Afraid of NFP - using ABC for now

[mommamia]

NAIL ON THE HEAD!!

I have been verbally abusive; I have screamed terrible things at him; I have told him he’s a bad father; I have told him that I never should have married him…do I mean these things? No and it’s my problem that I say these things to him.

Does he mean the things he says? No and he shouldn’t say it to me either.

We are both wrong, abusive and sinning. I thought that maybe our behaviour would pass once DS’ colic was gone. He has been sleeping well for a month now and the behaviour is continuing.

This means one thing - nasty habits are forming. We don’t know how to bring it back to where it was before we began this habitual arguing. And yes, I believe it is habit forming when a couple escalates their passion over time…each new level becomes the new norm and a new acceptable habit has been formed and the couple becomes desensitized to it.

This cannot continue for us.

You are on the right path. As Ghandi said, we must be the change we wish to see. No, you can’t change him, but how horrible would it be if you just gave up without even trying to work towards change.

My advice is the same, just stop! Don’t argue with him. Assure him of your love, and think about your words. It makes me sad sometimes to see wives and husbands talking to each other in ways they wouldn’t even consider speaking to say a coworker, no matter how upset that coworker made them.

Even though my dh’s response wasn’t always an acceptable reaction, I should have probably not pushed him to be so angry. I should have been less demanding, and more supportive. In my case, maybe I should have waited the extra few seconds to let him finish what he was saying, instead of running off the moment the baby stirred.

I do think counseling would be helpful. I learned so much about how to better cope with the anger, and strategies for changing my behavior for the better. And dh did finally go with me when he realized I was committed to making ours a happier and more relaxing home for all of us.

I don’t really think you are married to an “abuser”, but that both of you have formed some bad habits.

{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

 

[BrokenFortress]

I’m sorry you’re having troubles. Not being married yet, I probably don’t hold a lot of weight in my advice, but I thought I’d touch on some things that I didn’t see mentioned yet.

One is that you said you’re too preoccupied with your kids. I think a lot of couples do this. But here’s the thing. You married your husband, not your children. The children are a result of your marriage, and to keep that going, you need to focus on your husband. It’s important to make time for your husband, to not shove him to the wayside while you take care of your kids, which can be easy to do when things go wrong and your kids do need your focus (like a colicky baby). But there needs to be a balance of focusing on your husband along with caring for your kids.

And as hard as it is, sex is important. Especially to guys. For many guys it’s the way they connect and can get hurt when their wife pushes them away. Have you thought about getting a fertility monitor like some mentioned?

Would it be too extreme to use some formula to supplement and perhaps bring back your fertility so at least you know when you’re fertile? I don’t know, I’m just putting it out there.

All I know, is that I can only imagine that your husband is suffering right now, and that is why he’s reacting the way he is.

It’s a vicious cycle. He hurts you verbally so you don’t want to be nice to him. But then you’re not loving him so he hurts you more. To make change we need to start it. Be the bigger person, it’s the one thing you can do.

 

[monicatholic]

arguing spouses
mean accusations
vicious rejoiners
dread of fertility
fear of high need babies’ destructive forces
avoiding sex
using ABC as a response to everything in collapse
feeling unloved
rejecting spouse
dehumanizing each other

dear serap, it sounds like the devil is stomping all over your family with four hooves and a head full of horns.

he hates marriage. he hates life. he hates fruitfulness. he hates, HATES all of us and will do anything to keep any of us from inching toward a deeper relationship of love with God.

hates
hates
hates
hates
lies
lies
lies
lies

that’s what he does.

when my husband and i were falling into this pit 13 or 14 years ago, someone, SOMEONE was praying for us and obtaining graces for us.

we had our family consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

do the same. if husband won’t join you, invite a good holy priest and do it on your own.

we have since had our family consecrated several times over. we know it’s a wonderful thing, if for no other reason (though we have many other reasons to know it’s a wonderful thing) because in the time right before and after the family consecration, hell tries to break loose around here.

we know consecration is an awesome thing because the devil hates it so much.

moreover, we know it’s an awesome thing because we just celebrated our 22 year together and we still live the awesome vocation of marriage together with God, not ABCing, not dehumanizing, mostly not blaming, not falling into the trap the devil sets for my family, whom he hates.

nothing-- that’s NOTHING— is easy for us, serap, but that’s not the promise of the Sacred heart. PEACE in our family— that’s HIS promise. Graces to live our states of life-- that’s His promise. HIS Love-- that’s His promise. that’s what we get.

