Advice Please - Wife Going Overboard

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I don’t know if anyone else has said this or not, I haven’t read every single comment.

Bottom line, marriage is supposed to be two people working TOGETHER to make a life that is fulfilling to each of them. To work to take care of their children and do what they feel is right.

I don’t see much team work going on in this marriage. She’s going one way and he’s trying to stay put at a certain point.

I think counseling would be good for them. They need to get back to working together for the good of the entire family. I would suggest you go and see your priest and let him know what’s going on. Listen to him. Time to take your wife out to dinner and ask questions and really listen to what she has to say.

I wish you both all good things.
 
The one thing, though, that doesn’t make sense is the negative attitude of the wife towards drinking alcohol. Traditional Catholics do not, as far as I have experienced, have any aversion to drinking alcohol at all. After all, they aren’t Amish (even though some may dress a bit like them).
Even many Amish people engage in moderate drinking, though not all. 🙂
I am concerned that your wife sees her daughters as only ever being mothers or nuns. Does she not see college for them? An option of a career? …There is certainly nothing wrong with a young lady having an education. Or having a job/career. These are not against Catholic teaching, in any way.
You will probably appreciate this.
A vocation is what you are called to do, not what Mom told you that you have to do.
Amen.
“I love you and want you to be holy AND happy. You don’t need to compare yourself to other moms. I think you’re amazing and have done a great job. Please stop comparing our family to others. You need to enjoy the fruits of the good work you’ve done!”
Best part of the letter, imo. Well done, Delta. 🙂
Something we all need to remember is that we hear about everyone’s highlight reel, and we live with our own blooper reel. 😛
Yep, in 12-step groups we say, “Don’t compare your INSIDES with someone else’s OUTSIDES.”
👍
 
I don’t know if anyone else has said this or not, I haven’t read every single comment.

Bottom line, marriage is supposed to be two people working TOGETHER to make a life that is fulfilling to each of them. To work to take care of their children and do what they feel is right.

I don’t see much team work going on in this marriage. She’s going one way and he’s trying to stay put at a certain point.

I think counseling would be good for them. They need to get back to working together for the good of the entire family. I would suggest you go and see your priest and let him know what’s going on. Listen to him. Time to take your wife out to dinner and ask questions and really listen to what she has to say.

I wish you both all good things.
I was thinking the same thing. His letter had him giving in 10% and her giving in 90% without any specific addressing of her concerns - not very selfless. And it was so hard for him to go this far he had to put it in writing. Moreover, most of the things he demands are his personal preferences without regard to any of her reasonable desires. Frankly, I’m surprised they’re still together.
 
I was thinking the same thing. His letter had him giving in 10% and her giving in 90% without any specific addressing of her concerns - not very selfless. And it was so hard for him to go this far he had to put it in writing. Moreover, most of the things he demands are his personal preferences without regard to any of her reasonable desires. Frankly, I’m surprised they’re still together.
I don’t see that at all. One spouse cannot approach the other and say “here are 20 drastic changes I’d like to make to our already healthy family life” and expect half of them to be accepted in the name of compromise.

Some people do better getting a letter, thinking about it a while, then coming back to the table with their thoughts for a discussion. Some people express temselves better in writing. I don’t think that’s strange at all.

The OP was being asked to accept some pretty wacky lifestyle changes, ones that his wife made on her own after being influenced by some radical friends. I don’t think he’s obligated to compromise at all, but he did to the extent that he thought was healthy because he clearly loves his wife.
 
I don’t see that at all. One spouse cannot approach the other and say “here are 20 drastic changes I’d like to make to our already healthy family life” and expect half of them to be accepted in the name of compromise.

Some people do better getting a letter, thinking about it a while, then coming back to the table with their thoughts for a discussion. Some people express temselves better in writing. I don’t think that’s strange at all.

The OP was being asked to accept some pretty wacky lifestyle changes, ones that his wife made on her own after being influenced by some radical friends. I don’t think he’s obligated to compromise at all, but he did to the extent that he thought was healthy because he clearly loves his wife.
👍
 
I don’t see that at all. One spouse cannot approach the other and say “here are 20 drastic changes I’d like to make to our already healthy family life” and expect half of them to be accepted in the name of compromise.

