Adultery?

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You don’t know what other posters here have been through.

God does not help us by leading us into adultery.
Correct, but nobody knows what my sister has ‘really’ been through!

God does not help us by leading us into adultery but i am sure he is there to help us when we do! Remember, God is all love!! He knows us!! He cares for us!! He loves us and wants us to remain faithful to him and he wants to help us through our darkest days!!
 
Correct, but nobody knows what my sister has ‘really’ been through!

God does not help us by leading us into adultery but i am sure he is there to help us when we do! Remember, God is all love!! He knows us!! He cares for us!! He loves us and wants us to remain faithful to him and he wants to help us through our darkest days!!
Let us stick to your situation. You know what you promised your wife–to love and honor her all the days of her life, through good and bad. You know that you vowed before God, your friends and family, and the Church to be true to her. Is this what you call being true? Is it honoring her to sneak around and carry on friendships with other women that you keep secret from her?

Don’t fool yourself. Only keep the friendships that you can be honest with her about, and be honest with yourself about whether you are really persevering in your promise about forsaking all others, or whether your vows to your wife are what you are really forsaking.

If you cannot live in peace with her under the same roof, that is another matter, but also a matter you need to work out directly with her. If it is damaging to you to live with her, you may have grounds to establish a life apart from her. That is down the road, though. You have to make a good-faith effort with her and put your concerns on the table with her, and not just sneak away from her for the comforts offered by someone else.
 
…just because you said some vows…!!
If you don’t think you sister is under any obligation to God, why would you presume to believe He’ll feel any obligation to be understanding towards her?

If God can not count on me to keep my word to Him and be faithful, I don’t think I can count on His assurances which are directed to the faithful.
 
God is mercy. God is love. God is full of understanding for our weak, pathetic ways!
Yes! But do you give the same wight to his Justice and perfect sense of good and Holy. If God just was a bundle of Mercy and if it is hard to keep his commands no problem he understands it was hard. Then why have the commands at all? Why have any sort of rule of theological Law? Why would God set the rules in opposition to the fulfillment of those rules? Wouldn’t that be sadistic?

In short. “Do not commit adultery” Is not just “meh, only if it is easy” God actually takes it BEYOND that. Jesus says not to even LOOK lustfully lest you commit it in your heart.

Don’t you feel that this all merciful God deserves some obedience on our part to show our love? Or is that only when it is easy?

I know, lets ask the saints how easy it was… They are in heaven you know…

God did not say “take up your cross and follow me but only if the way is easy and the cross is light…”
I encourage you to see though all the justification BS and realize that gee, he will e merciful because it is hard is really just another way of saying, “I choose my genitals over God”

And don’t feel too bad. I would say a good 90 percent of these forums and indeed people struggling with The Church of God Himself comes down to that single statement.
 
Ok, married for 30 years. Gets very friendly with a member of opposite sex who is also married. No sex. But cuddles, holding hands. Comforting and loving. Both agree to no sex at all.

Both sets of partners are non loving so that is why above has happened.

Is the above adultery?
My opinion is that if your spouse would feel like he/she is being cheated on, then it is cheating. Any activity which is illicit undermines your relationship. If you can’t share your behavior with your spouse, then you need to work on your communication, or change your behavior. The only other option is to end the marriage, which in Catholicism is not considered to be a valid option.

If your spouse is in the loop, and is OK with this, then I personally see no problem with it. Those more familiar with Catholic doctrine might have another opinion.
 
For people to do what you have suggested above it just goes to show that they were not ‘truly’ in love. To be truly in love is totally different. To be totally in love means giving your life for the other person. If true love is involved there is no way one can just ‘switch off’.
I think you have a silly schoolgirls idea of “true” love. I’d bet my bottom dollar your sister thought she was truly in love with her husband when she married him…

What she is looking for is not “true” love. She’s looking for her happy hormone fix just like any other drug addict. Her marriage settled into middle age and her husband can’t get her “high” anymore, but the new guy can.

No one said she could “switch off” her feelings for this other woman’s husband. But she can exercise some self discipline like an adult and choose not to act on her feelings by breaking contact. She simply refuses to do so. She is actually being extremely selfish. She is about to ruin two entire families, spouses, children, and in-laws on both sides, so that she can have what she wants. Can you imagine a more selfish act? I can’t.

The truth is that she could walk away from this any time she chooses to, but instead she is saying “Waaah, waaah…but I wuves him and I don’t wanna cuz it’s hard and my feelings would be all hurt!”