 

[Serap]

I’m sorry you’re having troubles. Not being married yet, I probably don’t hold a lot of weight in my advice, but I thought I’d touch on some things that I didn’t see mentioned yet.

One is that you said you’re too preoccupied with your kids. I think a lot of couples do this. But here’s the thing. You married your husband, not your children. The children are a result of your marriage, and to keep that going, you need to focus on your husband. It’s important to make time for your husband, to not shove him to the wayside while you take care of your kids, which can be easy to do when things go wrong and your kids do need your focus (like a colicky baby). But there needs to be a balance of focusing on your husband along with caring for your kids.

And as hard as it is, sex is important. Especially to guys. For many guys it’s the way they connect and can get hurt when their wife pushes them away. Have you thought about getting a fertility monitor like some mentioned?

Would it be too extreme to use some formula to supplement and perhaps bring back your fertility so at least you know when you’re fertile? I don’t know, I’m just putting it out there.

All I know, is that I can only imagine that your husband is suffering right now, and that is why he’s reacting the way he is.

It’s a vicious cycle. He hurts you verbally so you don’t want to be nice to him. But then you’re not loving him so he hurts you more. To make change we need to start it. Be the bigger person, it’s the one thing you can do.

Wisdom from someone who is about to get married and good for you! Remember this post 5 years from now. Promise that to yourself!!!

 

[Serap]

arguing spouses
mean accusations
vicious rejoiners
dread of fertility
fear of high need babies’ destructive forces
avoiding sex
using ABC as a response to everything in collapse
feeling unloved
rejecting spouse
dehumanizing each other

dear serap, it sounds like the devil is stomping all over your family with four hooves and a head full of horns.

he hates marriage. he hates life. he hates fruitfulness. he hates, HATES all of us and will do anything to keep any of us from inching toward a deeper relationship of love with God.

hates
hates
hates
hates
lies
lies
lies
lies

that’s what he does.

when my husband and i were falling into this pit 13 or 14 years ago, someone, SOMEONE was praying for us and obtaining graces for us.

we had our family consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

do the same. if husband won’t join you, invite a good holy priest and do it on your own.

we have since had our family consecrated several times over. we know it’s a wonderful thing, if for no other reason (though we have many other reasons to know it’s a wonderful thing) because in the time right before and after the family consecration, hell tries to break loose around here.

we know consecration is an awesome thing because the devil hates it so much.

moreover, we know it’s an awesome thing because we just celebrated our 22 year together and we still live the awesome vocation of marriage together with God, not ABCing, not dehumanizing, mostly not blaming, not falling into the trap the devil sets for my family, whom he hates.

nothing-- that’s NOTHING— is easy for us, serap, but that’s not the promise of the Sacred heart. PEACE in our family— that’s HIS promise. Graces to live our states of life-- that’s His promise. HIS Love-- that’s His promise. that’s what we get.

Just the thought of Satan hating my life gives me the eebie geebies!

Man, I can’t believe how nice everyone is being! I was expecting to get completely slammed on this thread and instead I got love, compassion and prayers! I feel incredibly blessed!

 

[ac_claire]

Serap…I’m glad you’ve gotten support and advice here. The thing that keeps coming back to me every time I check on this thread is: I really, *really *hope that you stop contracepting. If you haven’t decided to already. And take all of the advice you can about NFP methods or abstaining. With everything that is going on with your family, and very probable demonic oppression like monicatholic mentioned, this is SO the worst time in the world to cut yourself off from ANY graces that you can possibly get. Prayers to you.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Just the thought of Satan hating my life gives me the eebie geebies!

