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Irishmom2
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What did the police say can be done, nothing?
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Just out of curiosity, does anybody know which bishop or bishops ordains their priests and confers confirmation? It’s obviously not the Bishop of Colorado Springs.
When they say on their website that they are “endorsed by Catholic bishops worldwide”, this most likely refers to renegade bishops who have secured consecration by other bishops not in good standing with Rome. There are scads of those running around — Thuc orders, Duarte Costa orders, Ultrajectine orders, a real hodgepodge. Obviously these bishops believe they are “Catholic bishops”.
When they say on their website that they are “endorsed by Catholic bishops worldwide”, this most likely refers to renegade bishops who have secured consecration by other bishops not in good standing with Rome. There are scads of those running around — Thuc orders, Duarte Costa orders, Ultrajectine orders, a real hodgepodge. Obviously these bishops believe they are “Catholic bishops”.
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Irishmom2
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Read the info in post 4.
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Jfsteck
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They will never have an ordination though they have my son convinced they will.
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Jfsteck
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If he was 17 when he left… something could have been done. They waited until he was 18 and knew we would have difficulty stopping him. Just after 18th birthday (this is actually when he told us he was leaving and was not finishing high school) a month later he left in the night
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Irishmom2
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I am so sorry this happened. It is outrageous. How do these people live with themselves?
I cannot imagine how you must feel. A wrong choice on your son’s part is going to affect his life. I pray that something happens that will make him come to his senses and leave, or that somehow you can get him out of there.
I cannot imagine how you must feel. A wrong choice on your son’s part is going to affect his life. I pray that something happens that will make him come to his senses and leave, or that somehow you can get him out of there.
No, there’s nothing in post 4 (my post) saying which bishop ordains their priests. Fr Ward was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre, but that predates the existence of the Servants of the Holy Family. Nowhere in the letter from the Bishop of Colorado Springs is it specified who ordains their priests.
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Jfsteck
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They cannot have any Valid ordination And have had none for more than 30 years. We were told “many Bishops” are available to ordain however this is not true and they know it. There is no seminary and no future for anyone there as long as they remain outside The Church. They are not listed in the Diocese
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Irishmom2
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You are correct. I misunderstood your question.
My guess is that either it is a bishop that is not fully aware Of what was going on, or it was a bishop that has his own agenda.
My guess is that either it is a bishop that is not fully aware Of what was going on, or it was a bishop that has his own agenda.
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Irishmom2
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Oh, of course they are not valid. That is certainly clear!
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ReaderT
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I’m sorry to say it - and I’m sure you already know it - but that is a typical tactic that cults use to get unwavering loyalty over followers. It was the same with Warren Jeffs and his Fundamentalist Mormon church, and many others…
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Jfsteck
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As it’s happening and you are watching your normal child go from happy, and vibrant to obsessed with sin and fearful it is terrifying. There is a cold calculation you rarely see except in stories but it is Very real
You may be conflating “valid” with “licit”. If their bishop has valid Holy Orders — which can be had even outside the Church (Orthodox, Thuc-line, Duarte Costa-line, Old Catholic, and so on) — meaning that he is indeed a bishop, then the priests he ordains will be validly ordained. Valid, but illicit, meaning that the sacrament does indeed “take”, but it is done illicitly, outside of Church law.
Short answer, they are true bishops and priests (traditionalist groups typically go to great lengths to assure the validity of their orders), but they exercise their ministry outside the purview and jurisdiction of the Church. Their baptisms, confirmations, Eucharist (i.e., Masses), and Holy Orders would all be valid but illicit. Confessions and marriages would be invalid, as you have to have specific faculties for those. Anointing of the sick, not sure about that — traditionally, anointing was called “extreme unction” and was only administered in danger of death, so I would think the Church supplies validity for end-of-life situations, but I couldn’t swear to it in this situation. Anyone?