Some people do better getting a letter, thinking about it a while, then coming back to the table with their thoughts for a discussion. Some people express temselves better in writing. I don’t think that’s strange at all.

The OP was being asked to accept some pretty wacky lifestyle changes, ones that his wife made on her own after being influenced by some radical friends. I don’t think he’s obligated to compromise at all, but he did to the extent that he thought was healthy because he clearly loves his wife.
So why did he never bring the issue to the priest??? - especially the priest of the EF Mass where the wife was attending. Since the whole issue seems to revolve around Catholic devotion and observance, a discussion with the priest could have been very helpful and enlightening. Why did he want it the way he wants it and just throw her a bone by agreeing to attend the EF Mass once a month? No, there’s clearly more to this whole issue than meets the eye.
 
I strongly suggest that everyone resist the temptation to get into a discussion of the principle of the husband as head of the family. There have been many discussions of this already and it has little to do with the problem the OP is dealing with. It was only mentioned because it is presumably something his wife believes.

Please let’s focus on helping the OP.
Not sure why you brought it up then.
 
So why did he never bring the issue to the priest??? - especially the priest of the EF Mass where the wife was attending. Since the whole issue seems to revolve around Catholic devotion and observance, a discussion with the priest could have been very helpful and enlightening. Why did he want it the way he wants it and just throw her a bone by agreeing to attend the EF Mass once a month? No, there’s clearly more to this whole issue than meets the eye.
He never said he refused to talk to a priest, but maybe he wanted to handle it between he and his wife. He seems to be a devout Catholic, so it’s not as though he’s espousing anything contrary to the faith. A lot of what the wife wants seems to be unrelated to Catholic practice and more in line with a certain type of “lifestyle” she wants. Is there anything wrong with agreeing to take the kids to Latin Mass once a month but going to their local parish the other Sundays? He explained his reasoning and said he’d be happy to go to a late Mass if his wife wanted to go to both every week. I see no problem.
 
I was thinking the same thing. His letter had him giving in 10% and her giving in 90% without any specific addressing of her concerns - not very selfless. And it was so hard for him to go this far he had to put it in writing. Moreover, most of the things he demands are his personal preferences without regard to any of her reasonable desires. Frankly, I’m surprised they’re still together.
He is the head of the family. That is what his wife thinks too. It is his job to make decisions for the good of the family. That is what he did.
 
I’m sort of wondering if there might have been some alcoholism on your wife’s side of the family. If so that may have some impact. I speak from my own experience – I tend to get extreme on a lot of things & both my parents were alcoholics.

When I got a calling to Carmel (OCDS) 25 years ago, my Catholic husband (I’m a convert) got scared bec he knew I had gotten a calling to a more religious life over the previous months, and he was afraid he would lose me. However, one of the requirements to entering OCDS was permission of one’s spouse, which delayed my entering for several more months. I’m a pre-women’s movement woman and we were married in 1969, so I’ve always considered hubby head of the family and the final decision-maker – tho I do put up pretty big arguing-begging-screaming tactics now and then to get my way. The hard thing in convincing hubby to give permission to enter Carmel was my trying to act like a Carmelite – which precluded ranting, raving and screaming. Prayer really helps a lot, tho bec God gave people free will, it’s also difficult. St. Monica wept and prayed intensely for many years over her son St. Augustine.

The devil often uses such tactics when he cannot corrupt souls by the usual corruption – just make them go way beyond the good direction they are taking…into something unhealthy spiritually.

I know with my various extremes that have been unhealthy spiritually, they tend to wear off with time.

If nothing else works, just turn to prayer and time…which will heal all things.

St. Teresa of Jesus taught us with:
Let nothing disturb you,
Let nothing frighten you,
All things are passing away:
God never changes.
Patience obtains all things
Whoever has God lacks nothing;
God alone suffices.
BTW, I’m basically against Latin Masses and even Latin used for more than 5% of the Mass for several reasons, unlike hubby who fondly remembers the Latin Mass from his childhood and early adulthood:

  1. *]I studied Latin in HS, and we read and translated Ceasar’s Bello Gallico and other military imperialist exploits of Ceasar; so to me Latin is a language of imperialism, domination, and bloodshed, including nailing people to crosses.
    *]Secondly and more importantly Catholics really don’t understand what Prostestants think of Catholicism. I was taught to hate Catholics as a kid. The biggy is Catholicism being “ritualistic,” more concerned about not understanding the Gospels and Christianity (e.g., by using Latin) than understanding it, and basically missing the point of Christianity. This, of course, is untrue, but why fuel their fire???
    *]Finally, I like to understand what people are saying (perhaps bec I was reared a Protestant and meaning is more or as important as ritual), and I really don’t remember my HS Latin from 52 years ago, and I’m really too busy to relearn it.

