Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

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Martin777 said:
You know, I wouldn’t really care if Mary was sinless or not. It doesn’t affect me at all. What affects me is false teaching that distracts people from the supremacy of Christ and inserts things foreign to the inerrant Word of God.
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You obviously do care, or it would not be bothering you so much. If it is distracting you, then why do you keep bringing it up? Anyhow, you are missing the topic. The request is to demonstrate that Catholic teaching is contrary to the Scripture. CAtholic teaching is not based on the Scripture, but upon the person of Christ. The NT reflects what Catholics believe, but the Source is Christ, through the Apostles. What is “foreign” is your modern interpretation of the Scripture, separated as it is from the Apostolic Tradition. Your challenge is to show how the Apostolic Tradition contradicts the Scripture. Asserting that the Church “Inserts things foreign” does not meet the challenge.
Martin777 said:
Not saying here that you are worshipping her (are you?), but It will take us millions of years to discover the depths of Christ, and the RCC has distracted people with the Queen of Heaven. It is an abomination.
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What does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread? I think you should check the OP. Ag_Not was very clear about the ground rules.
 
Cinette said:
Whimsical! I like that word.

You know Martin I can see your joy and intensity in your Faith and I thank God for people like you. There are times when I want to just hug every Christian believer because you are one of us! Us against the secular world.

I think of what Jesus said about being “like little children” and there is a passage somewhere about the wisest, most intelligent human being is nothing compared to God’s wisdom… something like that. So if you look at your Faith you have to remember that you have to sometimes just believe. Like St Augustine said, *" Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand." *

About whimsical. I would like to know what you think of our Blessed Mother’s apparitions at Lourdes, Fatima and Guadaloupe? The tremendous witness that was and its fruit.

Also Martin - if you love your Mother, surely you will also love Jesus’ Mother too? Huh?:yup: :love: :love: :ehh:
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I sure hope he doesn’t say mean thing’s about his mother though, Because he said some mean thing’s about our Mother. The Blessed Mother. Because remember she is all of our Mother. Jesus gave her to us at the foot of the cross.

It sure makes you wonder what sin the Blessed Mother did to make people so angry at her. That may be a good thread some day. Show one thing in the bible that proves that the Blessed Mother sinned. Oh well, Could you image the wild stories we would hear on that one!
 
Is Martin gone? another one bites the dust, another one bites the dust, and another one gone and another one gone…
 
Large-scale desalination typically uses large amounts of energy as well as specialized, expensive infrastructure, making it very costly compared to the use of fresh water from rivers or groundwater. The large energy reserves of many Middle Eastern countries, along with their relative water scarcity, have led to extensive construction of desalination in this region. By mid-2007, Middle Eastern desalination accounted for close to ¾ of total world capacity.

Fischetti, Mark (September 2007), “Fresh from the Sea”, Scientific American (Scientific American, Inc.) 297 (3): 118–119, sciam.com/article.cfm?id=fresh-from-the-sea, retrieved on 3 August 2008

In the United States, due to a recent court ruling under the Clean Water Act these intakes are no longer viable without reducing mortality, by ninety percent, of the life in the ocean; the plankton, fish eggs and fish larvae
 
rinnie said:
Is Martin gone? another one bites the dust, another one bites the dust, and another one gone and another one gone…
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I doubt it… but I would have to say I think he’s a lot more charitable ( I know not always but neither or we sometimes) than some that have gone through CAF… I think he might actually believe what he’s saying rather than some who only seem to say what they do out of hatred for the CC.

SD
 
SD_Catholic said:
I doubt it… but I would have to say I think he’s a lot more charitable ( I know not always but neither or we sometimes) than some that have gone through CAF… I think he might actually believe what he’s saying rather than some who only seem to say what they do out of hatred for the CC.

SD
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I agree, that why I love his effort. He does believe what he is saying, And that is good, But as much as it hurts you must correct someone when they are trying to teach you your Church has failed you. If we don’t stand up for the Church Who will?

And so far that has not happened. Especially with scripture. Sure he has his personal opinion. Don’t we all. But you know what they say about opinion’s they are like …holes everybody’s got one!
 
rinnie said:
I agree, that why I love his effort. He does believe what he is saying, And that is good, But as much as it hurts you must correct someone when they are trying to teach you your Church has failed you. If we don’t stand up for the Church Who will?

