Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ag_not
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hisalone said:
W:shrug: here is my prize?

A who has been a sinner his whole life finds Jesus in his last hour yet does not go to Purgatory.

my prize my prize:extrahappy:
Click to expand...
:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :tsktsk: now play nicely Hisalone!!:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

Listen here Hisalone – open your mind and please think. Why do people need to be purged or cleansed of sin after they die? Don’t the merits of the death of Jesus Christ suffice for the total remission of sin? Yes, BUT Catholics understand purgation as a way that this salvation in Jesus actually “happens”, or is applied to individual persons, sometimes only after death. If one dies in some “bondage” to sin, or is crippled by sin’s effects, the sin and its effects must be forgiven, removed and purged before the person sees God “unveiled”, face to face.

Rev 21:27, Heb 12:29, Ex 33:20, Is 6:1-3, 6:5, 6:7, Matt 5:8 – that is your homework!

Please be serious. I have other passages if you want but I want you to really think deeply. All you want to do is play!
:tsktsk:
 
Hisalone said:
In both instances you have read Purgatory into the text when it is not there.
Click to expand...
=onenow1, Willing to listen can you explain where these places are?

Before answering you may want to glean over these .

In 1Peter 3:19, Christ preached to the spirits in prison. What spirits? What prison? We will become pure spirits only after we die, so the spirits have to be the spirits of the dead. Prison cannot mean Heaven, and souls in hell are lost forever. Prison must mean a third place.

1Peter 4:6, the Gospel was preached “even to the dead”. Again, where were these dead?

Matthew 12:32, “…but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this world or in the world to come.” This passage alludes to another world in which some sins will be forgiven. What other world? Again it could not be either Heaven or hell.

Hebrews 12:23, “…and to the Church of the Firstborn who are enrolled in the heavens, and to GOD, THE JUDGE OF ALL AND TO THE SPIRITS OF THE JUST MADE PERFECT.”

We have already seen from Revelation 21:27 that nothing imperfect will enter heaven, and in Hebrews 12:23, the spirits of the just are made perfect. Revelation 22:14 shows that there will be a cleansing before admission to the tree of life and entrance through the gates of the city. Where will all of this happen if not in a third place.

=onenow1 Maybe we should call it a third place rather then purgatory.🤷

Peace,onenow1 :hmmm:
 
Hisalone said:
Ag_ Would not a better approach for your eternal soul be What does the bible say on this or on that rather than attempting to dispprove a negative. One approach is about finding the truth of a thing the other is trying to get a particular belief off the hook so to speak.
Click to expand...
Asking you for proof of something that YOU think is unbiblical is NOT disproving a negative. You made a positive statement that something is NOT in scripture. So make your case. Prove your point.
 
Hisalone said:
W:shrug: here is my prize?

A man who has been a sinner his whole life finds Jesus in his last hour yet does not go to Purgatory.

my prize my prize:extrahappy:
Click to expand...
Purgatory contradicts this!

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!
 
Underdog,

I did not say I worship Mary. I used the word pedestal because this phrase was used earlier in the thread in a question about Mary. I said I honor her as I believe Jesus also did. Mary was his mother. And I believe that he gave her to all humanity on the cross as our Mother. 🙂
 
Cinette said:
I am cooking dinner and before I burn the food here is another one on Purgatory:

Jesus’ words: “I tell you that you will not get out till you have paid the last penny” (Luke 12:59) cannot refer to hell, from where there is no release.

I have more but must go now.

Ciao
Click to expand...
LUKE 12:54 Then He also said to the multitudes, "Whenever you see a cloud rising out of the west, immediately you say, ‘A shower is coming’; and so it is. 55 And when you see the south wind blow, you say, ‘There will be hot weather’; and there is. 56 Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky and of the earth, but how is it you do not discern this time? 57 “Yes, and why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right? 58 When you go with your adversary to the magistrate, make every effort along the way to settle with him, lest he drag you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I tell you, you shall not depart from there till you have paid the very last mite.”

Seriously you guys are worse than the name it and claim it crowd.
Taken totally out of context and Purgatory inserted.
Jesus is talking of earthly things who is your adversary? can anyone settle with him?
 
steve_b said:
Asking you for proof of something that YOU think is unbiblical is NOT disproving a negative. You made a positive statement that something is NOT in scripture. So make your case. Prove your point.
Click to expand...
I have it was so simple.
Luke 23
 
Hisalone said:
W:shrug: here is my prize?

A who has been a sinner his whole life finds Jesus in his last hour yet does not go to Purgatory.

my prize my prize:extrahappy:
Click to expand...
hate to burst your bubble there hisalone, but the forgiveness of Jesus directly in the case you are referring to is not comparable to the average person unless you can prove some regularity to Jesus performing in this way since the passion .
 
underdog said:
IMO…this appears to be a statement of idol worship. We are only to put God up on a pedestal to worship. Why is this posting not breaking the first commandment? Do you put your Mom and Dad on a pedestal? We are to honor our Father and Mother, and the parents are to point their children to God in Christ.
Click to expand...
There is a big difference between honor and worship…

To explain it simply, the Catholic faith does not worship the Blessed Virgin but we certainly do honor Her with the respect befitting the Holy Mother of Jesus Christ. do we not honor the mothers of our fallen soldiers, policeman and others? Of course we do. Does a mother who kisses the picture of a lost love one idolize the picture or love it in place of the one lost? no.

