Again, patriotic songs during Mass!

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

OOOO can we sing the U of M fight song then??? Before you say anything we all KNOW that God is a Wolverine!

Correction, God is a Hoosier. :egyptian:

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

How about “What If God Was One of Us?” by Cheryl Crow? Just as “religious” as some patriotic songs. I can deal with it but not during communion and fortunately that has been the case. The one parish I attend won’t do it at all. The other has flags, songs, prayers, etc. ::sigh::

It Joan Osborne not Cheryl Crow, And really there is not comparing of the God Bless America and what if God was one of us.

 

[Daim3]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church does tell us to be good citizens (2238-2243), it says that love of country is an extension of charity and also that we should pray for our leaders. This is a good thing and makes total sense. I don’t think anyone here has a problem with that at all. What it does not say is that we should sing songs of praise to countries during the Mass. A prayerful song that says my country or my mom has been blessed by God is not a hymn of praise to God. Once again, the purpose of the Mass is for us participate in the Sacrifice that Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ offered up to God at Calvary for the redemption of our sins. Sacred music and the words of religious songs in the Divine service must serve this purpose. Any words that are sung should be in conformity with Catholic doctrine and should ideally be drawn from Sacred Scripture and liturgical sources (1158). Just because it is done in some churches does not make it right.

How about “What If God Was One of Us?”

LOL.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The French go to Church? :ehh:

Yes, a few of them still do.

 

[pnewton]

Now how about a quote from the modern and universal Catechism of the Catholic Church (the Baltimore Catechism is not/was not ever approved for use outside of the US, so as a Canadian I’m not obliged to accept anything from it.).

Perhaps, in fairness, it is time for a quote from any source that says patriotic songs are not appropriate. I have read the CCC three times since it came out. There is nothing that would make such a thing inappropriate. No, the Baltimore Catechism is not binding, but the authority of the bishop should be respected. If he allows patriotic music in certain circumstances, then that should be respected. The OP did apply to the U.S., where we just finished a Fortnight of Freedom.

 

[pnewton]

Yes, we offer our intentions in Mass - whether they be for mothers, for fathers, for our countries, for any of our needs or petitions - and Christ unites our prayers to His own offering of Himself to the Father. This is part of the liturgy at the Offertory and part of the purpose of the Divine service. However, I don’t think there are songs of praise being sung for our mothers and fathers in Mass.

No song of praise, but songs of prayer for our country should not be viewed differently than words of prayer without music. I think that was what was being discussed, not praise. Though I do note that we do sing songs to honor Mary and other Saints.

 

[Daim3]

Perhaps, in fairness, it is time for a quote from any source that says patriotic songs are not appropriate. I have read the CCC three times since it came out. There is nothing that would make such a thing inappropriate.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church does not actually say that I can’t play harmonica along with the choir from my pew but that still doesn’t mean I should do it. Just because the Catechism does not prohibit something, it is not saying it’s ok. But what it does say is doctrine and Catholics stick to that.

 

[Daim3]

No song of praise, but songs of prayer for our country should not be viewed differently than words of prayer without music. I think that was what was being discussed, not praise. Though I do note that we do sing songs to honor Mary and other Saints.

The Offertory is a specific point during the Mass. It is after the Gospel but before the Consecration. That is where our prayer intentions are offered up and I believe most churches do not sing these prayer intentions. We also pray for our individual prayer intentions silently to ourselves after receiving Communion. However, the words of songs during the Mass must serve the purpose of the Mass which is our participation in the Sacrifice that Our Lord offered to God for our sins.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was chosen by God, conceived without sin and was the Mother of our Savior. We’re not tying to compare honoring our country or anyone else to honoring her, are we? Saints are people who led exemplary lives and through whom God’s grace worked to extraordinary degrees. We learn from them and we are inspired by them. The honor we give to them is essentially honor we give to God and that belongs to God. The same cannot be said for the honor we give to anyone else or to our countries.

 

[pnewton]

. We’re not tying to compare honoring our country or anyone else to honoring her, are we? Saints are people who led exemplary lives and through whom God’s grace worked to extraordinary degrees. We learn from them and we are inspired by them. The honor we give to them is essentially honor we give to God. The same cannot be said for the honor we give to anyone else or to our countries.

Of course I will not compare them. Yet it has been said that we can not praise any but God at Mass. This is clearly not a Catholic idea. We are allowed to honor what God has done through others and honor them. We do not detract from honor given God by honoring others, saints, Mary, mother and father, etc. Yet these are all honored at Mass at one time or another.

