Ahmadi's, Where is Jesus Buried?

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Ok, let us not define what “liar” means because this isn’t exactly what i was asking. I just need a simple answer from the Ahmadi’s since they are forever claiming Jesus died and was buried in Kashmir. I simply want to look at the proof behind this absurd propaganda (which quite frankly offends me).
 
absurd propaganda
Hi

I think you are a biased person; I never made any propoganda. I stated simply what I believed in. Your qualifying it with the word “absurd” is not in the spirit of discussion. You only want to win, and that I can accede to you even without a discussion.

God Allah bless you!

Thanks
 
Thank you both, swariffin and Reuben J.

And to answer to your previous question in the Islam/Satan connection thread swariffin, yes i do have epilepsy (F.L.E) and i also suffer from a disc herniation from a work-related accident. Thank you for your prayers and well wishes. 🙂
I am so sorry too. I happen to know a bit of medical related conditions and if this is any consolation, a FLE is just like any other illnesses. Sometimes people like to stigmatize thing but sickness happen to all people all the time.

May the Lord bless you and keep you and may his face shine on you and give you peace. +
 
Hi

I think you are a biased person; I never made any propoganda. I stated simply what I believed in. Your qualifying it with the word “absurd” is not in the spirit of discussion. You only want to win, and that I can accede to you even without a discussion.
I find the idea of Jesus’ burial site in Kashmir just as absurd as the other supposed burial sites. Jesus ascended to heaven, he did not escape to some faraway land to raise a family and then died. Its absurd because it offends Christians who believe in Jesus’ ascension to heaven. A propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people.

-deliberateattempt to shape perceptionsto achieve a response that furthers the desired intent of the propagandist.Garth S. Jowett and Victoria O’Donnell, Propaganda and Persuasion

You have yet to provide substantial information as to why Ahmadi’s believe Jesus was buried in Kashmir. Don’t you think Mirza Ghulam Ahmad jumped to conclusions too soon?
 
I am so sorry too. I happen to know a bit of medical related conditions and if this is any consolation, a FLE is just like any other illnesses. Sometimes people like to stigmatize thing but sickness happen to all people all the time.

May the Lord bless you and keep you and may his face shine on you and give you peace. +
F.L.E can be life-threatening as i found out a few months ago. I will now have to depend on life-long medication to stabilize the condition. I should be thankful though, as there are others out there with far worse medical complications. The only thing that hurts the most is the herniated disc. Its like someone pinching the nerves on your shoulders and never letting it go. I spent several nights without sleep because the pain was unbearable even while lying down. Sometimes i take this as God’s test - to see if i would give up my faith in Him (it happened to me before my conversion), but this time round, i’m sticking with Him and denouncing the Great Tempter.
 
Hi cathopologist!

Sorry to know that you have these diseases.

May God Allah bless you and you get cured.
 
Cathopologist,

You have my prayers also. I understand a bit of what you go through. My youngest daughter has Lennox Gasteau epilepsy.

Ahmadis,

Where is Jesus Buried. Surely someone must know since it is a key point in your cosmovision as I understand it.
 
Your answer was not convincing at all. The reputed sites are proof of known myths - including the one claimed by your self-proclaimed Mahdi (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad). All must be correct or all must be false. Jesus cannot possibly have died and buried all around the world. You as i know that is a ridiculous thought. Now if you wish to say Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was correct, where is his proof and how does the Ahmadiyya movement explain all the known burial sites? I reiterate, please do not quote from Ahmadiyya propaganda as i view them as weak arguements. I prefer peer-reviewed articles to back up your claims.
Cathopologist, you have narrowed down the mode of useful replies to non_Ahmadi writers. Then you should go to ask the non-Ahmadis only. That was not good of you to say that you would not prefer any Ahmadi based reply.

Now, I can only guide you and the rest of friends here to read the follwing two books (very special) on this subject:
  1. Masih Hindustan main (Jesus in India) by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. That was written in year about 1894 A.D.
  2. Jesus in Heaven on earth, by Dr. Nazir Ahmad. (Must have been a later, well documented book on the subject).
It will give you all the positive proofs that Jesus, in fact, after the ordeal of the cross, migrated to far off lands, leaving behind historical proofs of his travel.