Perhaps it would help to understand and to keep in mind not only that the “woman” spoken of in the OT was Mary in the prophecies but also that she was predestined to suffer the pain of the sword as prophesied by Simeon at the temple. This was the reason Jesus referred to her as “woman” at times referring her to those prophecies. In fact, if you make the Compression, Mary’s life was (although a difference in degrees) to parallel the life of Jesus right down to His passion and suffering yet she remained as silent in her suffering as Jesus in His. It is a fact recognized by all Christians that the Blood of Christ is the Blood of our salvation. Mary was born full of grace and created by God with purity to be the ark of the new covenant just as God directed the construction of the ark of the old covenant. Mary was even more precious because it would be the Son of God who she would carry.
But most importantly, it should not be difficult to understand that if the blood of Jesus is the source of our salvation, this very blood pulsating through the veins of Jesus was shared by Mary in its human form and from her through Him. Her devotion and her immaculate nature could not have been flawed to start with and certainly could not have been soiled after sharing the living blood of Christ. If it were, there would be no salvation.
 
Hisalone said:
A man who has been a sinner his whole life finds Jesus in his last hour yet does not go to Purgatory.

my prize my prize:extrahappy:
Purgatory contradicts this!

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!
Click to expand...
it does NOT disprove Purgatory. You need to ask yourself what “today” meant.
  • “Today” the thief while on his own cross suffering terribly defended Jesus from attack and ridicule before men. He believed in Jesus as God. He acknowledged his own sin and fault and punishment deserving of the crime. He recognized Jesus as innocent of all that was against him. And then he asked Jesus for mercy. That’s a whole lot of theology packed into a few sentences of dialogue by the thief. Then we don’t know how much longer after this exchange, that his legs were broken, so that he would finally suffocate and die (like he didn’t suffer enough already). Do you know how hard you have to hit someone in the leg to break the leg? Keep in mind he is also crucified. His feet are nailed to a cross just like Jesus was… “Today” could have been his purgatory here. Not everybody has that unique torturous opportunity. But “today” doesn’t end there. It continues.
  • “Today” Where did Jesus go immediately after death? Heaven? No. Where did He go?
  • When did Jesus return to heaven?
  • Now ask yourself what “today” means in the context of what happened
40.png
alone:
Purgatory contradicts this!

BINGO WE HAVE A WINNER!
Click to expand...
Nope!!! try again.
 
twb1621 said:
hate to burst your bubble there hisalone, but the forgiveness of Jesus directly in the case you are referring to is not comparable to the average person unless you can prove some regularity to Jesus performing in this way since the passion .
Click to expand...
There is some serious misconception here. I will answer this fully however I want to see if this is consensus of the other Catholics.

Do other Catholics agree with this?
 
I wanted to add a thought I had about the good thief:)

First… we know that our Lord promised he would be with Him in heaven, this day. And I believe Him!

This does not, however “disprove” the truth of purgatory, but rather PROVES the great grace offered through the blood of Christ.

I think it would be in line with church teaching, to say that the good thief, was right then and there recieving a baptism of desire. Or, perhaps it could even be considered a baptism of blood…considering that He died, proclaiming Christ Jesus!

We believe baptism washes away all stains of sin…and that when we are first baptised we are in a perfect state of grace. We are filled with the Holy Spirit, leaving no room for sin!

Now…unless you want to say that somehow in his last hours proclaiming and dying with our Lord, the good thief managed to sin…we must assume he died in a perfect state of grace…after recieving a baptism of desire from Christ Himself!

These are things to ponder… and they help me understand the great promises of Jesus:)

God bless!
 
steve_b said:
it does NOT disprove Purgatory. You need to ask yourself what “today” meant.
  • “Today” the thief while on his own cross suffering terribly defended Jesus from attack and ridicule before men. He believed in Jesus as God. He acknowledged his own sin and fault and punishment deserving of the crime. He recognized Jesus as innocent of all that was against him. And then he asked Jesus for mercy. That’s a whole lot of theology packed into a few sentences of dialogue by the thief. Then we don’t know how much longer after this exchange, that his legs were broken, so that he would finally suffocate and die. “Today” could have been his purgatory here. Not everybody has that unique torturous opportunity. But “today” doesn’t end there. It continues.
  • “Today” Where did Jesus go immediately after death? Heaven? No. Where did He go?
  • When did Jesus return to heaven?
  • Now ask yourself what “today” means in the context of what happened
Nope!!! try again.
Click to expand...
Today means today. Im funny like that;)
When you recite your creed you say he went to hell.
Others say he went to the holding tank with all the OT saints to release them.
Jesus said He would be in paradise.

Jesus said Paradise. Why would He lie?
Is paradise purgatory? No one has said it was.
 
AshleyBelle said:
I wanted to add a thought I had about the good thief:)

First… we know that our Lord promised he would be with Him in heaven, this day. And I believe Him!

This does not, however “disprove” the truth of purgatory, but rather PROVES the great grace offered through the blood of Christ.

I think it would be in line with church teaching, to say that the good thief, was right then and there recieving a baptism of desire. Or, perhaps it could even be considered a baptism of blood…considering that He died, proclaiming Christ Jesus!

We believe baptism washes away all stains of sin…and that when we are first baptised we are in a perfect state of grace. We are filled with the Holy Spirit, leaving no room for sin!

Now…unless you want to say that somehow in his last hours proclaiming and dying with our Lord, the good thief managed to sin…we must assume he died in a perfect state of grace…after recieving a baptism of desire from Christ Himself!

These are things to ponder… and they help me understand the great promises of Jesus:)

God bless!
Click to expand...
So you agree with 1621 that it was a special grace granted only to the theif of the cross?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top