Yes, it’s hard. Marriage is hard. Life’s hard. That’s the reality of it. And might I remind you that she chose this difficulty? She could have stopped it before it started, but she chose to continue until a possible adulterous situation became an entirely adulterous situation. She wasn’t some poor lamb lead to slaughter. She knew what was going on and where it was headed and she chose to go down that road. A lot of adulterous spouses and their affair partners on the other forum like to paint themselves as victims until someone points out, rightfully so, that they chose to put themselves in their situations.

True love is a choice we make every day. We decide to do the right thing for God, for those we love, and for ourselves as children of God. Your sister and her paramour aren’t truly loving anyone. Including themselves.

I wonder how much she’ll “love” this new guy when she’s washing the stains out of his underwear, listening to him snore in the wee hours, and is faced with the emotional fallout of her actions.

One of the ladies on the other forum had to leave her job over her affair turned remarriage. Her boss and co-workers eventually caught wind of it and she was pretty much shamed into leaving since no one trusted her to work with them. Her kids and most of her family either hated her outright or talked about her behind her back like she was a dog. His family hated her because they saw her as a homewrecker, a title she did earn, after all. Her story is not uncommon there. A lot of those women and men who have had to face reality regret their decisions to have an affair and leave their marriages.
But, as humans, true love is very very hard to ignore! We are not robots, we are not angels. We have feelings. Love can be very very strong indeed1

God knows us 100%.

I pray that he helps us when we find ‘real’ love. A real companion. A true love.

Not every marriage can be a success!! God know this
God does understand us. That’s why he gave us rules to live by. In giving us the Commandments, God was telling us how to live lives that would be bearable because He understands the fallen nature of man and the consequences we face when we commit sin.
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You are coming close to excusing your sister’s adultery. I am sure it is painful for you. But honestly don’t you even know how silly some of that sounds.
Honestly, most of this thread has been Ajecphotos acting as an Apologist for her sisters adultery.

See below.
Still, staying together for vows that cannot be kept, for a love that has vanished, for a bond that has broken, for a life that is full of of hardship is just not realistic! God knows this. God knows us. He knows our limits. He knows our failures.

Can one be expected to remain in a marriage when love has vanished for good? When vows cannot be kept? When true love has gone for good?

Is one to remain in that situation because of the vows?

I honestly think that God understands our weaknesses. I truly believe that God helps us in these situations. God is all loving, all caring, full of mercy and understanding.

Not everyone can find a true partner for life! God is love.

God helps. God works in mysterious ways!!

Trust in God! Pray to God! God loves u!!!
I presume your sister was an adult catholic who understood what she was consenting to what she was vowing to do, and who she was vowing it in front of, when she married.

That whole spiel is getting very tired and worn out. You know as well as the rest of us the the vows we take when validly marrying DO NOT have an out clause.

The Marriage Vows: I (name) take you (name) for my lawful wife/husband, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

It doesn’t say anything in there about “Until I fall in love with someone else.” Or “Only until I feel I am not in love with you anymore.”
 
People, i do appreciate your posts and read them with care.

For those that have not read the thread properly (See some posts above) this thread is about my sister, not me.

Anyway, i do believe that it is not cut and dried as some of you point out.

You have all heard of Divine Mercy? See my link below.

God knows us. He knows we are weak. He knows we are massive sinners who can fall very easily.

Didnt Jesus say to those that wanted to stone that poor lady in the Gospel that those without sin to throw the first stone? Doesnt that show that Jesus is full of mercy? He knows we are big sinners. He knows how hard it is for us to be saints!

Jesus can forgive. Jesus does forgive. So, my sister has lost in her marriage. Jesus knows this. Will he condemn her to hell? Will he show her mercy? According to lots on her she is doomed!!! ONLY GOD KNOWS US!! ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE.

I pray that God will understand and forgive. I am optimistic about the situation. I believe in God. Only God knows us individually. It is very very easy to condemn someone without knowing the situation or the full facts. Jesus forgave many sinners in the New Testament.
 
Why not give the rest if the story? I believe Jesus told her to go and sin no more.

You are way too involved in your sisters (literal) affair. Who asked you to apologize, justify or otherwise seek acceptance for her sins? I almost don’t believe this is about your sister anymore.
 
Why not give the rest if the story? I believe Jesus told her to go and sin no more.

You are way too involved in your sisters (literal) affair. Who asked you to apologize, justify or otherwise seek acceptance for her sins? I almost don’t believe this is about your sister anymore.
Thats fine. You can believe what you want to believe.

Just for the record, she is my twin sister! We are very close indeed. Everyone needs someone in their corner when times are tough. I wont desert her even when i know she is sinning big time. I will stand by her and pray to God for her.