I hope this is the only answer to your question by any Ahmadi angle. That grave in Sirinagar (Kashmir) of Jesus is east west grave, proving that it is not any Muslim grave. The Muslim graves in India are all lying North south . The Hindus and Sikhs do not have any grave. Please read the two books which must be available on the net. Then ask any question about the grave of Jesus a.s.

You will all be fully satisfied that Jesus indeed travelled to Persia and Afghanistan and then onto India. He may have gone to Tibet too. It was necessary for Jesus to go in search of the lost sheep of Israel (as per bible). The Quran also describes that Jesus and his mother were accommodated (given shelter) in a very good high level place of comfort with running fountains.
 
*Thank you both paarsurrey and cthulhubryan for keeping me in your prayers.

planten, the reason why i asked for non-Ahmadi sources to back up your claims is because only Ahmadi’s believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claims. There are some non-Ahmadi’s who believe in the fantastical mythological stories of Jesus too but they are no different than the Duh Vinci Code and its author.

Since the Ahmadi’s are proud of their missionary work in other countries, they must have faced alot of enquiries regarding their Messiah’s claims. Simply quoting Mirza’s ‘revelations’ won’t work for the intelligent Muslim or non-Muslim. There has to be hard-core evidence supported by non-religious experts.
 
*Thank you both paarsurrey and cthulhubryan for keeping me in your prayers.

planten, the reason why i asked for non-Ahmadi sources to back up your claims is because only Ahmadi’s believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claims. There are some non-Ahmadi’s who believe in the fantastical mythological stories of Jesus too but they are no different than the Duh Vinci Code and its author.

Since the Ahmadi’s are proud of their missionary work in other countries, they must have faced alot of enquiries regarding their Messiah’s claims. Simply quoting Mirza’s ‘revelations’ won’t work for the intelligent Muslim or non-Muslim. There has to be hard-core evidence supported by non-religious experts.
Hi

Thank you for explaining the things. I had the impression initially that you have restricted Ahmadi response as if you were playing as an anchor in the discussion; and with others you would only ridicule my (name removed by moderator)uts in the thread. Naturally I needed not to respond in such a situation; and perhaps nobody would respond in such a situation, it is not useful.

I want to make it very clear and would like to mention the chain of our viewpoint on the issue “Jesus did not die on the Cross and escaped his life and died elsewhere naturally and peacefully”. We base our viewpoint:
  1. Nobody has hegemony on Quran; we truly interpret verses of the Quran, in our opinion that Jesus needed not to be disgraced in terms of OTBible to be hanged on Cross resulting into a disgraceful death.
  2. Mary was a truthful mother of Jesus- born of her under natural but rare phenomenon as is observed in insects and sharks etc. So this kind of birth does not make one god; as nobody believes that these insects and sharks are god. Jews said words of calumny against Mary. Quran clears her of their calumny in so many verses; such verses that create only sentiments of love for Mary in the minds of Muslims. Mary was also a recipient of Word of God Allah (as did also Moses’ mother) like Jesus and they both served religion of Moses.
  3. As Jesus held Jews responsible for always attempting to kill the Messengers of God Allah; so were the Jews responsible for attempted murder of Jesus. You know this is very much in Quran.
  4. Jesus and Mary did not have a tough time as they did have in the incident of Crucifixion. Quran mention very clearly that God Allah gave them refuge from the Jewish designs in a country on high altitude, with comforts and with fountains.
  5. **Second Coming 1835-1908 **believed like the traditional Muslims that Jesus did not die on Cross but God Allah raised him unto himself until God Allah informed him by Word from God Allah that Jesus died naturally and peacefully and He only raised his soul , not the body unto Him.
Our view point, in short, is basically based on Quran as you can observe from the above, in our opinion.

Others, Muslims in majority or Catholics in majority, may believe otherwise if they like, we don’t mind but we believe what we believe rightly and with reasons.

