Alabama - God's country

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mythbuster1 said:
I considered religious sisters carrying surplus IVF embryos to term as a possible solution for the problem of abandoned embryos left frozen. Has the Church even considered this scenario?
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  1. Using religious sisters or nuns as incubators is a horrible idea.
  2. Why not couples who desire children? If it’s wrong for them, it’s wrong for women religious, too.
  3. We really are as slouching toward Gilead.
 
Aside from two small websites and a post I don’t see it happening.
 
My logic was that “only become pregnant through her husband” doesn’t apply to religious sisters, and that rescuing these orphans is an act of charity. The fact that this has sparked such a backlash illustrates just how messed up IVF is.
 
mythbuster1 said:
rescuing these orphans is an act of charity.
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Unfortunately, keeping them on ice is the best we can do right now. Even if we had an artificial uterus, it would be incredibly controversial.
 
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mythbuster1 said:
My logic was that “only become pregnant through her husband” doesn’t apply to religious sisters
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Okay, how about single women who want children. No husband to worry about…

If it was religious sisters, do they give consent or do they have to be obedient to their superior. Abuse of power already happens in religious communities; I can’t imagine how you think this woold work out. 😬
 
Peeps said:
But if someone is not truly conscious of something, how can it possibly be corrected?
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It’s the discussion about this that gets so very messy. The problem really is about assumptions, presumptions, indifference and defensiveness. I’m not looking to have further discussion on this topic, that’s not what this tread is about.

I might have some insight on the hair though. Hair is a big topic in the Black community and has lots of implications in how it is worn that go well beyond most other people’s experiences. I have no idea exactly what happened, but you may have tapped into some resentment about how black women are unfairly judged for how they wear their hair.
 
IVF is messed up, but being a surrogate is also unethical.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I am an African-American woman. I have NEVER met another African american woman who was offended by hair flipping! What in the world?
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Thank you! I’m glad to know that, and I suspect that the organizers of that workshop found one person who’s offended and extrapolated it to “all African American women are offended!”
 
Nah, I don’t think there was even one person who was offended by that.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I wouldn’t have dared ask for directions at that station. I’m not too proud to admit I would have been terrified to do so. I’m African American, and I lived in Appalachia for several years. I had the misfortune of having people tell me things like “If I were you, I’d get back in that car and keep driving”. I didn’t stick around to find out what would have happened if I didn’t get back in my car.

I also had a very uncomfortable conversation with an “ex-klansman” about how mountain folks weren’t racist. In his words, “If you stick with your own kind, you won’t have any problems.” He then told me a story about how they had to “run off” a “colored fella” who came down there talking about integration and civil rights…
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And I don’t blame you one bit! Better to be wise and stay alive.

Sometimes, when there is a group of people, they have more nerve than if there is just one of them, and they egg each other on and dare each other until the decision is made to do whatever awful thing that they would never do on their own. Sad, but true.
 
While there would be no sin is simply adopting a frozen embryo, implanting, and raising the child as your own… it creates an evil market.

Here are the issues with your idea regarding using Religious Sisters or anyone else to birth frozen embryos:
  1. the embryos are legally tied to the biological parents. What is to stop biological parents from selling their kids under the table or on the black market to women who want to raise them? Even if there are laws against it, it wouldn’t be unheard of for people to pay select individuals (celebrities and pro athletes) for the right to adopt their embryos.
  2. even if most biological parents didn’t sell their embryos, supply and demand would allow the doctors who do the implantation to charge REDICULOUS fees to do it.
  3. it also would allow Drs to market and charge a premium for a child that matches the adoptive parent’s criteria.
  4. what would stop doctors from basically becoming breaders?
So for #1 - #4 it allows human lives to be bought and sold again.

There are millions (if not soon to be billions) of frozen embryos. Finding enough people to adopt all of them is not realistic.

Right now there are not enough people on the left wanting to adopt frozen embryos because the left (1) doesn’t have many kids to begin with and (2) has a tendency to adopt from third world counties when they do adopt kids.

If pro-life people start adopting frozen embryos, it will allow the unethical to invest in a new industry and create designer babies and effectively sell humans again.