Man, I can’t believe how nice everyone is being! I was expecting to get completely slammed on this thread and instead I got love, compassion and prayers! I feel incredibly blessed!

Well even though we are just internet friends, we still care about you!

Monicatholic, your post (as usual) was very insightful.

Excuse my ignorance, how do we have our family consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Jesus? Is it through a priest, or is it a promise we make in prayer? How do I do this? My family could use all the help we can get…

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Serap…I’m glad you’ve gotten support and advice here. The thing that keeps coming back to me every time I check on this thread is: I really, *really *hope that you stop contracepting. If you haven’t decided to already. And take all of the advice you can about NFP methods or abstaining. With everything that is going on with your family, and very probable demonic oppression like monicatholic mentioned, this is SO the worst time in the world to cut yourself off from ANY graces that you can possibly get. Prayers to you.

:sad_yes::sad_yes:

 

[monicatholic]

for family consecration to and enthronement of the Sacred Heart of Jesus, here is a link. families can do this of themselves, but you can also contact the priests at the bottom of the linked page and ask for a nearby priest. you can also ask a holy parish priest to help you. we’ve also had a layman whose specific apostolate was to consecrate families and enthrone the Sacred Heart of Jesus: sacredheartdevotion.com/enthronement.htm

 

[BrokenFortress]

Wisdom from someone who is about to get married and good for you! Remember this post 5 years from now. Promise that to yourself!!!

Thanks, I was afraid someone would say that I can’t advise since I’m not there in life. I know it’s easy to say, but hard to do in practice, much like everything in life.

I promise to remember. I think one good thing about posting here is that you can help others learn too. Perhaps there’s others in your situation but they’re just too scared to put themselves out in the open like you did.

Trusting God is so hard sometimes isn’t it? You’re too scared to trust that God will either give you a baby or not. But you know what? Even with the diaphragm, He could allow you to get pregnant, as that isn’t any more assured than properly practiced NFP. I used to be so bitter, and couldn’t trust God (in a totally different subject, but trust is all related). So I know how it is. But it’s amazing how happier you can become once you do start trusting.

Have you sat down with your husband and discussed why you’ve pushed him away? Perhaps try to get him to see that you’re just scared? Perhaps he is too. Are you two going to Mass together? What about starting to pray together about it?

 

[lovemyboys]

The best advice I have is to get a ClearBlue Easy Fertility Monitor and let it keep track of your cycles. It will work since you’re not using hormonal contraceptives. After a few months, you will see that this little machine can detect your fertile days-- this combined with Billings rules (which together make up the Marquette Method of NFP) is a very modern, scientific, and reassuring way to avoid. Give it a try, and see if your confidence in NFP comes back.

 

[Serap]

Serap…I’m glad you’ve gotten support and advice here. The thing that keeps coming back to me every time I check on this thread is: I really, *really *hope that you stop contracepting. If you haven’t decided to already. And take all of the advice you can about NFP methods or abstaining. With everything that is going on with your family, and very probable demonic oppression like monicatholic mentioned, this is SO the worst time in the world to cut yourself off from ANY graces that you can possibly get. Prayers to you.

One step at a time my friend.

So to all…I tried something new last night.

I studied my behaviour very closely and you know what? I realized that I have been a complete donkey to my husband.

Here’s how last night went:

DD was being very terrible 2ish last night and DH and I had to give her quite a few time-outs, so we were both feeling a little stressed and either one of us could have snapped quite easily.

1. I was talking to DH about our pensions and asked him if I’m the beneficiary of his pension. He didn’t answer me right away b/c he was watching the FIFA game. Instead of asking again in a snarky voice, I went into the office, found his pension info and read that I am the beneficiary.
2. DS has a cold or something and he was crying in his crib. I went to him and realized that he needed some Tempra. I went into my bathroom while DS cried very loudly b/c I left him. DH came to see the baby and saw me in the bathroom. He said, “What are you doing!!!” I didn’t answer him back b/c if I did, it would have been something like, “What do you THINK I’m doing. You can go to the baby TOO you know!”

