Agnostic versus Atheist

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LethalMouse said:
Sort of, though I’d say that many “atheists” are more agnostic. In a sense, even Richard Dawkins whose life is dedicated to touting atheism has admitted “well there could be”

So with that I’ve known “atheists” (or agnostics really) who have seen miracles but still don’t believe them.

I have been one of them in the past O.o
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And almost everyone cries out to God when they are in a disaster. Oh God, Oh God!
 
LethalMouse said:
Sort of, though I’d say that many “atheists” are more agnostic. In a sense, even Richard Dawkins whose life is dedicated to touting atheism has admitted “well there could be”

So with that I’ve known “atheists” (or agnostics really) who have seen miracles but still don’t believe them.

I have been one of them in the past O.o
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That was my point in my earlier post - if creation is, then that which is created is a miracle.

I have no doubt that every person in this world has been witness to a miracle…

If creation is true, it’s impossible not to be a witness to a miracle - life.

‘Seeing’ as such requires a change, if needed (multiple perspectives exist, as do different glasses).

Take care,
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
And almost everyone cries out to God when they are in a disaster. Oh God, Oh God!
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Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
 
Bradski said:
Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
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Well he did say “almost”.

There is 2 reaonable exolanations one being atheisn and the other being theological.

If not God then okay makes sense

If God it speaks to the person…

Now I find it interesting that an atheist be on a forum such as this to impart their views…

Could be purely psychological

Could be a yearning in a warped way for God

Could be what would be theologically evil

We will never know for sure until the day we either know… or dont know because we dont exist anymore o.O lol

Basically if you are right, we will just never have an answer

If you are wrong, we will… and I would like to think you’d be given a fair moment to change the tune or roll with it.

I know one atheist who asked God for a sign, he didnt get it so he renounced the existence of God because he was proven unreal… as he uttered his last word of proclaiming atheism he was given a sign… he says a sign from God… but God was too late so he knows God doesn’t exist, the same God that did a sign that he acknowledges… idk wierd so he is an atheist who has seen proof of God o.O
 
“God” is also used in idiomatic phrases.

When people used phrases such as “By Jove, I think he’s got it!” I don’t think they were making a declaration to the Roman God Jupiter. It doesn’t indicate the person thinks the Roman God exists. Rather people seem to repeat phrases they’ve heard sometimes with slight modifications. It does have a basis as an Oath bit isn’t used that way any more.

A person that says “Close but no cigar” Wasn’t making a tobacco offer. “Hold your horses” isn’t a command to restrain your equines. Concluding that some one is trying to interact with Yahweh when she says “Oh God” (or types OMG which seems to be the more popular form in text based communication) might at times be barking up the wrong tree (which is not a literal statement about trees or barking).

There are several other idioms involving religious figures most of which I think wouldn’t be welcomed here possibly considered profane in the sense of corrupting the holy. The use of the expressions are not messages directed at the figures named. There is also a book with a section on such language and is evolution by Melissa Mohr the title of which would not be welcomed here.

See also
  • (Oh) man
  • (Oh) boy
  • (Oh) brother
  • (Oh) my word
  • Oh Dear
  • Minced Oath
 
Bradski said:
Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
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It looks to me like you never got out of that particular foxhole, because here you are at Catholic Answers. 😉
 
Bradski said:
Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
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you’re too cool for me Bradski:cool:
 
Bradski said:
Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
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What happened? Just curious.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
What happened? Just curious.
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Travelling in Turkey, our bus hit a car head on in the early hours. We were in the mountains. Bus skidded off the road and slowly started to roll. Held on to my wife, thought of the kids and then…it came to rest up against what was left of the car. Nobody seriously hurt, but the guys in the car…not sure that they had time to think about their family.

Seems that Allah wanted them but God didn’t want me.

Now if I’m on a bus I always check to see where that little hammer is you use to break the windows. Just in case.
 
Bradski said:
Speaking from personal experience, there was an incident a few years back when I seriously thought my time had come. I momentarily wondered about who would tell the kids and how they would react. I remember hoping that it was going to be quick and painless. Obviously, things turned out OK…

But pondering my good fortune later, I realised that there hadn’t been any special pleading. No spontaneous cry for help to God. No deals made at the spur of the moment (get me out of this and I swear…).