    RE head-scarves, I’m not against that, except as you say it sticks out, and Catholics being conformists (another thing my mom criticized about Catholics), this would be embarrasing to many. However, my husband is from India and in the villages Catholic women have always worn and are still wearing head-scarves (usually the end of their sari or the dupatta scarves of churidar outfits) at Mass – so it would be weird not to cover the head; while in the big cities, like Chennai, they are mostly giving that up (sort of like 45 years ago in the U.S.).

    So, anyway I cover my head during Mass when in rural India. I brought a black chiffon dupatta back with me from India last time we visited, and wear it at Mass during our yearly Carmelite retreats, where about one-sixth of the female members wear veils or head-scarves, so it isn’t so weird.

    The important thing is (I read this somewhere), one doesn’t need to be on their knees (I have knee problems, so that’s out for me now) or cover their head to pray, but their mind should be on its knees 🙂

  1. At the risk of derailing, I have to respond to your assertions about Latin.
    1. The Latin the Church uses is not the same version you learned (though it can help make learning it easier) in High School. Thus, it has never been associated with the wrongdoings of Pagan Rome. It is unique to the Catholic Church. Hence the full name Eccesiastical Latin.
    2. Have the Protestants really warmed up to us since the move to the vernacular? My experience as a convert to the Faith says no. So why try to please people who say you’re going to Hell anyway? Should we stop any and all devotion to the Saints and to Our Lady as well? that’s a biggie for them too, after all.
    3. One need not know Latin to understand the Latin Mass. If one learns the the meaning behind the symbolism, there is much to ponder. Padre Pio once said that you don’t need a missal to pray the Mass. Guess which Mass he was talking about? Hint: Not the Mass of Paul VI. It wasn’t promulgated until after he died.
    Sorry if I seem to be jumping down your throat, but I had to make the clarifications for lurkers out there.

    God bless. 🙂
 
At the risk of derailing, I have to respond to your assertions about Latin.
  1. The Latin the Church uses is not the same version you learned (though it can help make learning it easier) in High School. Thus, it has never been associated with the wrongdoings of Pagan Rome. It is unique to the Catholic Church. Hence the full name Eccesiastical Latin.
  2. Have the Protestants really warmed up to us since the move to the vernacular? My experience as a convert to the Faith says no. So why try to please people who say you’re going to Hell anyway? Should we stop any and all devotion to the Saints and to Our Lady as well? that’s a biggie for them too, after all.
  3. One need not know Latin to understand the Latin Mass. If one learns the the meaning behind the symbolism, there is much to ponder. Padre Pio once said that you don’t need a missal to pray the Mass. Guess which Mass he was talking about? Hint: Not the Mass of Paul VI. It wasn’t promulgated until after he died.
Sorry if I seem to be jumping down your throat, but I had to make the clarifications for lurkers out there.

God bless. 🙂
I agree but I also want to discuss #1.
The poster stated that to them that latin was a symbol of imerialism and some other things. It would be a good idea to note that the confection of the Eucharist was said in latin more than any emperor’s decrees. Not only that but thousands of saints have only known beauty in the Mass said in Latin. I thought it was against forum rules to disparrige one form over another perhaps that only applies one direction.
 
So why did he never bring the issue to the priest??? - especially the priest of the EF Mass where the wife was attending. Since the whole issue seems to revolve around Catholic devotion and observance, a discussion with the priest could have been very helpful and enlightening. Why did he want it the way he wants it and just throw her a bone by agreeing to attend the EF Mass once a month? No, there’s clearly more to this whole issue than meets the eye.
Could be that he only wrote the original post Thursday afternoon, and now it is Saturday morning. Not a lot of time to set up and attend a meeting with a priest.

Could be that he wanted to do something NOW. Not wait until the priest had an opening in his schedule.

