Advice on Sister who is a Narcissist/Psychopath

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Better just tell him what she has done to you? So instead of warning, just tell your history.

It really sucks that such people have a good life and get relationships and such, and yourself have depression because what they done to you.
 
Especially since this isn’t in the ceremony.

I recommend talking to the pastor of the couple if you have concerns:

Can. 1069 All the faithful are obliged to reveal any impediments they know about to the pastor or local ordinary before the celebration of the marriage.
Sometimes I love CAF!

Well done, 1KE. Very well done indeed.

:bowdown:

So, not only are we permitted to inform someone of an impediment, but we obliged - thus making it a sin of omission to keep this information to oneself. A serious psychiatric disorder is certainly an impediment to a marriage (if it is not disclosed).

I also emphasize the important discovery from canon law that the person to inform is not either of the couple, or one’s own pastor, but the pastor who will perform the ceremony.

That applies when the courtship has become an impending wedding.

It** may be**, in this case, that the OP can stay out of it until it progresses to that. She is managing it very well so far, and will be able to work that one out too.

 
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ndkos:
Hello,

My sister is a horribly abusive person to me. Without going into detail, she attacked me so viciously that I dropped out of college years ago and I never have been the same. I have been depressed for almost a decade now.

Anyway, she is in a relationship with a boy who seems like a nice Catholic guy. How do I best warn this guy without coming across like a crazy person? (I am depressed, not crazy.)

I do not think my sister is capable of love. I think she may be a true psychopath. I do not want him to marry her and then find out my sister’s true colors.

Thank you for your advice.
It sounds to me like you have a real struggle with depression here. There are ways to find out if it could be your depression causing this pain your going through right now, heres a place to find out and look towards help ourmindandbody.com/7-signs-of-depression-in-women/
 
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ndkos:
No interest in him. Never met him, don’t know at all what he looks like.
I agree with the others that advise to stay out of this situation, especially given this fact that you stated. I can almost guarantee that your sister has already “forewarned” him of you and any attempt to communicate with him is not going to bring about the desired result that you want.

Please take a step back and contemplate your real motives. You may have convinced yourself that you are trying to act out of charity for this boyfriend, but the fact that you have never even met him seems to suggest to me that possibly the real motives are:

*Revenge on your sister. You feel that she “took” something from you (i.e., your college) and now you really want to “take” something from her (i.e., her relationship). On this same note, you don’t feel that your sister deserves love after what she put you through, and therefore, you are going to try to make sure she gets exactly what she deserves.

*You really do assume that this guy will stay with your sister and you are secretly hoping that he will end up miserable in the long run with her and your trump card will be “I told you so but you wouldn’t listen”.

You may not even be aware of these subconscious motives and they may or may not even exist, but it’s worth some of your time, to really focus on what you hope to accomplish if you proceed because I see NOTHING good coming from it.

The best “revenge” you can get on your sister and family is to live your life joyfully, putting one foot in front of the other each day and trudging on. Don’t let her or them destroy you. Only you can allow them to steal your joy. Work your hardest to create healthy, loving relationships with others and CHOOSE TO BE HAPPY. You will never be truly happy if you are trying to steal it from others. Regarding your sister and her relationship, you just have to let it go. He may find out himself how she is or he may not. They may have a perfectly happy relationship and a perfectly happy marriage. People can change or she may do a good job covering up, but that’s none of your business. Just live your own life. You’ll never be happy until you do.

P.S. I speak ALL these things from experience with a highly dysfunctional family. Trust me!
 
All you can do is forgive her and the family, and not associate with them.
You’re a grown-up now.
People can handle their own relationships. If she bot in the middle of yours, you’d be furious, and rightly so.

Let it go. Let her go.
Get therapy for the anger.
I say this in all charity. This will kill your spirit forever. Worse than whatever they did to you.
Lay it all out for the priest, and follow his instructions to the letter.
God bless.
:clapping:
 
Sometimes I love CAF!

Well done, 1KE. Very well done indeed.

:bowdown:

So, not only are we permitted to inform someone of an impediment, but we obliged - thus making it a sin of omission to keep this information to oneself. A serious psychiatric disorder is certainly an impediment to a marriage (if it is not disclosed).

I also emphasize the important discovery from canon law that the person to inform is not either of the couple, or one’s own pastor, but the pastor who will perform the ceremony.

That applies when the courtship has become an impending wedding.

