Again, patriotic songs during Mass!

[yellowbird]

I really didn’t notice what they sang at Mass. I was too busy praying for my daughter who just before Mass was taken to the Emergency Room because she was having trouble breathing and my wife had to take care of our granddaughters instead of going with me to Mass. Whether the music was appropriate or not, the readings certainly were specially the Gospel about Jesus touching Jairus" daughter and raising her up because I needed Jesus to touch MY daughter and raise her up as well. He DID. It turned out she had an asthma attack and laryngitis. I only know that our former Bishop preached the homily and that was a real surprise to see him there.

Bishop Dorn? Love him!

Glad to hear your daughter is ok.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I have nothing against patriotism, just not patriotic songs during Mass! It is incongruous to hear about America because during the Mass, Jesus is not saving me based on my citizenship of a country on earth! It’s just not relevant and is exclusive.

This is the non-traditional parish, so I won’t be asking the priest about it. I can guess his answer will be, “Like it or lump it.”

I have another very orthodox parish to attend this weekend and I will be happy to be in the pews. They also don’t clap after the recessional, or the homily for that matter.

I still do not get how sing a song/ hymn of praise that ask for God’s grace and protection to be upon the country that you live in is incongruous. For example many of the psalms are to use your words " patriotic" for Israel. should they not be read at Mass? Should they be removed form Scripture? So sorry but this is just hard to understand as sings these songs is not praise of the country but asking for God’s grace for it. Now i would agree that if the song " IN America" by CDB was sang that would not be appropriate and should not be done and one should be upset about, However songs such and God Bless America, My Country tis of thee, or Battle Hymn of the Republic are very much acceptable for Mass even more so if done as the recessional.

 

[Rejoice_Always]

BE FOREWARNED.

If you go to Mass on July 4, the powers-that-be have designated optional special readings for that day (at least that’s what it says in my St Joseph Daily Missal). You may wish to contact your parish and express your personal displeasure with such a non-CAF approved practice.

A Patriotic Hymn may also be sung, which will make you really, really upset and angry.

St Elizabeth of Portugal, pray for us, even though your name is too patriotic.

 

[IneedGod]

I was upset for a moment. Then I remembered that this counrty has fallen away from God and needs his blessings so badly right now it seemed appropriate.

It was not done durring the Eucharist I agree that would not be appropriate!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I still do not get how sing a song/ hymn of praise that ask for God’s grace and protection to be upon the country that you live in is incongruous. For example many of the psalms are to use your words " patriotic" for Israel. should they not be read at Mass? Should they be removed form Scripture? So sorry but this is just hard to understand as sings these songs is not praise of the country but asking for God’s grace for it. Now i would agree that if the song " IN America" by CDB was sang that would not be appropriate and should not be done and one should be upset about, However songs such and God Bless America, My Country tis of thee, or Battle Hymn of the Republic are very much acceptable for Mass even more so if done as the recessional.

Well, we are just going around and around on both sides, so… The forum members who understand what I object to, thanks for the support. The ones who don’t…enjoy your 4th of July! I will celebrate this great nation’s founding as an American. And then on Sunday, I will go to Mass as a Catholic.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

TheRealJuliane;9479795]Well, we are just going around and around on both sides, so…

Hey… we at least agree on that.

The forum members who understand what I object to, thanks for the support. The ones who don’t…enjoy your 4th of July! I will celebrate this great nation’s founding as an American. And then on Sunday, I will go to Mass as a Catholic.

:cool0

and I shall celebrate each day as both A Catholic and an American.

 

[PatriceA]

Well, we are just going around and around on both sides, so… The forum members who understand what I object to, thanks for the support. The ones who don’t…enjoy your 4th of July! I will celebrate this great nation’s founding as an American. And then on Sunday, I will go to Mass as a Catholic.

That’s a left handed insult if ever I saw one to those that don’t agree with you. Those that are not agreeing with you will be just as Catholic and just as American on both the 4th and ANY time they go to mass, not just on Sunday. You may not like the choice of the patriotic songs, but that doesn’t mean that any one that didn’t agree with your opinion of such songs are any less Catholic than you are.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That’s a left handed insult if ever I saw one to those that don’t agree with you. Those that are not agreeing with you will be just as Catholic and just as American on both the 4th and ANY time they go to mass, not just on Sunday. You may not like the choice of the patriotic songs, but that doesn’t mean that any one that didn’t agree with your opinion of such songs are any less Catholic than you are.