Like i have said before, everyones situation is different. I am sure that God doesnt treat us all the same! God is mercy. God is love.
 
I guess those really were the Ten Suggestions then, not commandments.
 
People, i do appreciate your posts and read them with care.

For those that have not read the thread properly (See some posts above) this thread is about my sister, not me.

Anyway, i do believe that it is not cut and dried as some of you point out.

You have all heard of Divine Mercy? See my link below…

…I pray that God will understand and forgive. I am optimistic about the situation. I believe in God. Only God knows us individually. It is very very easy to condemn someone without knowing the situation or the full facts. Jesus forgave many sinners in the New Testament.
OK, I will tell you my story. One of my relatives came to me because he had found his soul mate. Unfortunately, he was already married to someone else, someone he felt did not understand him at all. His soul mate, meanwhile, needed his emotional support.

This is what I told him. A) Your soul mate may indeed need emotional support, but what she does not need is emotional support wrapped up in the package of an emotional affair with a married man. That she needs support does not mean you are a good choice to supply what she needs. More to the point, B) he needed to do the work on his first commitment and figuring out what was wrong with it before he jumped into another commitment. I have just known too many people who either realized that their first marriage had not been given a fair chance or who jumped into a second marriage with all the same problems that the first one had, a truth obscured by the thrill of a new romance until it was too late.

So, OK, he breaks it off with the friend to whom he was becoming inordinately attached. He started going to counselling with his wife, to find out why their marriage wasn’t working and to make an intelligent decision about whether to keep living together without the muddying influence of someone standing behind Door Number Two.

He is still married to his first wife, and they are very happy. By doing so, he has also increased the chance that his children will remain married when it is their turn. He learned things about himself that improved his other relationships, as well. He also avoided the expense and heartbreak of going through a divorce, and even those who have gone through the most “amicable” of divorces will tell you that this is well worth avoiding like you’d avoid setting your own hair on fire. If you are not protecting your sister from the chance of wrecking her marriage and going through a divorce, you are not in her corner. You are enabling her in her self-delusion. My brothers wouldn’t do that to me, and thank Heavens for them! They can keep their feet on the ground for me when I’m being stupid. That is real compassion, because it is caring that cares even when it isn’t liked for caring. Your parents aren’t compassionate when they are more interested in being friends than being parents. The same can be said of anyone we ought to be able to trust to hold our feet to the fire and choose to be the best version of ourselves. That, Bro, means you.

Meanwhile, I think I mentioned the other people I know who have regretted their decision to jump out of a marriage that they haven’t tried to fix. Others have disgusted their children, friends and relatives by “turning” on a spouse suddenly and leaving without warning and without any real opportunity for rehabilitating their marriage. Yes, these were the people who had witnessed the vows and knew what a different song he was singing than on his wedding day. They do not tend to like the “new person,” whom they see as a self-centered home wrecker with no conscience.

Tell your sister to work her way though her marriage problems, and to satisfy herself that she had exhausted her options for fulfilling her vows. If it is impossible to live in peace, she may separate with the bond remaining. Until then, she should not have any social life that she doesn’t disclose fully to her spouse and she should avoid situations with her friends that present a near occasion of the sin of more serious physical infidelity. Physical adultery is a pit that can be fallen into, and many good people have allowed themselves to fall into it because they were arrogant about their ability to be “just a little bit unfaithful.” She should not allow that to be her. If she does her work and in the end finds honestly that the marriage was invalid, she can be declared free to marry. She’ll know the mistakes she made in the first marriage, and if she marries again she will be far more likely to have a valid attempt instead of an invalid one. Oh, and think of how happy she will be, if she finds she can grow her current and true marriage into the best version that it always could have been, and yet never had been! (I have seen this happen, too…👍)

I myself had a very close friend who could have become my soul mate. He does understand me in ways my husband never will. To have left my faithful husband for him would have been a gross betrayal of my husband but also a disservice to myself. Tell her to stop and turn back, before it is too late. Go the way of integrity. Live a life that can be lived out in the open. It is worth the trouble.

Give her the support of recognizing how hard this is. Give her the support of doing more listening than talking. Do not, however, allow her to sell you her self-delusion and call that support. That is BS. (bad support…)
 
PS Should she tell her spouse about this current inordinate attachment?