May be you understand now.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks
 
Thank you for explaining the things. I had the impression initially that you have restricted Ahmadi response as if you were playing as an anchor in the discussion; and with others you would only ridicule my (name removed by moderator)uts in the thread. Naturally I needed not to respond in such a situation; and perhaps nobody would respond in such a situation, it is not useful.
Actually i did mention i am not into Ahmadi apologia, as it does no good to the intelligent inquisitor. You might say that the questions raised are very skeptical of your beliefs. Skepticism does not necessarily mean disrespect, but it could mean disbelief.
I want to make it very clear …“Jesus did not die on the Cross and escaped his life and died elsewhere naturally and peacefully”.
That’s an ad hominem statement we are so used to, but it does not mean its not offensive to us either.
Nobody has hegemony on Quran; we truly interpret verses of the Quran, in our opinion that Jesus needed not to be disgraced in terms of OTBible to be hanged on Cross resulting into a disgraceful death.
In many cultures, dying for a cause is not considered a ‘disgrace’ as opposed to dying without a cause. Bombing yourself is a disgraceful act since you die without a cause. Jesus’ hanging on the cross was not disgraceful but triumphant as He fulfilled the Old Testament’s revelations. If He didn’t rise, then His death would have been disgraceful.
Mary was a truthful mother of Jesus- born of her under natural but rare phenomenon as is observed in insects and sharks etc. So this kind of birth does not make one god; as nobody believes that these insects and sharks are god.
Mary was no ‘insect’ nor ‘shark’. She was born free from sin which even the Qu’ran admits. Mary was a human and not a hermaphrodite. It was a Higher Power (Holy Spirit) that made it possible for Mary to give birth to Christ Our Lord. Only God makes all things possible, including the Immaculate Conception.
Jews said words of calumny against Mary. Quran clears her of their calumny in so many verses; such verses that create only sentiments of love for Mary in the minds of Muslims. Mary was also a recipient of Word of God Allah (as did also Moses’ mother) like Jesus and they both served religion of Moses.
Actually it is the Babylonian Talmud that makes such derogatory remarks against the Theotokos. The New Testament simply assumes both Mary and Joseph may have encountered skepticism from other Jews, but that skepticism didn’t last long because they certainly didn’t have a problem at the wedding when Jesus turned water into wine. Had they been ridiculed (and succeeded) it is Jewish custom to send them to exile, which your Qu’ran fails to mention. Mary, Joseph and Jesus were all Jews, as was Moses.
As Jesus held Jews responsible for always attempting to kill the Messengers of God Allah; so were the Jews responsible for attempted murder of Jesus. You know this is very much in Quran.
No, Jesus didn’t single out the Jews for anything. What Jesus did not like was to see hypocrites playing god. It is wrong to assume Jews were responsible for Jesus’ death. If its anyone, WE ALL played a part in His death because we did not believe.
Jesus and Mary did not have a tough time as they did have in the incident of Crucifixion. Quran mention very clearly that God Allah gave them refuge from the Jewish designs in a country on high altitude, with comforts and with fountains.
How can you say a Mother does not feel pain when she has to see her Son suffer on the Cross? Jesus was both Man and God. As a Man, He did feel pain. As God, He rose on the third day to prove His divinity to those who did not believe. The Qu’ran disregards His divinity because if it didn’t, that would render Mohammad’s claims false. As for the Holy Family’s ‘great escape’ story, that is ridiculous, since there are several sites around the world that all claim to have Jesus’ tomb. This is why Mirza’s claim is as bad as the others.
**Second Coming 1835-1908 **believed like the traditional Muslims that Jesus did not die on Cross but God Allah raised him unto himself until God Allah informed him by Word from God Allah that Jesus died naturally and peacefully and He only raised his soul , not the body unto Him.
Traditional Muslims also do not believe in your Mahdi’s claims. A Mahdi and Messiah cannot possibly make 2 guesses and then settle for a final guess which still has unexplainable answers as to why Jesus is buried in so many other places.
May be you understand now.
No, sorry i do not and neither will anyone. Muslim or non-Muslim.
 
Originally Posted by wina:
How do you know that Jesus and Mary had gone to India? from where you got the source about it?
Hi

I have written so many posts on this subject in this forum, you may read them plus you may access my blog.

To start with I would like you to read a book “Jesus in India”:alislam.org/library/books…dia/index.html

I mention here its preface only for your and the other memebers benefit.

