I’m going to stop because I can. I can express myself differently and still make the point.

When I asked for my fellow Catholics to observe some charity in this case, I wasn’t asking anyone to endorse any sort of supremacism. I was asking everyone to look beyond polarizing figures such as Foxman and the ADL and look and some of the posters in this very forum who are Jewish and who are offended by the appropriation of the word “holocaust” to describe every sort of genocide.

That THEY (that great word “they” covering so many but in this case in refers to Jews & not just Foxman & the ADL) are offended doesn’t have to make sense to us. Not everything in life has to make sense to us for us to show some sensitivity. And NO this is not a comment born of some “new age” clap trap. This is just common sense. Sometimes the best thing to do is to just keep still and if your mother or grandmother didn’t teach you that, well, it’s time to learn.

I understand the words “go and baptize all nations”. That’s not at issue with what I am saying. I also understand that I AM my brother’s keeper. That’s why I came back here, after deleting my subscription to the thread to ask you to reconsider.

Sometimes we have to go beyond the headline. We don’t live in headlines, we live in the real world. If we decide to call abortion “genocide” instead of a “holocaust” it doesn’t make abortion any less than the murder it is. If that simple change of terms means that we Catholics don’t offend millions of Jews - NOT Foxman, NOT the ADL - but millions of ordinary people just like us, then what is the harm and what, if not for pure and simple stubbornness and a total absence of charity, is the getting in the way?

Examine your conscience. I submit that your conscience, with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, will tell you that it is not necessary to offend people who have suffered greatly in the past in order to be clear about your concerns about current problems. As Catholics, we’re lucky to have such an examination as a Sacrament. We can be thankful for that.
 
Abortion actually does fit the definition of a holocaust;
hol·o·caust /ˈhɒləˌkɔst, ˈhoʊlə-/ [hol-uh-kawst, hoh-luh-]: –noun
  1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, esp. by fire.
  2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering.
  3. (usually initial capital letter) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during World War II (usually prec. by the).
    4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
I for one will not stop refering to abortion as a holocaust, because it is! And if you want to get technical then you would use the word genocide to describe the murder of Jews during WWII, as that is a more accurate description of what occured.

gen·o·cide /ˈdʒɛnəˌsaɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jen-uh-sahyd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.
 
So we’re back to the dictionary again instead of something more productive. And in your need to do this you antagonize people and do not care who you antagonize. I’m not talking about the ADL, but regular people, even some who post to this board. That’s unCatholic/unChristian.

I used to do the same thing, but I have learned. I’ve called upon you to learn, but I guess you don’t want to, you’d rather cling to something that hurts people and bring out the dictionary to defend yourself. I have to wonder about people who profess to be charitable who can then turn around and insist on deliberately antagonizing an entire group of people.

I have done my best. I’m giving up now. I can do no more. May God forgive you.
 
I’m sick of being forced to suck up to the Jews. I’ll use the word holocaust if I like and I really don’t care what the Jews, Foxman and otherwise, think.

My people (the Irish) suffered horrible atrocities, and yet I don’t walk around demanding that people worship me because I’m “persecuted”. I can’t say the same for a lot of Jews.
 
RomanCrusader said:
I’m sick of being forced to suck up to the Jews. I’ll use the word holocaust if I like and I really don’t care what the Jews, Foxman and otherwise, think.

My people (the Irish) suffered horrible atrocities, and yet I don’t walk around demanding that people worship me because I’m “persecuted”. I can’t say the same for a lot of Jews.
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To be fair, they’re not demanding that we worship them because of the Holocaust. But you’re right that they don’t own exclusive rights to the word “Holocaust.”
 
MelanieAnne said:
So we’re back to the dictionary again instead of something more productive. And in your need to do this you antagonize people and do not care who you antagonize. I’m not talking about the ADL, but regular people, even some who post to this board. That’s unCatholic/unChristian.
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Rabbi Yehuda Levin routinely calls abortion “the new holocaust”.

I’m take an Orthodox Rabbi like Yehuda Levin over some money-grubbing atheist Jew like Foxman any day of the week.
 
Melanie:

So you find that the phrase"abortion holocaust" is offensive? :confused:

What about things like this, do you find them offensive?
“Jesus was a bastard born of adultery.”
" Mary was a whore: Jesus was an evil man"
“Jesus was a magician and a fool. Mary was an adulteress”.
Please note that these things can be found in the Talmud. Looks like someone is antagonizing Chrisitians!
 
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