Alcohol at church functions - ok or not?

[Bluegoat]

Lutheran pastors have either a Bible or a beer tankard in their hand. Their understanding would be the same as Catholics’.

Amber

I got my husband some of these Lutheran beer glasses for Christmas:

http://oldlutheran.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/sinbld_gls.jpg

 

[Cat]

My pastor no longer allows beer or wine at parish dinners, pig roasts, etc. In the past some people drank immoderately, and even though we believe it is okay to drink moderately, obviously there are some people who have problems.

So, the ones who can drink moderately can do so at home. To keep the parish socials pleasant, no drinking alcoholic beverages is permitted.

Bless your pastor! He gets it. Souls will be saved, marriages will be strengthened, and families will remain intact because of his wise and courageous action. Also, Protestants will be converted.

I want to go to your parish!

 

[loneviking]

Trust me, LCMS and Lutherans in general are NOT Pietists! Luther and crew hammered out quite a few doctrinal points over pints of ale. Isnt’ wine served at the Lords’ table? Why then should wine not also be available at the evening supper table?

I think what happened is that someone, who was not Lutheran and had no idea what Lutheranism is, went to a Lutheran campout and was shocked to find out how ‘catholic’ we are!

As I’ve often said, we Lutherans get rocks thrown at us from the Catholics for being too protestant; and rocks from the Prots for being too Catholic!

 

[nickybr38]

Trust me, LCMS and Lutherans in general are NOT Pietists! Luther and crew hammered out quite a few doctrinal points over pints of ale. Isnt’ wine served at the Lords’ table? Why then should wine not also be available at the evening supper table?

I think what happened is that someone, who was not Lutheran and had no idea what Lutheranism is, went to a Lutheran campout and was shocked to find out how ‘catholic’ we are!

As I’ve often said, we Lutherans get rocks thrown at us from the Catholics for being too protestant; and rocks from the Prots for being too Catholic!

Trust me, that’s not what happened. Her pastor has told her that drinking is a sin and that he plans to call a council meeting to address things. I think that’s why she’s so shocked. She can’t figure out why everyone is going against what the pastor teaches.

 

[loneviking]

Trust me, that’s not what happened. Her pastor has told her that drinking is a sin and that he plans to call a council meeting to address things. I think that’s why she’s so shocked. She can’t figure out why everyone is going against what the pastor teaches.

Wow…now I’m terribly confused. I’ve never heard of a Lutheran congregation that teaches that drinking alcohol is a sin. What synod is this?

 

[nickybr38]

Wow…now I’m terribly confused. I’ve never heard of a Lutheran congregation that teaches that drinking alcohol is a sin. What synod is this?

I have NO idea. I can’t get it out of her. All I know is that her pastor is new and he’s from Korea.

 

[cradlecatholic5]

S’not a big deal to me. We’re not puritans who have to fear everything. If you’re drunk that’s an issue and Father would speak to you about it, but if you’re enjoying something legal in moderation, what’s the harm? We also smoke sometimes. We eat trans fats!

Rawb, I like your thinking. I agree.

Recently at my grandson’s baseball game a man in behind me came back from the concession stand and said “THEY SERVE BEER!” … I think we might have a convert!

 

[JonNC]

Wow…now I’m terribly confused. I’ve never heard of a Lutheran congregation that teaches that drinking alcohol is a sin. What synod is this?

What synod it is isn’t the question. the question is, where in the Lutheran Confessions is the teaching?

Jon

 

[saved4sure]

yes if they adhere to local civil law regulations. Since there is no prohibition in the 10 commandments or Church law against moderate use of alcohol, there can be no wrongdoing when it is served at a church function–beer tent at the parish festival, wine at a parish dinner etc.

It is a huge leap from “is it appropriate to serve alcohol” to “is it appropriate to get drunk or to allow one individual to imbibe enough to get drunk” at a church function. The latter is wrong in all circumstances, and if they let the guy get in a car in that condition they could face a legal liability as well.

Can we get drunk without alcohol? No alcohol = sobriety! You open the door to under age drinking as well as aiding those who have a problem with alcohol consumption. Why tempt?

 

[JonNC]

Can we get drunk without alcohol? No alcohol = sobriety! You open the door to under age drinking as well as aiding those who have a problem with alcohol consumption. Why tempt?

Is the same true if someone overweight? Should we then not serve food at a parish function, so as not to tempt someone into gluttony?

Jon

 

[Alix1912]

Bless your pastor! He gets it. Souls will be saved, marriages will be strengthened, and families will remain intact because of his wise and courageous action. Also, Protestants will be converted.