And so far that has not happened. Especially with scripture. Sure he has his personal opinion. Don’t we all. But you know what they say about opinion’s they are like …holes everybody’s got one!
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Of course… I don’t believe singing another one bites the dust had anything to do with defending the CC though:p

SD
 
Angels_Unaware said:
youtube.com/watch?v=uezam0yABjk

Here’s a You Tube video of a Protestant figuring out 1 John 1:9 establishes a Biblical requirement for the sacrament of confession. Of course, he doesn’t call it a sacrament because he is Protestant.
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Is that not amazing. But he show’s scripture how you have to go to someone who is righteous (KINDA LIKE A PRIEST HUH) to ask God to forgive you.

Angels Unaware I feel a new thread comming on.

Something like attention all protestants what does this mean?
 
rinnie said:
I sure hope he doesn’t say mean thing’s about his mother though, Because he said some mean thing’s about our Mother. The Blessed Mother. Because remember she is all of our Mother. Jesus gave her to us at the foot of the cross.

It sure makes you wonder what sin the Blessed Mother did to make people so angry at her. That may be a good thread some day. Show one thing in the bible that proves that the Blessed Mother sinned. Oh well, Could you image the wild stories we would hear on that one!

**
Hi rinie,👋
I makes me wonder ,what sin they committed? How could our respecting and honoring Mary as the Mother of Jesus make anyone angry? SIGH!

Since it is Christmas ,I thought I would share this with everyone:

From 1558 until 1829, Roman Catholics in England were not permitted to practice their faith openly. Someone during that era wrote this carol as a catechism song for young Catholics.
It has two levels of meaning: the surface meaning plus a hidden meaning known only to members of their church. Each
element in the carol has a code word for a religious reality
which the children could remember.

-The partridge in a pear tree was Jesus Christ.

-Two turtle doves were the Old and New Testaments.

-Three French hens stood for faith, hope and love.

-The four calling birds were the four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

-The five golden rings recalled the Torah or Law, the first five books of the Old Testament.

-The six geese a-laying stood for the six days of creation.

-Seven swans a-swimming represented the sevenfold gifts of the Holy Spirit–Prophesy, Serving, Teaching, Exhortation, Contribution, Leadership, and Mercy.

-The eight maids a-milking were the eight beatitudes.

-Nine ladies dancing were the nine fruits of the Holy Spirit–Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, and Self Control.

-The ten lords a-leaping were the ten commandments.

-The eleven pipers piping stood for the eleven faithful disciples.

-The twelve drummers drumming symbolized the twelve points of belief in the Apostles’ Creed.

I found this interesting and enlightening and just wanted to share this historical fact on a Christmas Carol

Merry (Twelve Days of) Christmas Everyone

God Bless**
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SD_Catholic said:
I doubt it… but I would have to say I think he’s a lot more charitable ( I know not always but neither or we sometimes) than some that have gone through CAF… I think he might actually believe what he’s saying rather than some who only seem to say what they do out of hatred for the CC.

SD

**
Hi SD,👋

I agree. Martin seems to really believe what he says. The problem is that he only uses the five Solas. The Catholic church has been explaining them for 500 years. I think he will be back. I hope he didn’t bite the dust. We need “inquiring minds” They make the “best” catholics when they convert! 👍 Please remember to pray for all our "seperated brethren "that God may open their eyes to the true faith. I am going to go have supper with my Lord and master, I will say Hi to Jesus for all of you, and ask Him to bless and protect all!

God Bless
**
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rinnie said:
I agree, that why I love his effort. He does believe what he is saying, And that is good, But as much as it hurts you must correct someone when they are trying to teach you your Church has failed you. If we don’t stand up for the Church Who will?

And so far that has not happened. Especially with scripture. Sure he has his personal opinion. Don’t we all. But you know what they say about opinion’s they are like …holes everybody’s got one!
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Missionaries of the 21st Century are the

Laity!

So Rinnie - defend the Church, learn as much as you can and love and live your faith.