Over-sensitive much? Did I say anything about anyone else? No, I said that I would do those things. I was not in ANY WAY insulting anyone else.

By the way, it’s a “back-handed insult.” Left-handers have their own troubles.

 

[mlz]

If your American parish was not observing Fortnight for Freedom in every way possible, then your parish was deficient and ignoring the clear advice of the United States Episcopal Conference. My parish has been delivering prayers and homilies regarding religious freedom and the HHS mandate for two weeks, in concert with our own ordinary and the whole USCCB. I commend them for their fidelity to this most important cause for American Catholics which should never have been ignored just because the calendar indicated some feast day. Indeed, the homily last week for the Nativity of St. John the Baptist clearly demonstrated how St. John’s call was related to the duty of American Catholics today. I am more than certain that the Precious Blood of Christ can be related to the need to freely exercise our deeply held faith in this country in the light of persecution.

Agree. Our parish is doing the same at the call of our Bishop. My priest did a wonderful job using the text to bring in the call of the faithful in our country as a responsibility to see our religious freedom remain. Like I said before, I have no problem with this.

mlz

 

[PatriceA]

Over-sensitive much? Did I say anything about anyone else? No, I said that I would do those things. I was not in ANY WAY insulting anyone else.

By the way, it’s a “back-handed insult.” Left-handers have their own troubles.

You may not have intentionally meant to insult anyone, but your comments sure can be taken that way whether you call me overly sensitive or not. No need to attack me personally for not having a harder shell and not letting your comment about those that didn’t support you go without mention. You also didn’t have to correct my lack of correct terminology either.

 

[curlycool89]

Does anyone else besides me pray for others during Holy Communion?

Yes, but the personal prayer of the laity post-communion is just that: personal. A hymn on the other hand is part of public worship, and so should be there (if at all) to help people meditate on Who they have just received.

If people want to take their own prayers further, then that is up to them, not to the musicians. Musicians are there to help facilitate and enhance the public worship (and they do it very well, don’t get me wrong), not to tell people what they should be praying about.

I do not think anyone is wanting us to praise each other, although I do not see what is wrong with this if done within the context of the Church. After all, we have feasts days that purposely honor others in the Church.

And neither Canada Day nor Independence Day are Feat Days, they are secular celebrations.

This is true. The purpose of the Mass is for us to participate in the Sacrifice of Calvary and we can bring with us our own prayer intentions. However, while God Bless America and other patriotic songs are certainly prayerful in their attitude, the object of praise in those songs is not God but instead a worldly place. So while we can have prayer intentions during Mass for people and situations, I believe that saying we should raise our voices in praise of something other God during Mass is different.

Exactly. We can ask God to protect our country during the intercessions, but the focus of the Mass is always God Himself.

This is where we start to see problems with Catholic communities. We have reduced our parish communities to Mass, and so we feel like we have to celebrate everything and anything within the context of a Mass. Pope Benedict in the recent Consistory elevated the new Cardinals in a celebration outside of Mass. I think it’s a good reminder that we can get together outside of Mass for these things. How about a parish picnic or potluck or BBQ where we’ll sing some patriotic hymns?

I still do not get how sing a song/ hymn of praise that ask for God’s grace and protection to be upon the country that you live in is incongruous. For example many of the psalms are to use your words " patriotic" for Israel. should they not be read at Mass? Should they be removed form Scripture?

Many of the Psalms can be seen in a new light with the revelation of the New Covenant. What started with Israel has been extended to all the nations of the world. Israel in the Psalms can be seen as a representative of the world. Some point to Christ (who is Lord of all the earth), and some express deep feelings sorrow or affliction that can be understood ever without the Israeli context (they would have be written during times of affliction for Israel).

 

[stinkcat_14]

I do not think every opinion is of the same merit.

Nor do I thing anyone else does. I think most of us value our own opinions pretty highly, those who agree with us almost as high, those who disagree with us not so high.