If she wants to work on her current marriage without disclosing to her husband how emotionally attached she had been becoming to someone else, that could be supported, provided she puts some distance in between herself and that near occasion of more serious infidelity. There is a reason that the good Lord doesn’t make us our spouse’s mind readers. Alas, the infidelities in thought of others we hear about are far harder to forget than the infidelities of mind that we commit in our own heads. An infidelity of thought is probably best left unspoken, since once spoken it cannot be taken back. It is better to hope that in a more sane moment, we’ll realize we did not mean it. It does need to be repented of, however, and it needs to be rejected as a future chosen action. It is not innocent, but an offense against our marriage vows.

She promised to love her husband and to forsake all others. She needs to do that.
 
Ok, married for 30 years. Gets very friendly with a member of opposite sex who is also married. No sex. But cuddles, holding hands. Comforting and loving. Both agree to no sex at all.

Both sets of partners are non loving so that is why above has happened.

Is the above adultery?
Could be an emotional affair.

This really is NOT what they should be doing. :tsktsk:
 
OK, I will tell you my story. One of my relatives came to me because he had found his soul mate. Unfortunately, he was already married to someone else, someone he felt did not understand him at all. His soul mate, meanwhile, needed his emotional support.

This is what I told him. A) Your soul mate may indeed need emotional support, but what she does not need is emotional support wrapped up in the package of an emotional affair with a married man. That she needs support does not mean you are a good choice to supply what she needs. More to the point, B) he needed to do the work on his first commitment and figuring out what was wrong with it before he jumped into another commitment. I have just known too many people who either realized that their first marriage had not been given a fair chance or who jumped into a second marriage with all the same problems that the first one had, a truth obscured by the thrill of a new romance until it was too late.

So, OK, he breaks it off with the friend to whom he was becoming inordinately attached. He started going to counselling with his wife, to find out why their marriage wasn’t working and to make an intelligent decision about whether to keep living together without the muddying influence of someone standing behind Door Number Two.

He is still married to his first wife, and they are very happy. By doing so, he has also increased the chance that his children will remain married when it is their turn. He learned things about himself that improved his other relationships, as well. He also avoided the expense and heartbreak of going through a divorce, and even those who have gone through the most “amicable” of divorces will tell you that this is well worth avoiding like you’d avoid setting your own hair on fire. If you are not protecting your sister from the chance of wrecking her marriage and going through a divorce, you are not in her corner. You are enabling her in her self-delusion. My brothers wouldn’t do that to me, and thank Heavens for them! They can keep their feet on the ground for me when I’m being stupid. That is real compassion, because it is caring that cares even when it isn’t liked for caring. Your parents aren’t compassionate when they are more interested in being friends than being parents. The same can be said of anyone we ought to be able to trust to hold our feet to the fire and choose to be the best version of ourselves. That, Bro, means you.

Meanwhile, I think I mentioned the other people I know who have regretted their decision to jump out of a marriage that they haven’t tried to fix. Others have disgusted their children, friends and relatives by “turning” on a spouse suddenly and leaving without warning and without any real opportunity for rehabilitating their marriage. Yes, these were the people who had witnessed the vows and knew what a different song he was singing than on his wedding day. They do not tend to like the “new person,” whom they see as a self-centered home wrecker with no conscience.

Tell your sister to work her way though her marriage problems, and to satisfy herself that she had exhausted her options for fulfilling her vows. If it is impossible to live in peace, she may separate with the bond remaining. Until then, she should not have any social life that she doesn’t disclose fully to her spouse and she should avoid situations with her friends that present a near occasion of the sin of more serious physical infidelity. Physical adultery is a pit that can be fallen into, and many good people have allowed themselves to fall into it because they were arrogant about their ability to be “just a little bit unfaithful.” She should not allow that to be her. If she does her work and in the end finds honestly that the marriage was invalid, she can be declared free to marry. She’ll know the mistakes she made in the first marriage, and if she marries again she will be far more likely to have a valid attempt instead of an invalid one. Oh, and think of how happy she will be, if she finds she can grow her current and true marriage into the best version that it always could have been, and yet never had been! (I have seen this happen, too…👍)

I myself had a very close friend who could have become my soul mate. He does understand me in ways my husband never will. To have left my faithful husband for him would have been a gross betrayal of my husband but also a disservice to myself. Tell her to stop and turn back, before it is too late. Go the way of integrity. Live a life that can be lived out in the open. It is worth the trouble.

Give her the support of recognizing how hard this is. Give her the support of doing more listening than talking. Do not, however, allow her to sell you her self-delusion and call that support. That is BS. (bad support…)
What a great post 👍

Lots of good advice which i will certainly pass on. Lots to think about. Thanks for spending the time to write that.
 
PS Should she tell her spouse about this current inordinate attachment?