It** may be**, in this case, that the OP can stay out of it until it progresses to that. She is managing it very well so far, and will be able to work that one out too.

My question is, though, how can the OP prove her assertions regarding her sister’s mental health? She is not a trained psychiatrist. The priest/pastor is not a trained psychiatrist. If the sister is as manipulative, narcissistic, psychopathic as the OP asserts, she would be able to easily explain away the OP’s allegations and make the OP appear to be the psychopathic, manipulative one. Will this not further ostracize the OP from the family?🤷
 
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ndkos:
Hello,

My sister is a horribly abusive person to me. …

…she is in a relationship with a boy who seems like a nice Catholic guy. How do I best warn this guy without coming across like a crazy person? …

I do not think my sister is capable of love. I think she may be a true psychopath. I do not want him to marry her and then find out my sister’s true colors.

Thank you for your advice.
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ndkos:
I know some people are chameleons who have charm and charisma on the surface and fake all the empathy and whatever else. Then when the other person commits to them, they can drop all the loving pretenses.

You are probably right that I have only one chance…
You’re right, you probably have just one chance. You could make it brief and clear and not forceful.

Also you are right about Narcissists - they are all charm and charisma and fake empathy then as soon as they have your commitment, yes, they suddenly and completely drop all the loving pretenses. Yes, Edmundus knows, and I also experienced this in my first long marriage, now annulled. If one has not lived with a Narcissist, it does sound a little crazy what you say. To others, Narcissists seem kind of super-normal, even kind of a star. (Its easy to be “wonderful” when you don’t have a conscience!) To everyone they are wonderful - because everyone else, including strangers, are “Primary Narcissist Supply” so the Narcissist is always courting and pleasing them, and you, the spouse or close family member, are “Secondary Supply”, and you don’t matter, except as part of their story. Its crazy and if you haven’t lived it, its easier to side with the abuser than the victim. To the unschooled, the Narcissist’s family-member-victim is suspect for being crazy or unforgiving. Right? 🤷 It’s not easy to educate people and the fact is, most people would rather judge things for how they see them and not be educated that they are seeing it wrong anyway.

Frankly people should get educated on the Narcissists next door, those people beside us living in an alternate reality, because there are many. Our culture breeds and celebrates them.

As far as your OP question, I think it is good of you to look out for the fiance. But be careful, because your sister could get vindictive if she finds out, and make life harder for you. You can be sure she has already told her fiance (with your family’s back-up on this!) that you are a totally crazy, vindictive, ABUSIVE person (because Narcissists say others have their traits). Also Narcissists always tell others what they should think of others. And its amazing how many people think to themselves, “Oh, okay, that’s what I am supposed to think of ___”. Partly because the Narcissistic tells others what they should think so charmingly, so *co-conspiringly *- like they are doing the listener a favor. The Narcissist takes control over what people around them think - and they tell them what to think! They are practiced at it! (At the end of my first marraige, my ex said, “I can make anybody think anything I want them to think.”) That’s their talent. They are driven at creating their own reputation so they are sure to get there first. So - anyone you meet in her circle has already heard a bunch of lies about you. Certainly her fiance has!

So that’s what you face. Crazy sister [brother? sister?] calling, saying her [his?] sister is crazy! Of course! That’s what crazy people, do, right? So if you can possibly see the fiance in person, that is much better. You can see in his eyes how he is taking what you are saying. Make it brief - he can always ask for more info. Which I would be careful about giving until you are sure you can trust him not to share it. You can just say, “I am sure you have heard I am crazy, but I want you to know I blame it on my sister. She is not what she seems. She is a Narcissist. You should know about that before you marry her, and if you don’t know what that is you should learn. This is the truth and if you tell her I told you she will put me through more hell for it. I am telling you now, just this once, so you know. Do with it what you will.”

As to your mental health issues, it sounds like there are valid circumstantial reasons! Jesus heals heart. Seek his healing. He wants to make you whole.

I also want to say that people who haven’t had to forgive big, big betrayals (like a close abusive family member) don’t realize how big-forgiving takes time. For everything there is a season. I read a book once, “Don’t Forgive Too Soon” that made a lot of sense. The premise is that if you forgive too soon, sometimes its not true forgiveness that you offer. You have to see and accept the offense and the pain it caused you before you can truly forgive it. In other words, you need to know what you are forgiving so you in essence give your full and true “consent” to forgiveness. And when badly hurt, the author said, before you can forgive, you need to go through some stages to get to acceptance, particularly, those stages you go through to accept a death. Anger, depression, bargaining, etc. I forgot what the stages are but those are some of them. At any rate, it made sense to me.