Jesus in India is an English version of Masih Hindustan mein, an Urdu treatise written by the Holy Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835 - 1908).

The main thesis expounded in the treatise is Jesus’ escape from an ignominious death on the Cross and his subsequent journey to India in quest of the lost tribes of Israel whom he had to gather into his fold as mentioned in the New Testament.

Abundant evidence has been furnished from Christian as well as Muslim Scriptures, old medical books and books of history, including ancient Buddhistic records, to illustrate the theme.

Starting upon his journey from Jerusalem and passing from thence through Nasibus and Iran, Jesus is shown to have reached Afghanistan, where he met the Jews who had settled there after their deliverance from the bondage of Nebuchadnezzar.

From Afghanistan Jesus went to Kashmir, where some Israelite tribes had also settled. He made this place his home and here he died. His tomb has been traced and found in Khanyar Street, Srinagar.

In the section dealing with the evidence adduced from ancient Buddhistic records, Hazrat Ahmad has resolved a question which, owing to its difficult nature, has for a long time confounded many a Western writer.

These writers have been baffled by the striking resemblance that exists between Christian and Buddhistic teachings and between the life events of both Jesus and Buddha as revealed in their respective Scriptures.

Some of these writers hold the view that Buddhistic teachings must somehow have reached Palestine and been assimilated by Jesus in his own sermons. But there is absolutely no historical proof to support this theory.

A Russian traveller named Nicolas Notovitch stayed for quite some time with Lamas in Tibet and had their sacred books translated for him. He is of the opinion that Jesus must have come to Tibet before the crucifixion and gone back to Palestine after having imbibed Buddhistic teachings. This also is a mere statement unsupported by reliable historical evidence.

Repudiating both these views, Hazrat Ahmad writes that Jesus came to India not before the event of the Cross but after it and that it was not he who borrowed Buddhistic teachings but the followers of Buddha who seem to have reproduced the entire picture of the Gospels in their books.

According to Hazrat Ahmad Jesus also visited Tibet during his travels in India in search of the lost tribes of Israel. He preached his messages to Buddhistic monks, some of whom were converted Jews. The followers of Buddha were deeply impressed by his teachings and took him to be the manifestation of Buddha and their Promised Teacher. With faith in him as their Master, they mixed his teachings with their own records and ascribed it all to the Buddha. Ample evidence in support of this is furnished from ancient Buddhistic records.

Masih Hindustan mein was written in 1899 and it marks the end of an era in which for centuries Muslims and Christians had believed in the ascension of Jesus to Heaven. It being the first book ever written on the subject with such a rational approach, the book produced a most profound impact.

Its arguments were broadcast and in the past half-century it has achieved remarkable success in divesting Jesus of false appurtenances of divinity and in presenting him to the world merely as a divine prophet as he actually was.

In Muslim circles the effect has been so marked that the Rector of the Al-Azhar University in Cairo issued a Fatwa (verdict) that according to the Holy Quran Jesus had died a natural death. Its influence on the Christian mind has also been greatly disturbing.

As stated in the Introduction and also at the end of the book, Hazrat Ahmad intended to write a second part in which he would have given, besides some additional proofs of Jesus’ journey to India, a comparative evaluation of the teachings of Islam and Christianity with some cogent arguments in proof of the truth of Islam as well as of his own claim to be the Promised Messiah.

Though no other book among his writings bears this title, yet Hazrat Ahmad has discussed thoroughly all these issues with many more important ones concerning the truth of Islam, of his own claim and of the death of Jesus in quite a number of books which he wrote after the above-mentioned book.

The present English translation was made by Qazi Abdul Hamid, formerly editor of a weekly, The Sunrise, Lahore, in which it appeared serially during 1938-39. It was first published in book form in 1944 by Nashr-o-Ishaat, Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiyya, Qadian.

Besides others who have assisted us in any way in the production of this book, our thanks are due to Mr. Mauloud Ahmad Khan, a former Imam of the London Mosque, who went to great pains to gather relevant quotations from the original books which have been referred to by Hazrat Ahmad in support of his thesis. The quotations have been attached to the book in the form of an appendix.

