ADL List of "top issues affecting Jews" includes traditional Catholic prayer!

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adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/5197_00.htm

“In a return to the Latin Mass, the Vatican included a prayer that calls for the conversion of Jews. Following strong objections from the Jewish community, a senior Vatican official said the prayer could be removed from the re-introduced Latin liturgy. The inclusion of the prayer for the conversion of Jews in the Latin Mass presented a theological setback to the reforms of Vatican II and a challenge to Catholic-Jewish relations.”

Leave it to the arrogant bigots of the Anti-Defamation League to attack Catholic prayers. How dare these left-wing Jewish-supremacists try and censor OUR prayers? To not pray for the Jews would be the most anti-semetic thing of all!

Oh, and here’s another “major Jewish issue”, brought to you by the ADL:

“Religion was thrust front and center in the race for the presidency, with some of the candidates openly professing their faith on the campaign trail, and others feeling it necessary to explain their religious beliefs to voters. By the end of the year some candidates were making references to Christian beliefs and values in holiday campaign commercials. These appeals to religious Americans were a major concern of Jewish organizations and others who saw a troubling precedent in such an open discussion of faith and the potential implications for church-state separation in the United States, and for the sensibilities of those not of the majority faith, and those of no faith. Coupled with court decisions like the Supreme Court’s ruling in Hein v. Freedom From Religion Foundation making it more difficult for taxpayers to challenge violations of the First Amendment, this was an ominous trend for religious liberty in the U.S.”

Hello you morons, Christians make up 80% of this country while Jews make up 2%! I know you desire an atheistic left-wing dictatorship, but just SHUT UP already!

Is anyone else seriously getting fed up with these ADL creeps? I know I complain about the ADL a lot, but seriously they are just as bad as the ACLU.
 
As Christians, we seem to not be allowed to be offended by actions of others. This is pure garbage. It is time we fight back and get in these people faces. :mad:
 
WanderAimlessly said:
As Christians, we seem to not be allowed to be offended by actions of others. This is pure garbage. It is time we fight back and get in these people faces. :mad:
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On the contrary, it is written (2 Tim 2:24-25) **A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth **
 
Francine_Peters said:
On the contrary, it is written (2 Tim 2:24-25) **A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth **
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A verse taken out of context. Wanderaimlessly’s point is that we need to defend the faith. Francine, we need to pray for our separated brethren the Jewish people. :crossrc:
 
Makes you shudder to think what kind of world would we have if the ADL had total control…Pagan Rome #2?:knight1:
 
bones_IV said:
A verse taken out of context.
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Did you read the context before you made this statement? The context is right on the money talking about engaging in stupid debates. If the ADL does not qualify, I do not know what does. I think FP and St. Paul have the best advice on how to address this issue. I do not think “in your face” will work. In fact, it would probably just feed their persecution complex. Tolerant and kind correction would probably be more effective.
 
pnewton said:
Did you read the context before you made this statement? The context is right on the money talking about engaging in stupid debates. If the ADL does not qualify, I do not know what does. I think FP and St. Paul have the best advice on how to address this issue. I do not think “in your face” will work. In fact, it would probably just feed their persecution complex. Tolerant and kind correction would probably be more effective.
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Here’s what Wanderaimlessly says:
As Christians, we seem to not be allowed to be offended by actions of others. This is pure garbage. It is time we fight back and get in these people faces. :mad:
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FP says:
On the contrary, it is written (2 Tim 2:24-25) A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth
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I don’t think St. Paul was contradicting what Wanderaimlessly said. Think before you speak. Do you read your bible? What makes you the official interpreter of the scripture?
 
One cannot wonder if the ADL had free reign and could stifle all expressions of Christianity it would…persecution then would follow.

For a single organization to make such outrageous allegations, as its history shows, if gone unchallenged would be a powerful force due to apathy.

ADL hides behind “freedom of speech” and uses that “freedom” to attack the “freedom of religion.” As we are taught, “you can know one by their deeds.” ADL put out the clarion call that the movie “Passion of the Christ,” will result in violence against Jews. That never happened. ADL is an imperfect organization and very irresponsible.

There should be a counterpart to neutralize the ADL…one that rebutes the ADL with TRUTH, IMO. :knight1:
 
The inclusion of the prayer for the conversion of Jews in the Latin Mass presented a theological setback to the reforms of Vatican II and a challenge to Catholic-Jewish relations.
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Really? Vatican II said that we are no longer supposed to want people to believe in Jesus? That sure is news to me…good thing someone not affiliated with the Church in any way told me. :rolleyes:

In Christ,
Rand
 
bones_IV said:
Here’s what Wanderaimlessly says:

FP says:

I don’t think St. Paul was contradicting what Wanderaimlessly said. Think before you speak. Do you read your bible? What makes you the official interpreter of the scripture?
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You are really inquiring if I read the Bible? You can’t be serious. This is to be considered a serious response? I do not consider my self an official interpreter of the Bible. I was only pointing out that you are not such an official, as you declared, with no explanation other than your say so, that the verse quoted was out of context.

On the other hand, I pointed out the context in question and explained why I believe it to be appropriate. I still do.