 

[pnewton]

And neither Canada Day nor Independence Day are Feat Days, they are secular celebrations.

Well of course they are. I think everyone here is well aware of that. The point of comparison is still valid and that is all that is necessary. Namely, Mass can can be about more than just honoring God, and usually is, without detracting from the honor given God.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Many of the Psalms can be seen in a new light with the revelation of the New Covenant. What started with Israel has been extended to all the nations of the world. Israel in the Psalms can be seen as a representative of the world. Some point to Christ (who is Lord of all the earth), and some express deep feelings sorrow or affliction that can be understood ever without the Israeli context (they would have be written during times of affliction for Israel).

And many of the issue that the nation of Israel was going through in those times of affliction can be seen In many countries today and just as in the psalms cry’s went out to God for the nation of Israel so to today we need to be doing the same for our country.
Now please do not get me wrong I am in no way trying to say that any of these songs need to be raised to the level of scripture as the psalms are, what I am saying is that we need to come together in prayer for God’s grace to be poured out on country and the singing is very much a form of communal prayer.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This is where we start to see problems with Catholic communities. We have reduced our parish communities to Mass, and so we feel like we have to celebrate everything and anything within the context of a Mass. Pope Benedict in the recent Consistory elevated the new Cardinals in a celebration outside of Mass. I think it’s a good reminder that we can get together outside of Mass for these things.** How about a parish picnic or potluck or BBQ where we’ll sing some patriotic hymns?
**

Yes! I’ll totally support that!

:yup::clapping::harp::aok:

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[DaveBj]

The last verse to the National Anthem:

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

I am aware of the fourth verse of the National Anthem, and I wish it were sung – frequently. However, although it is a call to praise, it is not itself a prayer.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I am aware of the fourth verse of the National Anthem, and I wish it were sung – frequently. However, although it is a call to praise, it is not itself a prayer.

So hymns of praise don’t cut it either? So I guess we can’t sing the Doxology (“Praise God from whom all blessings flow…”) anymore, because it isn’t a “prayer?”

 

[DaveBj]

So hymns of praise don’t cut it either? So I guess we can’t sing the Doxology (“Praise God from whom all blessings flow…”) anymore, because it isn’t a “prayer?”

Whoa, backtrack there, TR. I’m at least neutral, if not not actually in favor, of the traditional “patriotic” songs on Memorial Day and around the 4th. I was just pointing out the difference between “My Country, 'Tis of Thee” and “America” (and even “God Bless America” are actual prayers, while the 4th verse of the National Anthem, meritorious as it is, is not an actual prayer.

 

[Daim3]

Many of the Psalms can be seen in a new light with the revelation of the New Covenant. What started with Israel has been extended to all the nations of the world. Israel in the Psalms can be seen as a representative of the world.

Exactly. Israel in the psalms refers to the Chosen People of God. Our Lord Jesus Christ, after fulfilling the promises of the Old Covenant, instituted the New Covenant where anyone can enter into being the Chosen People of God.

This is where we start to see problems with Catholic communities. We have reduced our parish communities to Mass, and so we feel like we have to celebrate everything and anything within the context of a Mass. Pope Benedict in the recent Consistory elevated the new Cardinals in a celebration outside of Mass. I think it’s a good reminder that we can get together outside of Mass for these things. How about a parish picnic or potluck or BBQ where we’ll sing some patriotic hymns?

This is a astute observation. I think you are completely right. And I too would go to that BBQ.

The Mass is how we participate in the Sacrifice Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ offered up to God at Calvary which is without exception the single most important and meaningful event to all of mankind. Nothing else by any stretch of the imagination comes remotely close it. To say that the Mass is about anything else is confounding. Sacred music and the words of religious songs must serve the purpose for which the Divine service is held. Any words that are sung should be in conformity with Catholic doctrine and ideally drawn mostly from Sacred Scripture and liturgical sources. If not, the result serves man and not God.

 

[Stylites]

By the way, it’s a “back-handed insult.” Left-handers have their own troubles.

Actually, “left-handed compliment” is a correct alternate saying to “back-handed compliment.”