So there should be the desire to forgive, and if it hurts so bad you cannot have that, you can desire to have the desire to forgive, and ask God for the grace for that. With big things, we need God’s help to forgive.

But that is assuming that’s an issue for you! To me, it seemed like you were just telling the facts: Your sister was an abusive Narcissist and messed you up. She might marry an innocent who is about to get messed up, too. (Narcissist don’t change their stripes. Its EXTREMELY rare).
 
Is it right for us to proceed here, from the OP, and take is as a given that the sister is indeed a narcissist and a psychopath? The OP has ceased to contribute to this post for quite some time. Anyways, just asking.
 
Is it right for us to proceed here, from the OP, and take is as a given that the sister is indeed a narcissist and a psychopath? The OP has ceased to contribute to this post for quite some time. Anyways, just asking.
4 days? I think its just four days, maybe i am wrong… Anyway I don’t check in daily…
 
Eliza, your former post is on the mark, I was just asking. I’m not real fond of narcissits to say the least, and I can smell them a mile away and keep them at a distance. They are pretty hard critters to love. I will say that much! 🙂

Narcissists are the human equivalent of a chameleon. Would that be a fair analogy?
 
Is it right for us to proceed here, from the OP, and take is as a given that the sister is indeed a narcissist and a psychopath? The OP has ceased to contribute to this post for quite some time. Anyways, just asking.
What is left to “proceed” with?

When a poster asks a question we take their information on trust, unless there are contrary indications. It’s not our place to verify such information.

The OP has been in psychiatric treatment for 10 years, so will be familiar with, even an amateur expert, on the medical conditions of narcissism and psychopathy. She is also closest to this situation. So, we can take it on trust that her sister is a narcissist/psychopath as stated, and advise accordingly. If the OP’s base information is incorrect then that’s their problem - not ours.

1KE has found the canon law which applies in this situation.

Any debate is over as far as I’m concerned, but I thank Eliza for contributing her very valuable personal story and insights.

The OP may wish to return for some advice on when and how to act from here, but she also has enough information to make that decision herself.
…To me, it seemed like you were just telling the facts: Your sister was an abusive Narcissist and messed you up. She might marry an innocent who is about to get messed up, too. (Narcissist don’t change their stripes. Its EXTREMELY rare).
That’s how I took it too, and have answered accordingly.

This may be important for the young man’s life. The consequences for himself and any children would be horrendous, and also inexorable if the marriage were to proceed.
 
… The OP may wish to return for some advice on when and how to act from here, but she also has enough information to make that decision herself.
The OP has already made her plan and informed us of it (see post 42), and it seems like a sound plan.

That plan was posted before we found the relevant canon law which would oblige nkdkos to inform the pastor who may officiate at any wedding* - which is likely some way off. I note that obligation to inform the pastor is a minimum and mandatory obligation. It does not hinder nkdos from informing the young man now, however, if that is unsuccesful and wedding plans go ahead, then she is still obliged to inform the pastor.

Another example: If I knew that my brother had been previously married and divorced, and did not have an annulment, and was about to marry a Catholic woman then I would be obliged to inform the pastor before the wedding*. It may, or may not be, prudent to inform the woman earlier.
  • These may seem far-fetched scenarios, but they actually happen. No-one consciously marries a narcissist, rather they marry someone who appears to be all they were looking for (because the narcissist perceives what the victim is looking for, and conforms themself to it). No Catholic woman would consciously marry a man who was divorced without an annulment, but it may have been a brief period in his life which he has hidden from her. There may well be fault on the part of the victim - as there was in my case - but that does not mean they deserve to be punished with an impossible marriage. It also does not absolve others of their obligation to, at the very least, inform the pastor of a known impediment.
Thanks again, 1KE!
 
If the questions of whether ndkos should intervene are over (as they should be), then perhaps we can return to the actual question of how to?

