Again, patriotic songs during Mass!

[Stylites]

To say that the Mass is about anything else is confounding. Sacred music and the words of religious songs must serve the purpose for which the Divine service is held. Any words that are sung should be in conformity with Catholic doctrine and ideally drawn mostly from Sacred Scripture and liturgical sources. If not, the result serves man and not God.

We always seem to enjoy honoring mothers on Mother’'s Day at Mass, or fathers on Father’s Day, and no one stumbles out of Church all confounded and confused, or feeling that God is being served any less.

The Church in her wisdom has a view to the wellness of the whole person, and honoring one’s mother-country is something She fosters in Her children.

 

[Daim3]

We always seem to enjoy honoring mothers on Mother’'s Day at Mass, or fathers on Father’s Day, and no one stumbles out of Church all confounded and confused, or feeling that God is being served any less.

The Church in her wisdom has a view to the wellness of the whole person, and honoring one’s mother-country is something She fosters in Her children.

Yes, we offer our intentions in Mass - whether they be for mothers, for fathers, for our countries, for any of our needs or petitions - and Christ unites our prayers to His own offering of Himself to the Father. This is part of the liturgy at the Offertory and part of the purpose of the Divine service. However, I don’t think there are songs of praise being sung for our mothers and fathers in Mass. Actually, maybe there are. It wouldn’t be all that surprising. But it wouldn’t make it right either.

The part about the Church fostering love of one’s country and wellness is Catholic doctrine that I am not familiar with.

 

[Edmundus1581]

We always seem to enjoy honoring mothers on Mother’'s Day at Mass, or fathers on Father’s Day, and no one stumbles out of Church all confounded and confused, or feeling that God is being served any less.

The Church in her wisdom has a view to the wellness of the whole person, and honoring one’s mother-country is something She fosters in Her children.

Yes, but at Mass there may be Catholics from other countries who do not share your loyalties. Even more, they are **obliged **to attend if even if they are only visiting your country.

 

[Seeker1961]

We always seem to enjoy honoring mothers on Mother’'s Day at Mass, or fathers on Father’s Day, and no one stumbles out of Church all confounded and confused, or feeling that God is being served any less.

The Church in her wisdom has a view to the wellness of the whole person, and honoring one’s mother-country is something She fosters in Her children.

I will never forget the Mother’s Day that the organist felt compelled to play “M is for the Million things you gave me” as a meditation. I definitely felt God was served less that morning.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

We always seem to enjoy honoring mothers on Mother’'s Day at Mass, or fathers on Father’s Day, and no one stumbles out of Church all confounded and confused, or feeling that God is being served any less.

The Church in her wisdom has a view to the wellness of the whole person, and honoring one’s mother-country is something She fosters in Her children.

My mother-country is HEAVEN!!! Please quote the CCC for this, I’m curious about it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Yes, but at Mass there may be Catholics from other countries who do not share your loyalties. Even more, they are **obliged **to attend if even if they are only visiting your country.

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the French would NEVER sing the Marseillaise in Church.

 

[yellowbird]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the French would NEVER sing the Marseillaise in Church.

The French go to Church? :ehh:

 

[Stylites]

My mother-country is HEAVEN!!! Please quote the CCC for this, I’m curious about it.

From a The Summary of Catechism of Chistian Doctrine based on Baltimore Catechism:

THE VIRTUES AND GIFTS OF THE HOLY GHOST

. . . "Besides the theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity, there are other virtues called moral virtues. They are called moral virtues because they help us to lead moral, or good lives. They help us to treat persons and things in the right way, that is, according to the will of God. The chief moral virtues are prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance. They are called cardinal virtues because they are like hinges on which hang all other moral virtues and our whole moral life. Some of the other moral virtues are: filial piety and patriotism, obedience, liberality, patience, humility, and chastity or purity."

It is not uncommon to see, for instance, a nation’s flag sitting behind the altar somewhere in the front of the Church, which is a facet in the Church’s fostering of the moral virtue of patriotism, the love of one’s country God has placed one in.

 

[Stylites]

Yes, but at Mass there may be Catholics from other countries who do not share your loyalties. Even more, they are **obliged **to attend if even if they are only visiting your country.

Patriotism is the love of one’s country and also the recognition that other country’s citizens equally love their own country. If you travel in a foreign land and attend Mass, it ought not constern you when you see expressions of the moral virtue of patriotism displayed there.

 

[Stylites]

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the French would NEVER sing the Marseillaise in Church.

That would be up to the bishops in those countries. I myself try not to think that I know better than bishops do in what should and shouldn’t be sung in Mass, and it’s an easy struggle.

 

[Stylites]

My mother-country is HEAVEN!!!

Indeed, but a person is also a member of a family, a member of a community, of a society, and of a nation.