Could be that he doesn’t like the priest very much or doesn’t think talking to him will help, so he blew off the idea. (Better to blow off the idea, than to post something negative about the priest.)

Since the whole issue isn’t Catholic devotion and observance, but their relationship going to the priest, may not be the best person to go to. They may need to talk it out between the two of them, first.

The problem we (as a group) are having, is that we are seeing this from two different places.

There are some here, that are quietly cheering the wife for making these changes. They are thrilled that the wife wants to attend the EF exclusively. They do, so what is the problem? They are happy that she wants to wear a veil. Again, they do, or their wife does, so that is a good thing. More power to her. And they don’t understand how anyone could have a problem with what she is doing.

Then there are those that see this not as someone moving toward being more devout, but as someone that is unilaterally making extreme changes to her family’s life. Someone that is trying to force personal devotions on another. Someone that wants to live on the Little House on the Prairie set.

Regardless of which group you are part of, everyone should realize that simply making these changes without consulting their spouse would cause problems. If I want my family to fast every Friday, I need to talk to them about it. I shouldn’t just stop making dinner and expect them to go along.
 
I agree but I also want to discuss #1.
The poster stated that to them that latin was a symbol of imerialism and some other things. It would be a good idea to note that the confection of the Eucharist was said in latin more than any emperor’s decrees. Not only that but thousands of saints have only known beauty in the Mass said in Latin. I thought it was against forum rules to disparrige one form over another perhaps that only applies one direction.
Lynnvinc was referring it to her study of Latin in high school, in an explanation of why she does not prefer Latin in the Mass.

I believe we’re allowed to explain our own personal opinions, as long as we don’t try to claim the Church has no right to allow Latin/vernacular, CITH/COTT, or whatever the current argument is.
 
I agree but I also want to discuss #1.
The poster stated that to them that latin was a symbol of imerialism and some other things. It would be a good idea to note that the confection of the Eucharist was said in latin more than any emperor’s decrees. Not only that but thousands of saints have only known beauty in the Mass said in Latin. I thought it was against forum rules to disparrige one form over another perhaps that only applies one direction.
Hey, now. Let’s not go down this road right now. We don’t need a fight over Latin itself.
Let’s focus on helping the OP for now.
 
Hi Julianne,
Sorry I did not answer sooner. So many wonderful replies to read!

The kids are okay. My oldest rolls her eyes at the proposed wardrobe changes but so far I have put my foot down. My wife has a lot of opinions and ideas, but she is not a mean person. She’s not going to hold the kids down and dress them in frocks. She has some guilt about her “failings” up until the last year or so, and says things like, “If i had started this sooner, they wouldn’t reject it.” I try to reassure her that she’s always been a good mom and that our kids have always been very fortunate, but she is always pointing to how pious and obedient Susie’s kids are. And I’ve told her that a) she has no idea what goes on behind closed doors - she only sees what Susie wants her to see and b) we are not raising little Catholic parrots who can’t think for themselves. They are overall WONDERFUL kids and I appreciate their spunk and quirks. I don’t want them to act like nuns and monks - they’re children.

The three little ones barely notice a change, except for that all the kids hate going to the Latin Mass. They find it hard to sit still and boring. I try to encourage them to engage but it’s hard for them and they grumble and whine when we go. And obviously the oldest three so not want to leave school (which I am not going to let happen.)

Last night I gave my wife this letter:

Dear J,
Over the past 18 months I have noticed so many changes in you and what you want for our family. Some make me happy, some are neutral, and some make me very sad and disappointed. As your husband and the children’s father, I want to be a good leader for this family, but I need you to take a step back and allow that. We have always been happy in our family life (at least I have), and to be honest I do not see the need for radical changes from what we were doing two or three years ago. You know the kids are thriving in school and happy. You have always been a great mom and wife and our faith has always been a huge part of our lives even before your changes started.

