Afterlife and science?

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GordonP said:
And like I said above, I’m not convinced that they accord with Church teaching.
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If I must glory (it is not expedient indeed) but I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ: above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth): That he was caught up into paradise and heard secret words which it is not granted to man to utter.

2 Corinthians
 
In exactly the same way that the study of “alien abduction” experiences shows the commonality of the experiences.
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No, not the same way.

NDE’s experience hearing and seeing things inside and outside of the operating room, that they could not possibly have heard or seen while in their state of unconsciousness.
That’s is the very definition of a “near death” experience. The subject did not die.
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No it’s not. NDE’s heart stops and they have no brain activity. Some have had their bodies prepared to be sent to the morgue.

Dr Alexander was in a coma, but not dead. His heart was still beating and he was still breathing, although through a respirator. His cerebral cortex was completely destroyed by the rare form of meningitis he had, which means he should not have had any experience of consciousness at all. But you’d have to listen to him. He’s a neurosurgeon on knows the function of the brain and tells why his experience is contrary to what scientists have believed until recently.

Jim
 
YHWH_Christ said:
" I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark".
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Here’s a quote from Mr “nobody”: “I regard physical things as blind objects or processes that do not have Goals. Only minds have goals, thus people have souls. Materialism is a fairy tale for materialists that do not want God”

The difference between Mr Nobody and Mr hawkings is that hawkings is making an assertion based on his commitment to materialism and relying on the weight of his academic authority in science to justify it. The problem is that science has no authority regarding things that have not been identified as physical objects. Thus the idea, that the mind is essentially a bunch of moving parts and chemical reactions, is a belief existing outside the peer review status of science. We perceive physical objects with the mind, but it does not follow as true that the mind can therefore be reduced to nothing more than a physical quantifiable phenomenon.

In other words his authority on the matter is deceptive and holds no more weight than the average Joe on the street corner. This is important to note, because the only reason you feel compelled to address Mr Hawkings statement, is because Mr Hawkings said it.
 
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When it comes to Stephen Hawking and his atheism, I always wonder how he could find God when he has these sins (the following is from HuffPost):

Stephen Hawking](http://www.hawking.org.uk/) may be confined to a wheelchair, but that doesn’t seem to keep him from making the rounds. The celebrated astrophysicist is a regular at a sex club in California, according to media reports.
 
Fr Spitzer is also a highly educated scientist. My doctor’s opinion is an opinion as well, but I’ll listen to it carefully before disregarding it.
 
YHWH_Christ said:
How do we reconcile modern neuroscience with the soul? Famous physicist Stephen Hawking said,
" I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark".
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By recognizing that, while Hawking is competent to speak about matters of the physical world (computers that break down), this does not mean that he possesses any particular competency to discuss ‘heaven’ or ‘afterlife’. At best, that means it’s just one layman’s opinion. That and a quarter might get you a cup of coffee. 🤷‍♂️
GordonP said:
Makes no difference at all. It’s like saying Fr. Spitzer’s argument carries weight because he is a priest. It doesn’t.
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We could say the same thing about Hawking’s argument, then, no?
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Steven Hawking may be the best example of someone who doesn’t stay in their lane. I’ve heard enough of his diatribes to get that impression. I’ve never been impressed by anything he has said. He seemed to be very materialistic and shallow, and it showed every time he talked.

Whenever I hear “Steven Hawking said …” I just assume what follows is wrong.
 
Despite Hawking’s impressive insights into physics and the big bang, he was not a neurologist.

There is an element of fallacy in accepting someone as an authority outside their field.

ICXC NIKA
 
Presumably you ask Doc for advice concerning your body, on which he would be an authority.

Stephen Hawking was not an authority on anything relating to the human afterlife.

ICXC NIKA
 
That quote in itself is not a compelling reason. Really the best course of action would be to be humble in the face of it. Saying anything is just going to be a useless discourse that doesn’t do anyone any good.
 
Correct, which, as I said, is why I would lend value to Fr. Spitzer’s opinion, who is both a priest and a highly educated scientist
 
Anyone who doesn’t believe in afterlife doesn’t believe it. God spoke universe into existence, and it’s a language like math is. if math and language use electricity to program things into “existence” on computers why can’t God do the same? IMHO he’d end suffering and make afterlife without it, but that’s beyond my scope of being able to reason.

I can only show you the door, you have to be the one who walks through it.
 
eNomine said:
God spoke universe into existence
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Yes. I am reading St Augustine’s City of God and he makes this connection as to the word bringing about the creation and then the word also killing all the enemies at the final judgement. Alpha and Omega, the power of the word. So Genesis is not void of meaning and transcendence.
 