My husband and I just said the Rosary - the Joyful Mysteries - and I remembered to pray for those who do not love and honour our Blessed Mother. When I contemplated the visitation and thought of Elizabeth’s words “Blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb. And why has this happened to me, that the mother of my Lord comes to me?”
This is amazing and so evident that she was inspired by the Holy Spirit…and we must not forget her words “For as soon as I heard the sound of your greeting, the child in my womb leaped for joy.” (Luke 1:42-44)

I prayed for those who do not give Mary due honour. *If they believe in the Divinity of Jesus then how can they ignore that Mary is the Mother of God? *

Blessings to you all
Cinette:)
 
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Realcatholicgk:
You are such a sweetie - thank you for that. I have sent it out to other people…

Cheers
Cinette
 
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Realcatholicgk:
I agree… I love convert stories… they’re actually my favorite. They sometimes make me jealous that I’m a cradle C.:o .

I do also recognize Martin’s inability to except what everyone’s saying, but honestly when has anyone ever seen a die hard Protestant immediately recognize what someone has said here as being right and then admit it and move on? I’m hoping that Martin is honestly taking a look at what he has been shown and will pray on it… We may never know;)

SD
 
Martin seems like a fair-minded and kind person. I hope he comes back.
 
Ag_not said:
OK Everyone stop !!!

Ive just received a Pm from an admirer who has completely skuttled this thread -

’‘Purgatory contradicts 1 John 1:9 and Luke 23:42-43. Jesus’ blood purifies us from all sin.’'

Game Over.

Case Proven.

I hang my head in shame.

How can I possible hope to counter such erudite and eloquent arguement.

Oh, well.

I tried my best.

Thanks everyone - Im outa here …

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

:rolleyes:

😛 😛 😛
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sorry I have been so busy last couple of days but I have to ask…

you are kidding right…?..
 
benedictus2 said:
I checked my book “Catholicism: Now I get it” and it says that after the Final Judgment purgatory will disappear and only Heaven and Hell will remain"

Also in the CCC

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607
As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire.** He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

So if the purifying fire is before the Last Judgment, then when Christ comes there will be no more purgatory which in a way squares with Martins take on that Pauline passage.
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Thanks for that, but I think it shows not only a low view of the atonement and it’s perfecting work, but also a lack of understanding of (or unwillingness to believe) what Paul says in II Cor 5:17-“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.” This of course goes well with the verses in Rom. 6-8 where Paul says our old man died and we are raised NOW with Him.

by the way, is the RCC teaching that purgatory is only for Christians–born again people?
 
rinnie said:
But Martin Ole boy, I will give it to you. At least you didn’t ignore me. You are in to the last round.

I Love you Martin for your faith though, I just don’t agree with you but remember if we go together, I will have the Blessed Mother with me when I plead my case.

They don’t make anyone any better than her to pray for me. She will ask Jesus to have mercy on me too, when the big judgement day comes, and it will come Martin. You go ahead and take your chances. For me, I want the Blessed Mother, Saint Joseph, St Jude (my favorite for the hopeless) St Michael he keeps the ole devil away, etc… Welcome to my trial. And for all the Saints, Angels. Protestants, Jews anyone that believes in Jesus Christ PRAY FOR ME! AND FOR ALL YOUR CATHOLICS OUT THERE NOVENA. KEEP PRAYING TO THE BLESSED MOTHER FOR INTERCESSION FOR ME.
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Do a NT word study with your concordance on the words ‘pray’, ‘prayer’ and ‘ask’, and notice all the wonderful instruction and promises there are that God has provided for his children. He gave us all we need to know, and He made not ONE mention of praying to ‘saints’ or Mary. That makes that doctrine really irresponsibe hermeneutics. Jesus said “If you ask for ANYTHING in my name, I will do it” What else do you need? The doctrine of Mary prayer is flagrant unbelief of that promise. But I doubt you can bring yourself to admit it.
 
Martin777 said:
Do a NT word study with your concordance on the words ‘pray’, ‘prayer’ and ‘ask’, and notice all the wonderful instruction and promises there are that God has provided for his children. He gave us all we need to know, and He made not ONE mention of praying to ‘saints’ or Mary. That makes that doctrine really irresponsibe hermeneutics. Jesus said “If you ask for ANYTHING in my name, I will do it” What else do you need? The doctrine of Mary prayer is flagrant unbelief of that promise. But I doubt you can bring yourself to admit it.
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I always find this accusation confusing…

First off…it assumes that “prayer” is worship. Prayer itself is a conversation… And it is only through Jesus our one mediator, that our prayers may be heard.

Secondly, every time we pray with those in heaven, we always begin and end with “In the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.” Every prayer is done as the Bible asks, no matter who we are praying with, in heaven and on earth.
 
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