I seriously doubt they have been able to find a valid, licit canonical bishop, who doesn’t understand who they are and what they are, to ordain their priests. Legitimate bishops are pretty circumspect about that sort of thing. I have a feeling all of these bishops who “endorse” them are illicit, possibly even schismatic bishops. (A list of these bishops would be nice.)
@Jfsteck, I surely hope your son is able to come out of that movement. I shall pray for this intention.
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Pattylt
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Did you read the Bishops letter explaining this group? It was posted upthread. I’m not catholic so I can speak to all the nuances you are describing but it sounds like they aren’t even licit?
Are you replying to me? Yes, I did read the Bishop’s letter. I am saying that the sacraments may be valid, they probably are (aside from confessions and marriages), but in any case, they are illicit. Not licit. Not approved by the Church. Sacraments can be valid without being licit.
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Alexandria2020
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But in the case of the SSPX, they have faculties for confession right?
The SSPX was indeed granted those faculties by Pope Francis. No other independent traditionalist groups have these faculties.HomeschoolDad:
But in the case of the SSPX, they have faculties for confession right?
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Jfsteck
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They can say private Mass but Marriage and Baptisms definitely invalid
No, the baptisms would be entirely valid. Illicit, yes, invalid, no.
Just to recap:
- Valid - the sacrament does what it is supposed to do, i.e., it “takes”
- Invalid - there is no sacrament
- Licit - permitted by competent authority within the Church
- Illicit - not permitted, or specifically forbidden
- Baptism, confirmation, the Eucharist, and Holy Orders would be examples of this.
- For matrimony or penance, the Church must specifically give permission, not only for liciety, but also for validity.
- For anointing of the sick, in traditional rites, that’s probably a moot point, because the Church supplies faculties for both penance and AOTS in danger of death, and traditionalist priests only administer AOTS when death is foreseen to occur fairly soon. In other words, AOTS is not administered by them to people who are simply sick or infirm — they have to be at death’s door. The traditional term for AOTS is “extreme unction”, i.e., anointing/unction (same thing) in extremis.
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carmelitequotes
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@HomeschoolDad Thank you so much for posting the PDF document from the Diocese of Colorado Springs! I just wrote to Bishop Sheridan’s executive assistant today and received an out-of-office reply; she will return Monday.
As Bishop Sheridan stated in 2013, “it will be an act of spiritual danger for Catholics to attend these celebrations and they could be penalized in accordance with Canon 1365.”
The self-styled “Sisters of Carmel” are the greatest concern for myself and my apostolate as a Discalced Carmelite Secular. They misrepresent themselves to faithful Catholics, apparently are not registered with the State of Colorado as a 501( c )3 non-profit organization, therefore it leads one to wonder if the “Sisters” are operating as the “cash cow” for this schismatic cult.
Search 501( c )3 Non-Profits in the State of Colorado
@Irishmom2 you asked about their location. It also resembles a cult compound.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
@Jfsteck Because I collaborate frequently with our Discalced Carmelite General Curia, I plan to contact our General Archivist to investigate the disobedience at the root of Miss Florence and Miss Schull, these ex-nuns from Gallup. I think that the results could prove valuable to a fraud investigation at the state or federal level
At this link you can read an Associated Press article from 1988 concerning a lawsuit filed in Colorado Springs by the “Carmelite Monastery of the Sacred Hearts” (a.k.a. Sisters of Carmel), “an independent community no longer recognized by the Roman Catholic Church”
Also @Jfsteck, do you know how to file an FBI IC3 report? Link here It is not too difficult. Carefully read the website, present your evidence, and the local FBI office will contact you by phone. It is their job to investigate, not yours. It sounds to me like you have valid evidence to present an internet crime report to IC3.
My concern with the “Sisters” is that they may be recruiting and brainwashing young girls in the same way that the “Fathers” are luring and brainwashing young men.
At the very least they are depriving our O.Carm. and Discalced Carmelite nuns who observe papal enclosure with the blessing of their bishops, their Orders, and our Holy Church the opportunity to support themselves by the work of their hands.
Charity “rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth with the truth” (1 Cor 13:6).
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