I read interviews with people close to Hawking. He expressed his frustration at people constantly quoting him. He had severe doubts about God not existing during his life, especially towards the end. That aside, there is a body of science that believes that consciousness doesn’t only reside in the brain. This video is worth checking out…it addresses consciousness and the afterlife from a scientific perspective… What really happens when you Die • End-of-life-phenomena | An Interview with Peter Fenwick - YouTube
 
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Sorry if I sounded rude, I wasn’t in a great mood earlier.

I generally think that the word at the beginning was “light”. It’s what was written in the bible and it makes sense for the pronunciation to be just that. “Let there be (Insert word)” Then again or maybe because of, Jesus Christ is the word incarnate. He is the Light, and He brought Light and Life to people according to John IIRC. I like to believe that everything has reasons, and because God is amazing in that sense, the bible should be able to be quoted as truth so long as the word remains in God. Some things are unsearchable, but I believe that the bible is irrefutable. That’s a Christian belief, isn’t it?
 
Job 38

Then out of the storm the Lord spoke to Job.

Who are you to question my wisdom

with your ignorant, empty words?

Now stand up straight

and answer the questions I ask you.

4Were you there when I made the world?

If you know so much, tell me about it.

5Who decided how large it would be?

Who stretched the measuring line over it?

Do you know all the answers?

6What holds up the pillars that support the earth?

Who laid the cornerstone of the world?

7 In the dawn of that day the stars sang together,

and the heavenly beings shouted for joy.

8 Who closed the gates to hold back the sea

when it burst from the womb of the earth?

9It was I who covered the sea with clouds

and wrapped it in darkness.

10I marked a boundary for the sea

and kept it behind bolted gates.

11I told it, “So far and no farther!

Here your powerful waves must stop.”

12Job, have you ever in all your life

commanded a day to dawn?

13Have you ordered the dawn to seize the earth

and shake the wicked from their hiding places?

14Daylight makes the hills and valleys stand out

like the folds of a garment,

clear as the imprint of a seal on clay.

15The light of day is too bright for the wicked

and restrains them from doing violence.

16Have you been to the springs in the depths of the sea?

Have you walked on the floor of the ocean?

17Has anyone ever shown you the gates

that guard the dark world of the dead?

18Have you any idea how big the world is?

Answer me if you know.

19Do you know where the light comes from

or what the source of darkness is?

20Can you show them how far to go,

or send them back again?

21I am sure you can, because you’re so old

and were there when the world was made!

22Have you ever visited the storerooms,

where I keep the snow and the hail?

23I keep them ready for times of trouble,

for days of battle and war.

24Have you been to the place where the sun comes up,

or the place from which the east wind blows?

25Who dug a channel for the pouring rain

and cleared the way for the thunderstorm?

26Who makes rain fall where no one lives?

27Who waters the dry and thirsty land,

so that grass springs up?

28Does either the rain or the dew have a father?

29Who is the mother of the ice and the frost,

30which turn the waters to stone

and freeze the face of the sea?

31 Can you tie the Pleiades together

or loosen the bonds that hold Orion?

32Can you guide the stars season by season

and direct the Big and the Little Dipper?

33Do you know the laws that govern the skies,

and can you make them apply to the earth?

34Can you shout orders to the clouds

and make them drench you with rain?

35And if you command the lightning to flash,

will it come to you and say, “At your service”?

36Who tells the ibis when the Nile will flood,

or who tells the rooster that rain will fall?

37Who is wise enough to count the clouds

and tilt them over to pour out the rain,

38rain that hardens the dust into lumps?

39Do you find food for lions to eat,

and satisfy hungry young lions

40when they hide in their caves,

or lie in wait in their dens?

41Who is it that feeds the ravens

when they wander about hungry,

when their young cry to me for food?
 
Catholic theology has always been in harmony with the fact that many aspects of personality and perception come from the brain.

Jesus resurrected in soul AND body for a reason.

The body is also important. Our brains will be resurrected as well.

Aristotle and Aquinas’ hylomorphic theory of the soul/body, adapted a bit to modern science, express this very well.
 
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What can science have to do with the afterlife?

If the human mind is nothing but the output of the brain, there can be no merit in science. The output is simply predetermined by the physical (name removed by moderator)ut. No one can take any credit for the output of a machine. It has no intellect or free will. Without an immaterial component to human beings, we are merely advanced robots, and all the posts on CAF are predetermined, not a result of any intellectual effort or decision making.
 
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