Affirmative Action: Any thoughts?

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This is mostly a thread for a poll on affirmative action- post your response and thoughts below if you’d like.
 
I voted other…I think “affirmative action” programs should be based strictly on someone’s economic/financial background. A person’s race should have nothing to do with it. I’m sure the present “affirmative action” program has Dr. MLK spinning in his grave.
 
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Peacemonger:
I voted other…I think “affirmative action” programs should be based strictly on someone’s economic/financial background. A person’s race should have nothing to do with it. I’m sure the present “affirmative action” program has Dr. MLK spinning in his grave.
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Agreed
 
The Catholic bishops have made a good case for the need for affirmative action. I think the Church’s position is convincing and reasonable.
 
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katherine2:
The Catholic bishops have made a good case for the need for affirmative action. I think the Church’s position is convincing and reasonable.
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would you provide a link…i’d like to read it.
 
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Peacemonger:
I voted other…I think “affirmative action” programs should be based strictly on someone’s economic/financial background. A person’s race should have nothing to do with it. I’m sure the present “affirmative action” program has Dr. MLK spinning in his grave.
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OH! Be still my beating heart! Peace, you and I actually agree on something!

Lisa N
 
As a woman in the blue collar construction trades I am for affirmative action because women in this field are continually discrimated against, like it or not–that is how it is. I have been in this work for eighteen years and without affirmative action the good old boys would have made sure I was not employed in that field. Affirmative action is not just for people of color; it is for women in the workplace as well.
 
I would split my answer into two sections, employment and academic. I like the anti-discrimination laws in my state, but I can’t say I like the AA type programs in college education. I just saw it too many times at the state university level, where they would give minorities the chance even though they didn’t have the proper preresiquite and foundation to take some of the basic courses.

Minorities would get extra help, but these programs segregated them from the rest of the university population. Supporters of these programs stated that minorities had to be present because of diversity was an important issue. Students classified as non-minorities needed to be around them to benefit their education, so they could have a different point of view.

It seemed supporters had little care for the long term effects. These students brought on campus to further diversity had a greater chance of dropping out completely. Almost all of these students would of suceeded in a community college setting. I don’t know why in the name of progress, one would set up a person for failure?
 
Good post Renee

I’d recommend a book for anyone inerested called

Illiberal Education: The politics of race and sex on campus
by Dinesh Disouza (sp?)

Great book that makes a lot of the same points Renee and others have.
 
Affirmative action’s net effect is to divide those they are wishing to unite.

It pits race and gender against merit. This is counterproductive. Another band-aid approach to a problem.

Strengthen the family and communities by positive incentives. Get to the root of the problem.
 
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NightRider:
As a woman in the blue collar construction trades I am for affirmative action because women in this field are continually discrimated against, like it or not–that is how it is. I have been in this work for eighteen years and without affirmative action the good old boys would have made sure I was not employed in that field. Affirmative action is not just for people of color; it is for women in the workplace as well.
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Discrimination is wrong. That is unjust and should be punished appropriately. Affirmative Action is a nice word for discrimination. It is not a solution - it is simply reverse discrimination. Any policy that selects people based on gender, race, preferences etc. is discrimination against someone else not in that category. Why should that person suffer discrimination because it is perceived that someone in his/her category was discriminatory in the past?

Let’s get to the real problem. Fix the schools - teach children properly - allow opportunity for all children, regardless of financial means, from birth to age 22 to have the best education available.
 
I posted ‘against other’:
I think that affirmative action does not help the cause of race relations, but makes white people feel resentful. Also, it is often used by Blacks and Hispanics from privilaged backgrounds, such as in college admissions, who may displace a white guy from an underpriviliged background. Also, I tend to have less trust in a minority professional, such as a doctor, because I figure he or she might have been less qualified and given an opportunity based on race.

This type of social engineering is wrong, subject to too many abuses, and discrimnatory. I don’t agree with any type of preferential treatment except that based on ability.
 