Instead…

1. When I came in with the medicine, DH had baby on his chest and I know that DS can never get to sleep like that. I said, “Honey, DS won’t go to sleep like that. I’m going to give him some Tempra. Can you please hold the flashlight?” The old me would have said, “I can handle this! Why are you holding him? Just give him to me!”
2. In the middle of the night, DS cried again b/c of his cold or maybe teething. My husband got up b4 I did and I let my husband try to console him, instead of getting up and telling him he’s doing it wrong. After a couple of minutes and my son’s cry escalating, I went and got some more Tempra and approached my husband and said, “Give him to me. I’m going to give him some Tempra again. Please hold the flashlight.” He did and I gave DS the medicine and put him back in his crib. DH and I walk back to bed together.
3. DS woke up again at about 5:45 a.m. and he was upset again. DH went to him and brought DS into our bed. Instead of me saying, “Why did you bring him into our bed. DD is going to wake up???” (DD co-sleeps in her bed beside us). I instead said, “Give him to me. I’m going to feed him in his room.” I left with DS and let my husband go back to sleep without being angry with me.

This morning, DH was hugging me and kissing me before he went to work. I thinks he’s noticing my efforts already.

I am realizing without a doubt that I have been a big part of the problem. I think DS’s colic episode made me very bitter and angry b/c DH and I were fighting a lot during that time. I also had PPD until DS was almost 5 months old. I have not let go of the bitterness and resentment from that difficult time in our marriage. My Christian integrity calls me to let that go and move on.

I

 

[Serap]

OK…something freaky just happened.

I went to the website to Consecrate my family to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and I decided to print it. My printer was acting up. It wouldn’t start at first and then after 2 min of me trying, it said it was out of paper when it wasn’t. Then deleted all print jobs in the Print Manager, and the jobs wouldn’t delete. I was like, “What is going on??” I then sent print job again and I waited a while and finally after a few more minutes, it printed. It was just too freaky!

 

[3GirlsRUs]

The best advice I have is to get a ClearBlue Easy Fertility Monitor and let it keep track of your cycles. It will work since you’re not using hormonal contraceptives. After a few months, you will see that this little machine can detect your fertile days-- this combined with Billings rules (which together make up the Marquette Method of NFP) is a very modern, scientific, and reassuring way to avoid. Give it a try, and see if your confidence in NFP comes back.

I use Marquette. They are very clear that as long as the woman is still nursing her baby, that she should not rely on the monitor. Just something to consider. Marquette might be an excellent method for her when she is finished nursing her baby.

 

[sherimarie]

Say the prayer “Jesus I trust You!” It is so sad you have such a fear of pregnancy, I hope things work out for you and your family.

 

[FrenchGwen]

One step at a time my friend.

So to all…I tried something new last night.

I studied my behaviour very closely and you know what? I realized that I have been a complete donkey to my husband.

Here’s how last night went:

…

This morning, DH was hugging me and kissing me before he went to work. I thinks he’s noticing my efforts already.

I am realizing without a doubt that I have been a big part of the problem. I think DS’s colic episode made me very bitter and angry b/c DH and I were fighting a lot during that time. I also had PPD until DS was almost 5 months old. I have not let go of the bitterness and resentment from that difficult time in our marriage. My Christian integrity calls me to let that go and move on.

I

Serap, I’ve been following this thread and I am soooo happy to see how things are evolving. Indeed, as often NFP was NOT the problem in your couple. You saw the problem. And you’re busy doing your best to solve it. That’s awesome !!
How quickly words can impact a relationship is really freaky. And THAT’s where you realize how Little Therese intuition that “Love is in the little things” is soooo true, especially in a marriage. Love was in those little sentences and gestures you had and did not have tonight.