Remember, because of the left’s love of abortion, they could never fight against the sale of humans, because they don’t consider embryos to be human.

But we pro-lifers do consider embryos to be human.

So it’s a very slippery slope. If we start encouraging embryo adoption, it gives the unethical doctors and unethical parents the ability to grow a sinful market to sell babies and remove the unitive act completely from the birthing process.

It could ALSO potentially hurt our genetic diversity because you could potentially have thousands of siblings born and living about having no idea if they are marrying or fornicating with a sibling or close cousin.

It’s just a horrible nightmare waiting to happen and that can of worms should NOT be opened by ProLifers.

I pray this makes sense.

God Bless
 
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Pattylt said:
It’s hard to do. When I was young we were driving to Ohio and stopped in Georgia at a motel. We were told We don’t serve Jews here. And it wasn’t said kindly…we quickly left.

These little experiences last a lifetime and as much as Georgia is a beautiful state with wonderful people, I don’t know that I could ever choose to live there.

I think the same is with blacks. If they experienced an overt racist remark, they can try and even succeed at forgiving…but will never forget. We all need to strive for any minority to never have one of those experiences. We may not succeed, but we must try.
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But this is everywhere and I would argue more so in the north than south today (and I live in the north)

My mom is Puerto Rican. But I have an Italian last name and an English first name.

Very few people know that I’m part Puerto Rican unless I tell them.

I was in New Jersey in the early 2000s where a bunch of liberals started trash talking Puerto Rican people because of Puerto Rican heritage day at Six Flags Great Adventure (which is in NJ).

To me, I would much rather know someone was a bigot up front and stay clear of them rather than have a bigot being nice to my face but then behind my back doing everything they can to keep me down.

—-

Also I think it’s interesting that in many southern new suburban developments it’s not rare to see the suburban development to be mixed. White suburbanites living next to black suburbanites, etc.

But in the north, that rarely happens vs the south. Heck, New York still allows co-op boards to review your finances to determine whether they want to keep you out of their building. That shouldn’t be up to the co-op board, it should be up to a Morgage lender to determine whether you can afford the home. Not a co-op board who can use the interview process and your financials to keep “undesirables” from buying an appartment.

So in my view - the north is currently far more segregated potentially more racist than the south.
 
I agree that I’d rather hear overt racism to covert and know who to avoid. But, if a minority person never hears an overt racism remark then their perception is that they didn’t experience racism whether true or false. If that can continue (in my perfect little world in my head) then you have someone that grows up without racism rearing it’s ugly little head. It allows society to eventually forget to be racist.

Yeah, we ain’t there yet,but the younger generation is much more accepting in general than the older generation and I really do think racism will be restricted to little pockets that fear to express their racist thoughts…and I think that’s a good thing.

I don’t have a large experience of city suburbs but those I have seen seem to be more mixed in the new ones in the north, south and west. It varies by cities but the general trend seems to be more mixing. That is certainly my experience in the mountain west! I’ve never been to NY so can’t address that area.
 
Pattylt said:
I don’t have a large experience of city suburbs but those I have seen seem to be more mixed in the new ones in the north, south and west.
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In my experience, the northeast is very segregated vs other parts of the country.
 
I always saw the Church’s support of nuns and religious sisters as, at least in part, a powerful statement that a woman’s life has value completely independent of her reproductive capacity. And that statement would be entirely negated if nuns and religious sisters were to be used as “incubators.”
 
phil19034 said:
It could ALSO potentially hurt our genetic diversity because you could potentially have thousands of siblings born and living about having no idea if they are marrying or fornicating with a sibling or close cousin.
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I’m going to go someplace with this that I hesitate to go, and I am not one to “hesitate to go places”… and keep in mind I am speaking theoretically, there is no earthly way each and every one of these “snowflake babies” could be saved and be allowed to come to term…

But is it better for them to be born, and allow for the possibility of unintentional incest in their future (which could be mitigated by DNA testing), or is it better for them to be thawed and expire?

The mass production of embryos and freezing them is a monstrous technology, and this is yet one more illustration of why that is so.

Can we get back to talking about Alabama?
 
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