Vakil-ut-Tabshir, Tahrik-i-Jadid, Rabwah, Pakistan
MAY 1962

The book is not lengthy; small 107 pages in all. You will find answer to your queries and then we could discuss on every aspect as you like.

I think it is reasonable.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks
 
Masih Hindustan mein was written in 1899 and it marks the end of an era in which for centuries Muslims and Christians had believed in the ascension of Jesus to Heaven. It being the first book ever written on the subject with such a rational approach, the book produced a most profound impact.

Its arguments were broadcast and in the past half-century it has achieved remarkable success in divesting Jesus of false appurtenances of divinity and in presenting him to the world merely as a divine prophet as he actually was.

In Muslim circles the effect has been so marked that the Rector of the Al-Azhar University in Cairo issued a Fatwa (verdict) that according to the Holy Quran Jesus had died a natural death. Its influence on the Christian mind has also been greatly disturbing.
Not even the very least. We are not disturbed with this news because it is simply trash, conjured by people without any proof. If this is truly as recent as nineteenth century you would expect concrete, tangible and touchable evidence that the era can produce. You would expect even pictures. As it is you do not even able to point to us the so-called grave. Your own kind do not even believe you. Maybe you can con Christians with other things but not this. Your saying that Mary was with Jesus was shot at even before you can get up.

You can go on here and we tolerate this nonsence because at least you speak with some information about Islam. For that you are useful and of course we welcome you.
 
paarsurrey, do you honestly believe some Muslim rector’s fatwa makes us shake in our boots? You yourself have mentioned that all the statements from writers have no supported evidence or historical proof. Yet, you continue to believe in a self-made Messiah and his claims.
 
Slight correction. 😃 I was born and raised in Singapore - my parents emigrated from India to Singapore. I do however take frequent trips to India to visit relatives. There is a small Ahmadi community in Singapore although (lucky for them) the Muslim population here are pretty tolerant of them. Our country has zero tolerance towards racial or religious bigotry - which is why the Jehovah Witnesses and Unification Church is banned here (for breaching state laws in the past). Hopefully the Ahmadi’s will not follow in their footsteps.
 
So far I have not get the answer asked by Cathopologist in the OP. As far as I know, the question is why the ProphetMessenger revised his claim regarding the tomb of Jesus.
 
So far I have not get the answer asked by Cathopologist in the OP. As far as I know, the question is why the ProphetMessenger revised his claim regarding the tomb of Jesus.
swariffin, it seems to be same thing as Jesus said “I cannot of myself do or say anything unless told by the father.” It is always like that. The messengers of Allah do not make a move or say anything unless ordered (informed) by God.
 
**There was a question about the place of burial of Jesus. The reply has been given that Jesus is buried in Kashmir (India). Now it is upto the friends to investigate the matter further. Of course, not many muslims believe that. The Christians and Jews will also not believe that.

It is sure that the news of his burial in Kashmir was first given by the Mirza sahib in India in year 1998 (approx). The problem is many fold. The christians do not believe that Jesus ever died. They believe in resurrection and thereafter, a long and perfect life for Jesus in union with father. Taht is the first obstacle in the burial of Jesus.

jesus has to die and then he can be buried in any place. Since christians believe that Jesus is living, there can be no burial.
The Muslims also believe that Jesus did not die but he was taken up alive. So there is no question of burial of Jesus for the maniline majority muslims.

But the news of the burial of Jesus cannot be ignored because it is given by some one (Ahmad) who said that God talks to him and gives him the news of the unseen things of the past, present and future.
Please yourself.**
 
Hi

I have written so many posts on this subject in this forum, you may read them plus you may access my blog.

To start with I would like you to read a book “Jesus in India”:alislam.org/library/books…dia/index.html

I mention here its preface only for your and the other memebers benefit.

Jesus in India is an English version of Masih Hindustan mein, an Urdu treatise written by the Holy Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835 - 1908).

The main thesis expounded in the treatise is Jesus’ escape from an ignominious death on the Cross and his subsequent journey to India in quest of the lost tribes of Israel whom he had to gather into his fold as mentioned in the New Testament.

Abundant evidence has been furnished from Christian as well as Muslim Scriptures, old medical books and books of history, including ancient Buddhistic records, to illustrate the theme.