 

[bkoz]

Serap:

It sounds like you, like so many of us, are continuing to learn about how to grow in your relationship. There are specific skills that I have found helpful in dealing with a spouse who can be abusive.

It sounds like you have found the first of these, which is to avoiding triggers. If you can identify those things that are likely to trigger a negative response in our spouses, that can go a long way. Maybe even the only tool you will ever need. But there are others.

Another one that I find very useful is validation. Basically, by acknowledging the “feelings” that are causing the emotional outburst (not saying you think he is right, nor justifying his reaction, nor apologizing and DEFINITELY not arguing or rationalizing) can very effectively defuse a situation.

The third is boundaries. Establish what you are not willing to accept, and what you will do if the unacceptable happens. Sounds like you also did this already in walking away from a volatile situation.

One book I would recommend is The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans.

I have learned a lot of this in dealing with a spouse who has Borderline Personality Disorder. I would also suggest that you spend a bit of time looking into that possibility. Sound like your husband has some of the makings. Check out a site called www.bpdfamily.com.

Finally, on the subject of your original post, I would just suggest that you do your very best to not let the sinful dynamics of your relationship interfere with the sacramental dynamics. The one flesh union is an important dynamic in fully participating in the grace giving sacramental nature of marriage. One of the quotes I have taken from Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body is as goes the one flesh union, so goes the marriage and so goes the family. Conventional wisdom goes exactly opposite (as goes the marriage and family so goes the one flesh union).

May God bless you and your family with the grace to live your relationships to their fullest potential.

 

[utunumsint]

Hi Serap,

As the husband of a beautiful wife with three kids, I also had some real issues with NFP, absitence, anger, depression, fighting with my wife, etc…

Our NFP situation is really brutal. I have to give my wife progesterone shots, and we can only use the luteal phase (created by the progesterone). Chreighton method is great, and we have an fantastic practitioner and doctor to support us, but things are still not working the way they should, and there is an a lot of abstinence.

After about three months of total abstience, and three very busy kids, I felt I was losing it. I would yell at my kids, at my wife, and I even had a yelling match at my boss. By now, my wife had been diagnosed with sever post partum depression, and she was on Zoloft. I realize I had to take care of myself the same way. I was using Alcohol to medicate myself from all the stress at home and at work. I realized I needed something better than three cold beers to get me thourgh the craziness. So I asked my doctor for something like what my wife was taking. It was humiliating. But she agreed that I had depression, and she gave me the smallest dose of Citalopram I could take.

It worked. It really worked. For the first couple of weeks, I felt really weird, but when I got used to it, my emotions became much more managable. I wasn’t yelling any more. I wasn’t angry all the time. My wife felt like I was a new man. It also helped her feel more positive about life, not having me yelling at the kids and herself all the time. I tried out some councelling, but I couldn’t afford to continue. Still, the councelling I got helped.

I was on the drugs for around 6 months, then I wheened myself off. Things are much more manageable now. Things are better at my work, and much better with my kids. There are still lots of issues all the time, but we have come out of our darkness, and I am glad we didn’t give into ABC. But I have to tell you, it has been really, really hard.

I wouldn’t want to practice NFP for ever though. We have decided we will keep on doing it strictly for another year, then next summer, we will stop using it. God may want us to have kids sooner than we are planning, but if that is what he want, then I trust he will give us the graces to continue.

I think the hardest part is the lack of social support for large families. Our culture is structured around the idea that you have to do everything yourself. My parents went on a babysitting strike (consciously or unconsciouly, I don’t know) because they have never agreed with our adherence to the Church’s teachings. They think we are taking advantage of them, so we get no real help. We have gotten babysitters from time to time. This has helped.

Serap, I feel for your husband because I’ve been in his shoes. I feel for you as well. I remember shouting at my son one day, and seeing my eldest cowering on the stairs in fear, and I remember walking out of the house, into the garage and weeping like I haven’t wept since I was a child. It is wrong for my own son to be scared like that in his own home.