The Jehovah’s Witnesses likewise refuse to pledge allegiance to the nation’s flag, refuse to vote in elections, and refuse to sit on juries, seeing themselves as soujorners in a strange land, too. The Church, however, encourages civic responsibilities.

 

[curlycool89]

From a The Summary of Catechism of Chistian Doctrine based on Baltimore Catechism

Now how about a quote from the modern and universal Catechism of the Catholic Church (the Baltimore Catechism is not/was not ever approved for use outside of the US, so as a Canadian I’m not obliged to accept anything from it.).

It is not uncommon to see, for instance, a nation’s flag sitting behind the altar somewhere in the front of the Church, which is a facet in the Church’s fostering of the moral virtue of patriotism, the love of one’s country God has placed one in.

I googled this, and apparently there’s no laws regarding flags, but the US bishops suggest that it shouldn’t be in the sanctuary.

I would personally argue that flags should be banned from the sanctuary all-together (maybe an exception for certain holidays). I would be opposed to having any flags in the church because (again) the Church is about God, not about country.

 

[zab]

We sang “America the Beautiful” for the recessional hymn today, July 4. I’ll be darned if I would never go back to my wonderful parish because the music leader chose a patriotic song for the recessional!

 

[Soldier_Of_God]

I’m on the fence on this issue. Partriotism is neither good or bad in my view, as it can inspire qualities in an individual that range from beneficial to deleterious. I think this is one only few good examples where using the separation of church and state would be a good guiding principle, which I’m not necessarily promoting.

 

[Irishgal49]

Prepare for the onslaught of “you’re so uncharitable” and “be nice…”

I agree with you.

I don’t like it either and I LOVE my country.

 

[Irishgal49]

Yes, but the personal prayer of the laity post-communion is just that: personal. A hymn on the other hand is part of public worship, and so should be there (if at all) to help people meditate on Who they have just received.

If people want to take their own prayers further, then that is up to them, not to the musicians. Musicians are there to help facilitate and enhance the public worship (and they do it very well, don’t get me wrong), not to tell people what they should be praying about.

And neither Canada Day nor Independence Day are Feat Days, they are secular celebrations.

Exactly. We can ask God to protect our country during the intercessions, but the focus of the Mass is always God Himself.

This is where we start to see problems with Catholic communities. We have reduced our parish communities to Mass, and so we feel like we have to celebrate everything and anything within the context of a Mass. Pope Benedict in the recent Consistory elevated the new Cardinals in a celebration outside of Mass. I think it’s a good reminder that we can get together outside of Mass for these things. How about a parish picnic or potluck or BBQ where we’ll sing some patriotic hymns?

Many of the Psalms can be seen in a new light with the revelation of the New Covenant. What started with Israel has been extended to all the nations of the world. Israel in the Psalms can be seen as a representative of the world. Some point to Christ (who is Lord of all the earth), and some express deep feelings sorrow or affliction that can be understood ever without the Israeli context (they would have be written during times of affliction for Israel).

I personally think the musicians can play it before Mass begins or as people are leaving and chatting, whatever. I don’t think it should be part of Mass.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Yes, but at Mass there may be Catholics from other countries who do not share your loyalties. Even more, they are **obliged **to attend if even if they are only visiting your country.

But they aren’t obliged to sing, are they? I once attended a theatre performance in London that concluded with " God Save the Queen;" I stood out of respect, but didn’t sing. Simple.

 

[Irishgal49]

*Namely, Mass can can be about more than just honoring God, and usually is, without detracting from the honor given God. *

I disagree with this…Mass should ONLY be about honoring God…that’s what Mass is…the sacrifice of Christ should not be mixed or blended with anything else.

 

[Irishgal49]

I pray for others faithfully after receiving communion and have even prayed for our country. Even with all its faults, I love the USA and would not want to live anywhere else. I pray to God that this country does the right thing in the coming weeks and months. I still believe we live in the greatest country in the world. And no, I don’t want to hear patriotic songs during mass. The purpose of sacred music in mass should be to praise God, not some worldly place or each other. If the Eucharist is more about community than becoming the unified mystical body of Christ, then how about we sing the school song from the high school down the street?

OOOO can we sing the U of M fight song then??? Before you say anything we all KNOW that God is a Wolverine!

 

[Irishgal49]

We sang Lee Greenwood’s God Bless The USA at mass today and it was beautiful.

Ok, just kidding.

I love this country and am so fortunate to be living here but I could not agree with the above statement more; behind you all the way on this.

How about “What If God Was One of Us?” by Cheryl Crow? Just as “religious” as some patriotic songs. I can deal with it but not during communion and fortunately that has been the case. The one parish I attend won’t do it at all. The other has flags, songs, prayers, etc. ::sigh::