If she wants to work on her current marriage without disclosing to her husband how emotionally attached she had been becoming to someone else, that could be supported, provided she puts some distance in between herself and that near occasion of more serious infidelity. There is a reason that the good Lord doesn’t make us our spouse’s mind readers. Alas, the infidelities in thought of others we hear about are far harder to forget than the infidelities of mind that we commit in our own heads. An infidelity of thought is probably best left unspoken, since once spoken it cannot be taken back. It is better to hope that in a more sane moment, we’ll realize we did not mean it. It does need to be repented of, however, and it needs to be rejected as a future chosen action. It is not innocent, but an offense against our marriage vows.

She promised to love her husband and to forsake all others. She needs to do that.
Thanks. I dont think she should tell her husband. Not about whats been going on. They are in the process of going down the divorce route though but she has not mentioned adultery as of yet to him.

Problem is that she has spent quite a few years trying to regain her marriage, the love, etc etc. She has tried very hard indeed! Years of trying!

There is only so much that one can do. Yes, vows are meant to be kept but it happens that sometimes one realises that the marriage was a very big mistake indeed!

Pray is my answer at the moment and of course passing on the posts here to her to ponder over.

God bless you all
 
Thanks. I dont think she should tell her husband. Not about whats been going on. They are in the process of going down the divorce route though but she has not mentioned adultery as of yet to him.

Problem is that she has spent quite a few years trying to regain her marriage, the love, etc etc. She has tried very hard indeed! Years of trying!

There is only so much that one can do. Yes, vows are meant to be kept but it happens that sometimes one realises that the marriage was a very big mistake indeed!

Pray is my answer at the moment and of course passing on the posts here to her to ponder over.

God bless you all
Trying to get my sister to logon to this forum. Told her about the great help available 👍
 
Advice please people as you all seem quite knowledgeable:

My sister has suggested living a chaste life! Now, what happens if she divorces, her ‘friend’ also divorces and they then move in together and lead a chaste life!! Would that still stop her from receiving Holy Communion?

Ok, i know there is a very slim chance of them staying chaste but just wanted to know if the above is possible?

Obviously if they married she could not have Holy Communion.
 
Advice please people as you all seem quite knowledgeable:

My sister has suggested living a chaste life! Now, what happens if she divorces, her ‘friend’ also divorces and they then move in together and lead a chaste life!! Would that still stop her from receiving Holy Communion?

Ok, i know there is a very slim chance of them staying chaste but just wanted to know if the above is possible?

Obviously if they married she could not have Holy Communion.
They move in together? Why would two chaste opposite-sex friends move in together?

She’s living in a dream world. Chaste male-female friends do not fantasize about moving in together. The romantic self-deception needs to stop.

She and her friend have an obligation to stay with their spouses and be spouses unless they cannot live in peace or safety with their spouses. They don’t have to be content. They have to be safe, able to live in peace, and free of the betrayal of infidelity by their spouses. If they have that, they need to stick in there and be spouses to their spouses, rather than letting the substance of their hearts wander to lavish affection that belongs to their spouse on someone else.

They say, no doubt, that the affection is dead. If it is dead, then they will be more content with nothing. If she insists that she cannot live with her husband, fine. Let her live with nothing, and complete the separation with no consolation from an emotional affair. Then, when she’s worked out the situation with her marriage, then she’ll know what she has room to do. None of this trying to nibble off a little sin and hoping there isn’t enough poison in it to harm her. That is foolish and it lacks integrity.

I mean: COME ON! Imagine YOUR wife doing this to YOU! It is not innocent! It is a betrayal! It is emotional infidelity! Anybody who puts himself in the place of the spouse who is in such a marriage and remaining faithful to the marriage can see this!!

That is the long answer. The short answer is that to move in together would be a scandal and an invitation to adultery at best, and the outcome is very unlikely to stop at the “best case” scenario. No sane priest in the world would say it is OK, not unless he had one foot out the door of his own priesthood with his own “innocent emotional friendship.”
 
What i am saying is that my sister is on her way to divorce from her husband. So his her ‘Friend’. They have both agreed to be chaste.

Now, if they then, after the divorces are final, move in together and remain chaste, can she still receive Holy Communion? They wont get married. Just live together but live a chaste life.

I do know of some people who live together in a chaste life. This is possible with pray and determination.

Could she still receive Holy Communion if the above is carried out?
 
You are too involved in your sisters personal life.

If SHE was interested in any of the answers to what you want to know, she should make an appointment with her parish priest and not have you on here asking internet strangers what we think. No one believes your sister living chastely is going to happen for very long. Why would anyone here commit to answering whether she can receive communion or not? The whole thing is ridiculous.

I am out.
 
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