I ask myself sometimes if it is all my fault, or if there is something wrong with our society that places such pressures on parents, and offers so little assistance. Perhaps it wasn’t so hard in days gone by when people supported and encouraged large families. I don’t know. I have faith though, that our suffering has purpose, and is somehow building us up.

We are in a good place now, and God willing, he will keep us here for a while. I love my kids, and we even have it in our heart for more, when we are ready. And I love my wife. She has suffered so much, and yet she still marches on. People look down on her, because she is faithful to the churche’s teachings, but I think they also admire her for her stubourn perseverance.

God bless,
Ut

 

[catharina]

Hi Serap,

As the husband of a beautiful wife with three kids, I also had some real issues with NFP, absitence, anger, depression, fighting with my wife, etc…

Our NFP situation is really brutal. I have to give my wife progesterone shots, and we can only use the luteal phase (created by the progesterone). Chreighton method is great, and we have an fantastic practitioner and doctor to support us, but things are still not working the way they should, and there is an a lot of abstinence.

After about three months of total abstience, and three very busy kids, I felt I was losing it. I would yell at my kids, at my wife, and I even had a yelling match at my boss. By now, my wife had been diagnosed with sever post partum depression, and she was on Zoloft. I realize I had to take care of myself the same way. I was using Alcohol to medicate myself from all the stress at home and at work. I realized I needed something better than three cold beers to get me thourgh the craziness. So I asked my doctor for something like what my wife was taking. It was humiliating. But she agreed that I had depression, and she gave me the smallest dose of Citalopram I could take.

It worked. It really worked. For the first couple of weeks, I felt really weird, but when I got used to it, my emotions became much more managable. I wasn’t yelling any more. I wasn’t angry all the time. My wife felt like I was a new man. It also helped her feel more positive about life, not having me yelling at the kids and herself all the time. I tried out some councelling, but I couldn’t afford to continue. Still, the councelling I got helped.

I was on the drugs for around 6 months, then I wheened myself off. Things are much more manageable now. Things are better at my work, and much better with my kids. There are still lots of issues all the time, but we have come out of our darkness, and I am glad we didn’t give into ABC. But I have to tell you, it has been really, really hard.

I wouldn’t want to practice NFP for ever though. We have decided we will keep on doing it strictly for another year, then next summer, we will stop using it. God may want us to have kids sooner than we are planning, but if that is what he want, then I trust he will give us the graces to continue.

I think the hardest part is the lack of social support for large families. Our culture is structured around the idea that you have to do everything yourself. My parents went on a babysitting strike (consciously or unconsciouly, I don’t know) because they have never agreed with our adherence to the Church’s teachings. They think we are taking advantage of them, so we get no real help. We have gotten babysitters from time to time. This has helped.

Serap, I feel for your husband because I’ve been in his shoes. I feel for you as well. I remember shouting at my son one day, and seeing my eldest cowering on the stairs in fear, and I remember walking out of the house, into the garage and weeping like I haven’t wept since I was a child. It is wrong for my own son to be scared like that in his own home.

I ask myself sometimes if it is all my fault, or if there is something wrong with our society that places such pressures on parents, and offers so little assistance. Perhaps it wasn’t so hard in days gone by when people supported and encouraged large families. I don’t know. I have faith though, that our suffering has purpose, and is somehow building us up.

We are in a good place now, and God willing, he will keep us here for a while. I love my kids, and we even have it in our heart for more, when we are ready. And I love my wife. She has suffered so much, and yet she still marches on. People look down on her, because she is faithful to the churche’s teachings, but I think they also admire her for her stubourn perseverance.

God bless,
Ut

Wow. You are quite the man.
I applaud you, your wife and your children.

While I’m at it, shame on your parents.

 

[KostyaJMJ]

Thanks for sharing Ut. It is nice to read from people that don’t have experiences with NFP that line up with all of the smiling, obnoxious CCL couples. NFP is all about sacrifice and suffering and I’m glad you reminded me of that.