Now, I have to decide what to do. I am not happy. I long for the “Old J” and our old life. I want to discuss your new ideas with you, but I need you to hear me when I say I am not trying to thwart your spiritual life. I just want balance for our family. Therefore…
  1. We can attend the Latin Mass once a month as a family. Otherwise we need to go to St. Jude’s. That’s our parish and that’s where the kids go to school. They enjoy going which is very important - they see their school friends, know the priests, and it feels like home. Once a month we can go to the Latin Mass together, but I need you not to make disparaging comments about our home parish or regular Mass to the kids or to me. Both are equal in validity. I am happy to attend the 11:30 Mass as a family so that you can also make the 9:30 Latin Mass by yourself if you’d like to attend both. The kids, though, will not be made to attend both.
  2. There will be no homeschooling. I don’t doubt your intelligence or ability, but I am adamant that they stay in school where they are thriving.
  3. You are free to wear whatever religious items you wish. Please do not force them on me or the kids. It’s a personal preference, not a matter of salvation.
  4. Your Mass hair covering is fine, but please leave it for Mass or prayer only.
  5. Please consider taking out some of your old clothing and re-evaluating whether or not it can still be worn. You are a beautiful woman with a beautiful figure, and I think you looked amazing in your old clothes.
  6. If you want, we can sign up for Saturday adoration as a family twice a month.
  7. I love you and want you to be holy AND happy. You don’t need to compare yourself to other moms. I think you’re amazing and have done a great job. Please stop comparing our family to others. You need to enjoy the fruits of the good work you’ve done!
Please let me know when you are ready to discuss this. Love you.

I hope I didn’t go too far.
This seems like a good letter. I hope things work out for you two.
 
I was thinking the same thing. His letter had him giving in 10% and her giving in 90% without any specific addressing of her concerns - not very selfless. And it was so hard for him to go this far he had to put it in writing. Moreover, most of the things he demands are his personal preferences without regard to any of her reasonable desires. Frankly, I’m surprised they’re still together.
But these drastic changes she made unilaterally came from OUTSIDE their marriage in the first place. What if HE made some new friends who believe in the wife working outside the home and the husband staying home with the kids, and he came home after quitting his job and told his wife, “YOU are going to work now, because my friends’ families look so happy and their wives all work!” Do you see how distorted all of this is? It really doesn’t matter that she believes she is getting more Catholic all the time, it’s the fact that she is making these changes without truly consulting her husband and based on someone else’s idealistic and ideological viewpoints.

If I had cut off the cable without consulting with hubby, he’d be angry and rightfully so. It’s HIS home too, and those are the OP’s children too. He has every right to expect that his wife will act in concert with him in raising their children. She’s the one who has gone to the extreme.
 
There are some here, that are quietly cheering the wife for making these changes. They are thrilled that the wife wants to attend the EF exclusively. They do, so what is the problem? They are happy that she wants to wear a veil. Again, they do, or their wife does, so that is a good thing. More power to her. And they don’t understand how anyone could have a problem with what she is doing.

Then there are those that see this not as someone moving toward being more devout, but as someone that is unilaterally making extreme changes to her family’s life. Someone that is trying to force personal devotions on another. Someone that wants to live on the Little House on the Prairie set.
I agree with all the changes the wife wants to make. I think she is moving toward being more devout. I also think that she was wrong to unilaterally make decisions for the family.
 
I believe we’re allowed to explain our own personal opinions, as long as we don’t try to claim the Church has no right to allow Latin/vernacular, CITH/COTT, or whatever the current argument is.
I’m not sure what random strangers personal opinions on these things have to do with the problems the OP was asking about.
 
I don’t see that at all. One spouse cannot approach the other and say “here are 20 drastic changes I’d like to make to our already healthy family life” and expect half of them to be accepted in the name of compromise.

Some people do better getting a letter, thinking about it a while, then coming back to the table with their thoughts for a discussion. Some people express temselves better in writing. I don’t think that’s strange at all.

The OP was being asked to accept some pretty wacky lifestyle changes, ones that his wife made on her own after being influenced by some radical friends. I don’t think he’s obligated to compromise at all, but he did to the extent that he thought was healthy because he clearly loves his wife.
None of these lifestyle changes are wacky in and of themselves. Second of all that is based on a matter of opinion. In addition, you don’t know if her friends are “radical”, or if she is actually being influenced by them.
You are saying this about a woman that you don’t know who has yet to give her reasons about any of these issues. All of this is speculative at best, and is based on one side of the story. If anyone wants to truly help this husband, and his marriage, the best advice at this point would be to get counseling alongside his wife with a trusted priest.
 
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