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Peacemonger:
I voted other…I think “affirmative action” programs should be based strictly on someone’s economic/financial background. A person’s race should have nothing to do with it. I’m sure the present “affirmative action” program has Dr. MLK spinning in his grave.
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I agree with the “reward” going to members of that class who have demonstrated excellence despite the real discrimination that exists in American society–discrimination of opportunity based not on color but on wealth or lack thereof
 
Lisa N:
OH! Be still my beating heart! Peace, you and I actually agree on something!

Lisa N
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We agree on abortion, too!!! Whoa!! 2 down, 23 to go!!
 
I don’t think AA serves any purpose if people who are clearly unable to perform a task or unable to keep up academically are put into the mix by virtue of AA. I posted this on another thread but imagine a basketball team put together not based on talent but based on race or gender or other characteristic? Do you think they could beat the Lakers with a team of short, unathletic white guys and gals?

It’s so funny that in sports, discrimination is just fine, but to use performance or achievement for the workplace or upper level education is just unacceptable. It’s an odd dichtomy where something that really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things (sports) performance is an acceptable criteria, but if your life depends on it, you may get stuck with a low flying duck who got into the door via AA. (Women firefighters for example)

Just an example, I worked in a field that was male dominated and the firm made a concerted effort to hire more women. OTOH they didn’t LOWER their standards, they just looked harder and promoted their firm as being “woman friendly” so to speak. They did well with the male/female ratio but were aghast that there simply were few African Americans in the firm. Here was the reality, very few African Americans majored in the field and thus the pool of potential employees was tiny. So they decided that to get blacks into the firm they didn’t have to graduate in the field. They didn’t have to get good grades. They didn’t have to have all of the outside activities and other indicators of high energy and commitment. The results were disasterous. They brought in people who couldn’t do the work, who struggled along trying to keep up and who were virtually all eventually terminated. Here’s the killer, they all went to work for the FBI or the government…

After seeing this debacle I am really against any kind of “lowering of the bar” to get the right color, gender, size mix. And when I’m on the thirtieth floor of a burning building, I hope it’s a big burly man who comes up the ladder.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
I don’t think AA serves any purpose if people who are clearly unable to perform a task or unable to keep up academically are put into the mix by virtue of AA. I posted this on another thread but imagine a basketball team put together not based on talent but based on race or gender or other characteristic? Do you think they could be the Lakers? It’s so funny that in sports, discrimination is just fine, but to use performance or achievement for the workplace or upper level education is just unacceptable. It’s an odd dichtomy where something that really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things (sports) can reward performance but if your life depends on it, you may get stuck with a low flying duck who got into the door via AA.

Just an example, I worked in a field that was male dominated and the firm made a concerted effort to hire more women. OTOH they didn’t LOWER their standards, they just looked harder and promoted their firm as being “woman friendly” so to speak. They did well with the male/female ratio but were aghast that there simply were few African Americans. Here was the reality, very few African Americans majored in the field and thus the pool of potential employees was tiny. So they decided that to get blacks into the firm they didn’t have to graduate in the field. They didn’t have to get good grades. They didn’t have to have all of the outside activities and other indicators of high energy and commitment. The results were disasterous. They brought in people who couldn’t do the work, who struggled along trying to keep up and who were virtually all eventually terminated. Here’s the killer, they all went to work for the FBI or the government…

After seeing this debacle I am really against any kind of “lowering of the bar” to get the right color, gender, size mix.

Lisa N
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Me too. I think Martin Luther King (“content of their character, not the color of their skin”) would agree.
 
Lisa N:
I posted this on another thread but imagine a basketball team put together not based on talent but based on race or gender or other characteristic? Do you think they could beat the Lakers with a team of short, unathletic white guys and gals?
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Like Walter Williams says, by using AA standards, there are not enough Chinese players in the NBA.

If someone can prove they’ve been discriminated against, then a remedy should be implemented. If they haven’t been discriminated against, they should sink or swim on their own merit.
 
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