 

[Irishgal49]

It Joan Osborne not Cheryl Crow, And really there is not comparing of the God Bless America and what if God was one of us.

Not in my book

 

[Irishgal49]

If your American parish was not observing Fortnight for Freedom in every way possible, then your parish was deficient and ignoring the clear advice of the United States Episcopal Conference. My parish has been delivering prayers and homilies regarding religious freedom and the HHS mandate for two weeks, in concert with our own ordinary and the whole USCCB. I commend them for their fidelity to this most important cause for American Catholics which should never have been ignored just because the calendar indicated some feast day. Indeed, the homily last week for the Nativity of St. John the Baptist clearly demonstrated how St. John’s call was related to the duty of American Catholics today. I am more than certain that the Precious Blood of Christ can be related to the need to freely exercise our deeply held faith in this country in the light of persecution.

Thank heavens my priest didn’t.

 

[Daim3]

Of course I will not compare them. Yet it has been said that we can not praise any but God at Mass. This is clearly not a Catholic idea. We are allowed to honor what God has done through others and honor them. We do not detract from honor given God by honoring others, saints, Mary, mother and father, etc. Yet these are all honored at Mass at one time or another.

To say that we praise anyone or anything along with God at Mass is an idea that is not Catholic. We honor and venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the Saints because honor given to them is essentially honor due to God. Homilies can be about our countries, our parents or anything else that ties into the Liturgy or the Catholic Faith. We can pray for our intentions at the Offertory or to ourselves after Communion. Songs sung at Mass, however, must serve the purpose of the Mass which is the offering of the Sacrifice of Calvary. Just because it’s done in some places doesn’t make it right or ideal.

 

[Elizium23]

How about “What If God Was One of Us?” by Cheryl Crow? Just as “religious” as some patriotic songs. I can deal with it but not during communion and fortunately that has been the case. The one parish I attend won’t do it at all. The other has flags, songs, prayers, etc. ::sigh::

That song is not by Sheryl Crow (nor is it by Alanis Morrissette as popularly thought), it is by Joan Osborne.

 

[pnewton]

To say that we praise anyone or anything along with God at Mass is an idea that is not Catholic.

Boy, this strawman will simply not die! No one, not one has suggested we praise America. I said honor. No one is suggesting praise of country or nationalism. Rather that we** honor** America with patriotism. (at least some do)

 

[curlycool89]

I personally think the musicians can play it before Mass begins or as people are leaving and chatting, whatever. I don’t think it should be part of Mass.

I think that would be fine.

Like I’ve said many times, not everything we do as a community has to be part of Mass. There been a real movement of reductionism lately that really wants to limit what it means to be Catholic to just Mass, and therefore we must do everything in a Mass and everything outside of a Mass is “lesser”. The Liturgy is our greatest worship of God, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do other things together, and it certainly doesn’t mean that everything belongs in a Mass.

 

[SgtSchultz]

We sang O Canada at mass last Sunday in my church just before being dismissed. My friend did so in his church as well. (O Canada is actually the last song in the hymnal.) Not only did I not see a problem with this, I felt thoroughly moved by it.

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP though. I’d be mighty upset if there were the singing of any songs about the US in church.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Just to tie things up…

We went to the more orthodox parish last night for Vigil Mass. The priest reminded us to pray for our nation and her leaders, as he began his homily. Other than that, all the music was sacred - no patriotic songs at all. I wasn’t expecting any but I’m 95% sure that they were done again at the other parish.

Maybe because that parish pastor is quite … non-traditional … liberal … whatever, the opposite camp feels it has to assert the other side? Whatever. I just know that I was content in the orthodox parish.

 

[Stylites]

Just to tie things up…

We went to the more orthodox parish last night for Vigil Mass. The priest reminded us to pray for our nation and her leaders, as he began his homily. Other than that, all the music was sacred - no patriotic songs at all. I wasn’t expecting any but I’m 95% sure that they were done again at the other parish.

Maybe because that parish pastor is quite … non-traditional … liberal … whatever, the opposite camp feels it has to assert the other side? Whatever. I just know that I was content in the orthodox parish.

As it almost says in Galatians 3:28:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus, except that there is liberal and orthodox, our camp and the opposite camp, our side and the other side."

 

[TheRealJuliane]

As it almost says in Galatians 3:28:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus, except that there is liberal and orthodox, our camp and the opposite camp, our side and the other side."

See you at church then!

 

[Seeker1961]

As it almost says in Galatians 3:28:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus, except that there is liberal and orthodox, our camp and the opposite camp, our side and the other side."

Ah…you are reading from the CAF translation!