Eliza’s response was superb, and mentioned stuff which I never would have thought of - that the narcissist has already “poisoned the well”, ie. told the boyfriend that she (the narcissist) is the sane one, and the OP the crazy one. On that topic, I remember that my wife, throughout our marriage, conveyed to others that I was a problem and that she needed help. When she picked her next man she was able to convey, subtly, the impression of a being an unfulfilled woman with a neglectful husband and a marriage in trouble. He (the dupe) saw himself as the Knight in Shining Armour rescuing her, and even performing a service to myself and our children! :rotfl: (I’ve heard that he is quite bitter about the way she eventually treated him 👍:D)

Just as she had become a pious Catholic for me, to jettison it once she got me to the altar, she became a gutsy, outdoorsy, down-to-earth gal for him! I remember with bitterness the walks she did with him and my children, while I was at work. (“just friends” of course). But I had previously attempted to get her to do those same walks with myself and the children - and she just didn’t want to and opposed (sic) it. We spent most of our weekends sitting around the house, watching TV - by her choice.

All very interesting stuff, Eliza, which I trust the OP finds helpful, and has added to discussion.
 
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ndkos:
Someone please help me, I am falling apart!!

I am desperate…I am begging!
May our compassionate Lord Jesus Christ and His Holy Blessed Mother wrap their arms around you and comfort you!

I place you in the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of His Blessed Mother.

May the Peace of Jesus reign in you!!!
 
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ndkos:
Someone please help me, I am falling apart!!

I am desperate…I am begging!
This trial will pass. Just take it one day at a time.

Thanks for being part of CAF, and for this thread which was very worthwhile.

Praying for you.

~ Edmundus
 
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ndkos:
I am thinking of killing myself.

Started another thread in the Prayer Intentions forum on that.

It is too difficult!!
Dear ndkos,

You are needed in the Body of Christ here on earth!

Prayers for you!

Nothing is too difficult for the Lord.
 
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ndkos:
I am thinking of killing myself.

Started another thread in the Prayer Intentions forum on that.

It is too difficult!!
Please don’t. Praying for you.
 
I am praying for you, ndkos.

You are an intelligent, caring person. I observed that in this thread.

If you are able to, please pray for my daughter. She is a similar age to you and is in difficulty. She is currently visiting me and I am hoping and praying that she will decide to stay here, where she will also have the company of her brother and sister. (Our family has had its troubles, but fortunately the children have always been there each other. I can’t imagine what it must be like to be estranged from one’s own siblings - but I know it happens 😦 )
 
Good God. That sounds murderously dreadful.

You are in my prayers. Most definitely.

Please do not kill yourself. Your sister sounds perfectly evil. But get some perspective. As bad as she is, and as evil as what she is doing is, children get raped. Parents kill their children, drowning them in their tubs or trying to flush them down toilets, or exposing them without a care. And there are evils just as bad and worse.

Don’t waste your life on one evil among many. Pray instead, for Our Lord to accomplish His will, and quickly!
 
OurLadysServant posted this on a different thread- maybe it will help you:

Private revelation
THE BRIEF OR BLESSING OF SAINT ANTHONY

A case of diabolical obsession, that yielded to the power of St Anthony of Padua, was recorded in Portugal during the reign of King Denis.

Under the guise of a heavenly visitant, the devil frequently appeared to a woman of Lisbon and urged her to throw herself into the river Tagus in order to obtain the remission of her sins and eternal happiness.

The tormented woman at length decided to drown herself. Passing a Franciscan chapel on her way to the river, she entered, and kneeling before the altar of St. Anthony, implored the Saint to help her save her soul. Overcome by fatigue, she fell asleep.

During her slumber St Anthony appeared to her, revealed the deceit of the “father of lies” and released her from the obsession. On awaking, the woman found a letter which the Saint had given her during the vision. It contained the prayer now known as the “Brief of St Anthony.” The original of Saint Anthonys Brief was preserved with the crown jewels by the King of Portugal. Pope Sixtus V caused the efficacious lines to be inscribed on an obelisk, which he had erected in the quadrangle in front of Saint Peter’s.

The Church once incorporated this prayer against the powers of evil in its ritual for an exorcism.

SAINT ANTHONY’S BRIEF

Behold the Cross of the Lord!
Fly, ye powers of darkness!
The Lion of the tribe of Juda,
the root of David, has conquered.
Alleluia!

It is a devout practice to wear this blessing known as Saint Anthonys Brief on one’s person, or to put it up in the home, and often repeat it.

Passion of Christ comfort me! Comfort me for the day is long and weary, comfort me as I fight my up the path of life safe to the haven of Thy Sacred Heart. Comfort me in pain and sorrow and tribulation, comfort me when temptation rages around me and every hope seems lost. And when that last dread hour has sounded and my eyes are closing on this world of sin, Passion of Christ! comfort me then, and lead me gently to Thy Wounded Feet above. Amen.

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