There was an atheist in that particular foxhole.
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Split second death threat: no atheist in a foxhole.

Spending actual time in that threat, say, more than 10 minutes: NO atheists in that foxhole.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
Actual atheists in actual foxholes

So can we cease using that utterly untrue canard at this point?
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We call to who or whatever we think might help us. One’s mother, God, providence, Odin,

I had plenty of time to ask. The guys in the car…not so much. The shot of adrenalin that you get in those circumstances speeds up your thought processes - a handy evolutionary trick, which makes everything appear to happen in slo mo.

So maybe they did have time for a quick thought as the headlights came at them. Maybe it was a plea for help. Maybe a brief flare of anger against Allah. Maybe thanks. Maybe they realised it was all for nought. Either way, they lost their chance to ponder on the mysteries of existence.
 
Bradski said:
. . . Either way, they lost their chance to ponder on the mysteries of existence.
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You know how you feel about unicorns? That’s how I feel about this statement. It is a fantasy.

They will ponder for all eternity. All that is left at the end is our relationship with God, which being inside every experience, is all we ever have, doing His will or not and whether we know it or not.
 
Charlemagne_III said:
With respect to the existence of God, what material difference is there between being an agnostic and being an atheist?
Your thoughts?
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Ideally, an agnostic should have no solid worldviews and will not draw any certain conclusions on issues where there’s a lack of logic and science. This is at least part of why Huxley coined the term, that is, to go against the unproven atheistic worldviews and theistic worldviews. Atheists usually have worldviews that they strongly hold and they also tend to rely on science and reason. The characteristics I mentioned for each label is an indicator of how each would approach a matter that requires intellectual inquiry.

Agnostics are usually not bogged down with naturalism and reductive materialism, so we’re probably have little problem with a God concept other than the lack of empirical support (i’m open to experiences of God) and internal consistency within a religion.

Atheists will probably be further away from accepting any God concept as true because their worldview has more incompatibilities with the concept.

My view comes from my experience of agnostics and atheists.
 
Bradski said:
We call to who or whatever we think might help us. One’s mother, God, providence, Odin,

I had plenty of time to ask. The guys in the car…not so much. The shot of adrenalin that you get in those circumstances speeds up your thought processes - a handy evolutionary trick, which makes everything appear to happen in slo mo.

So maybe they did have time for a quick thought as the headlights came at them. Maybe it was a plea for help. Maybe a brief flare of anger against Allah. Maybe thanks. Maybe they realised it was all for nought. Either way, they lost their chance to ponder on the mysteries of existence.
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You are asking us to believe in a claim that is…unfalsifiable.

And I will play the atheist here: I won’t believe in your claim that you “had plenty of time” to ponder your impending death and remained an atheist in this foxhole.

Until you can provide evidence for this, I will remain an atheist on this position.
 
PRmerger said:
Do you think this is a sufficient paradigm for determining a “view” of something–one’s experience?
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Within oneself often. Within society rarely. Stereotype vs psychological profile…

If one has a degree they are “recognized” ina field. If one is an at home tinkerer they are not by society until they make an invention that us deemed to prove their worth though up until that point they may have been better in a field than he with the degree. Therefore it is often more subjective personal choice on what "we"accept based on some arbitrary and some concludable evidences.
 
PRmerger said:
Do you think this is a sufficient paradigm for determining a “view” of something–one’s experience?
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In the absence of a reputable survey that examines this issue specifically, for now, I would say yes. I’ve encountered many atheists and have heard more than enough atheist leaders (or popular selling atheists - Dawkins, Harris, Shermer, Hitchens, Dennett, etc) speak.

To find out what many believe, you can just find out what their leader believes since that will be what he will feed to his followers.
 
AgnosticBoy said:
In the absence of a reputable survey that examines this issue specifically, for now, I would say yes.
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How would you design this survey?
To find out what many believe, you can just find out what their leader believes and what he or she is feeding his followers.
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Interesting…

So you are an American, yes?
Your governor is your leader?

Do you think it would be correct for me to conclude that what you believe is what your governor believes?
 
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