Starting upon his journey from Jerusalem and passing from thence through Nasibus and Iran, Jesus is shown to have reached Afghanistan, where he met the Jews who had settled there after their deliverance from the bondage of Nebuchadnezzar.

From Afghanistan Jesus went to Kashmir, where some Israelite tribes had also settled. He made this place his home and here he died. His tomb has been traced and found in Khanyar Street, Srinagar.

In the section dealing with the evidence adduced from ancient Buddhistic records, Hazrat Ahmad has resolved a question which, owing to its difficult nature, has for a long time confounded many a Western writer.

These writers have been baffled by the striking resemblance that exists between Christian and Buddhistic teachings and between the life events of both Jesus and Buddha as revealed in their respective Scriptures.

Some of these writers hold the view that Buddhistic teachings must somehow have reached Palestine and been assimilated by Jesus in his own sermons. But there is absolutely no historical proof to support this theory.

A Russian traveller named Nicolas Notovitch stayed for quite some time with Lamas in Tibet and had their sacred books translated for him. He is of the opinion that Jesus must have come to Tibet before the crucifixion and gone back to Palestine after having imbibed Buddhistic teachings. This also is a mere statement unsupported by reliable historical evidence.

Repudiating both these views, Hazrat Ahmad writes that Jesus came to India not before the event of the Cross but after it and that it was not he who borrowed Buddhistic teachings but the followers of Buddha who seem to have reproduced the entire picture of the Gospels in their books.

According to Hazrat Ahmad Jesus also visited Tibet during his travels in India in search of the lost tribes of Israel. He preached his messages to Buddhistic monks, some of whom were converted Jews. The followers of Buddha were deeply impressed by his teachings and took him to be the manifestation of Buddha and their Promised Teacher. With faith in him as their Master, they mixed his teachings with their own records and ascribed it all to the Buddha. Ample evidence in support of this is furnished from ancient Buddhistic records.

Masih Hindustan mein was written in 1899 and it marks the end of an era in which for centuries Muslims and Christians had believed in the ascension of Jesus to Heaven. It being the first book ever written on the subject with such a rational approach, the book produced a most profound impact.

Its arguments were broadcast and in the past half-century it has achieved remarkable success in divesting Jesus of false appurtenances of divinity and in presenting him to the world merely as a divine prophet as he actually was.

In Muslim circles the effect has been so marked that the Rector of the Al-Azhar University in Cairo issued a Fatwa (verdict) that according to the Holy Quran Jesus had died a natural death. Its influence on the Christian mind has also been greatly disturbing.

As stated in the Introduction and also at the end of the book, Hazrat Ahmad intended to write a second part in which he would have given, besides some additional proofs of Jesus’ journey to India, a comparative evaluation of the teachings of Islam and Christianity with some cogent arguments in proof of the truth of Islam as well as of his own claim to be the Promised Messiah.

Though no other book among his writings bears this title, yet Hazrat Ahmad has discussed thoroughly all these issues with many more important ones concerning the truth of Islam, of his own claim and of the death of Jesus in quite a number of books which he wrote after the above-mentioned book.

The present English translation was made by Qazi Abdul Hamid, formerly editor of a weekly, The Sunrise, Lahore, in which it appeared serially during 1938-39. It was first published in book form in 1944 by Nashr-o-Ishaat, Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiyya, Qadian.

Besides others who have assisted us in any way in the production of this book, our thanks are due to Mr. Mauloud Ahmad Khan, a former Imam of the London Mosque, who went to great pains to gather relevant quotations from the original books which have been referred to by Hazrat Ahmad in support of his thesis. The quotations have been attached to the book in the form of an appendix.

Vakil-ut-Tabshir, Tahrik-i-Jadid, Rabwah, Pakistan
MAY 1962

The book is not lengthy; small 107 pages in all. You will find answer to your queries and then we could discuss on every aspect as you like.

I think it is reasonable.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddha and Krishna.

Thanks
Hey, my dear brother. You told me that you based your belief on Quran. Where in Quran or Hadits show that Jesus went to India? If you believe those Hot Stuff you mentioned above, then what it is called as Mythical.
 
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