Namely, after reading the ADL article I believe it to be a stupid and foolish point they make. YOu may differ and believe the ADL has a valid arguement. However, if it is a stupid and foolish point, then it fits what Paul is describing to Timothy and Paul’s advice on how to proceed would be prudent.

If youd disagree, do you have a reason or do you have more personal remarks to make?

I still believe that matching bluster with bluster feeds into their persecution complex. I never said we shouldn’t defend the faith, just that we should do so wisely.
 
You can confront errors with the truth calmly, dispassionately and charitably. Try this:

The ADL’s alarm at the candidates discussions about their faith and the ways in which their beliefs guide their decisions in life is in conflict with the stated goals of the ADL. The ADL must decide if they advocate freedom of thought and expression or not. If the American people desire to hear about the religious convictions of candidates then neither the ADL nor any organization has any business attempting to browbeat candidates into not responding.

Strange that the ADL feels ethically at ease in telling America it should convert to the civil/religious total separation it espouses, but simultaneously objects to the Catholic Church praying for the conversion of non-christians to Catholicism.

Makes one want to ask: Is it OK to proselytize your convictions or not? Would the real ADL please stand up?
 
Francine_Peters said:
On the contrary, it is written (2 Tim 2:24-25) **A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. It may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth **
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I disagree. We need to fight, and fight hard. The only reason why Europe was Christian and not Heretic or Mohammedan was because people were willing to act.

Speak up, the time for namby pambyism based on ignorance of history and the scriptures is over!
 
Let us try a little application of the Golden Rule, in which Catholics are the ones on the other side. Is it it okay for anti-Catholics to consider us all not Christian and aggressively and angrily convert Catholics out of the Church? I can say that they should stick to facts and reason as present in 2 Timothy 2:25, without being hypocritical. Such confrontation should be done with respect of each other and seasoned with kindness. I am anything but namby-pamby. I just don’t believe in stupid tactics just to satisfy our emotional needs for treatment in kind.
 
Foxman has his nose out of joint because the Church is finally returning to a position of theological strength, instead of rolling over on its back in front of everyone who disagrees with it and offering to sing “Kum Bah Yah” in big field full of blue cornflowers. In other words, the Church is ceasing to be irrelevant and manipulable, and he doesn’t like it one bit.

But then, he’s had his nose out of joint ever since Mel Gibson began production on The Passion. He doesn’t like Traditional Catholicism.

However, what strikes me is this: "Following strong objections from the Jewish community, a senior Vatican official said the prayer could be removed from the re-introduced Latin liturgy."

So, the Holy See says the prayer can be removed, thus removing the source of the objection. So, what’s the problem, Foxman? You’re so bored you have to invent things to complain about?
 
I think they should shut up and tolerate our beliefs, that Jesus was the Messiah and Judaism is incomplete. I tolerate their belief that Jesus was not the Messiah.
 
Jesus didn’t tell us to fight with anyone. The ADL is entitled to express its concerns. As Catholics, we need to be producing good fruit and with a concern to the “things that come out of a man’s mouth.” As individual Catholics, we cannot change things as the authorities within the Church can. The ADL’s concerns should be properly addressed by them.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Jesus didn’t tell us to fight with anyone. The ADL is entitled to express its concerns. As Catholics, we need to be producing good fruit and with a concern to the “things that come out of a man’s mouth.” As individual Catholics, we cannot change things as the authorities within the Church can. The ADL’s concerns should be properly addressed by them.

God bless,
Ed
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If your version of not fighting includes tolerating sin then you have a warped version of peace.
 
Oh brother. My message is: Church authorities are in a position to address this, not individual Catholics.

As far as tolerance goes, let me take a moment here to review:

“OH please, please, let those poor women have abortions so they don’t have to die in back alley, coat hanger abortions! Oh please!”

“Oh please, tolerate gay marriage because well, just tolerate it, they are not hurting anyone!”

I voted against gay marriage. No, I’ve realized that tolerance is a one-way street. But are you going to accuse people first and ask questions later? That’s right, the Church is in a position to evaluate all problems and to act. And Pope Benedict has been doing a very good job in identifying problems and informing the faithful. In the meantime, I have to make sure to remove the plank from my own eye before I make accusations toward anyone.

God bless,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
In the meantime, I have to make sure to remove the plank from my own eye before I make accusations toward anyone.
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Ed, I am sorry that you were unfairly singled out in a personal attack. I notice that nothing in your first post even hinted at tolerance for sin.

Folks, there is nothing wrong with proposing that a prudent response to accusations against Catholics or Catholicism involves restraint, expecially on an individual level. I would be surprised if ever in the history of evengelism even one convert was won by getting in the face of the person needing conversion. As Peter Kreeft put it, these people are not our enemies, they are our patients. Even if they do not know it and hate us for our beliefs, they still are in our care as we meet them and interact with them.

When I, and others, propose that we not return fire, it is not because we are mamby pamby or tolerant of sin. That type of character assasination may make you feel good, but it does nothing but demonstrate that you really have no valid point. Like all ad homenim attacks, they say more about the attacker than the one being attacked.

I will end with another Kreeft-ism. You don’t fight fire with fire. That is the way the world thinks. You fight fire with water.
 
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