I want to go to your parish!

Trust me, LCMS and Lutherans in general are NOT Pietists! Luther and crew hammered out quite a few doctrinal points over pints of ale. Isnt’ wine served at the Lords’ table? Why then should wine not also be available at the evening supper table?

I think what happened is that someone, who was not Lutheran and had no idea what Lutheranism is, went to a Lutheran campout and was shocked to find out how ‘catholic’ we are!

As I’ve often said, we Lutherans get rocks thrown at us from the Catholics for being too protestant; and rocks from the Prots for being too Catholic!

So true…I get this all the time.

 

[Cat]

Is the same true if someone overweight? Should we then not serve food at a parish function, so as not to tempt someone into gluttony?

Jon

As someone who is obese, and has lost 75 pounds over the last two years (diet and exercise), and has about 30 pounds to go to be at the top of the insurance weight charts, I would say that it would be charitable and kind and thoughtful and up-to-date if churches could always offer healthy and good-tasting alternatives to the traditional “covered dish suppers.”

I grew up in Protestant churches that held potlucks (covered dish suppers) and catered-in “banquets” on a regular basis. 40 years ago, most of us could eat fattening noodle casseroles, sugary jello salads, rich vegetable dishes, sweet punches (with sherbet, of course!) and the luscious homemade desserts, without gaining an ounce.

We were all much more active, and this kind of rich food was an infrequent treat. We didn’t have to contend with restaurants and grocery store foods that are more chemicals than real food, and sedentary jobs and lifestyles.

I believe that churches should take all this into account, and do what they can to encourage good choices at any congregational meals.

This is also good stewardship of their people, as diabetes is reaching epidemic numbers in the U.S. Why would churches want to contribute to killing off their members?

E.g., when the Knights of Columbus have their pancake breakfasts, why not make sure that fresh fruit is available, and a whole-grain version of the pancakes? Also Canadian bacon, which is wonderfully healthy and lo-cal and very yummy. Perhaps if this type of pancake breakfast were offered, even more people would attend!

E.g., when there is a catered meal, make sure that there is a vege tray or green salad (not just potato salad, macaroni salad, and cole-slaw), and make sure that there is fresh fruit instead of jello-covered fruit, and make sure that there is a lo-carb main dish, e.g., chicken breasts (no sauce) or shaved beef (no gravy), or a plain fish filet. Make sure that all the salad dressings are on the side and that there is some other alternative than sugary, fatty ranch dressing. Make sure that the gravy and other sauces are on the side.

And why not serve something low-fat for dessert, e.g., angel food cake with fresh fruit (or even frozen fruit, which is cheaper)? Or a scoop of sherbet or sorbet? Or some kind of low-fat, low-sugar pudding?

 

[dprewett]

Bless your pastor! He gets it. Souls will be saved, marriages will be strengthened, and families will remain intact because of his wise and courageous action. Also, Protestants will be converted.

I want to go to your parish!

why must people push their beliefs on other. Drinking at functions at our parish has never been a problem. Most likely the pastor of this parish has a drinking problem so then nobody must enjoy an adult beverage. It is my understanding that some protestants do not allow drinking because the Man that started there church had drinking problems. I think the above pastor is not courageous or wise simply for giving into people like you and outlawing something Jesus himself had no problem with. So God himself allowed people at a wedding to have more drinks and have a merry time but it is a pastors job to deny others the same thing.

 

[nickybr38]

As someone who is obese, and has lost 75 pounds over the last two years (diet and exercise), and has about 30 pounds to go to be at the top of the insurance weight charts, I would say that it would be charitable and kind and thoughtful and up-to-date if churches could always offer healthy and good-tasting alternatives to the traditional “covered dish suppers.”

I grew up in Protestant churches that held potlucks (covered dish suppers) and catered-in “banquets” on a regular basis. 40 years ago, most of us could eat fattening noodle casseroles, sugary jello salads, rich vegetable dishes, sweet punches (with sherbet, of course!) and the luscious homemade desserts, without gaining an ounce.

We were all much more active, and this kind of rich food was an infrequent treat. We didn’t have to contend with restaurants and grocery store foods that are more chemicals than real food, and sedentary jobs and lifestyles.

I believe that churches should take all this into account, and do what they can to encourage good choices at any congregational meals.

This is also good stewardship of their people, as diabetes is reaching epidemic numbers in the U.S. Why would churches want to contribute to killing off their members?

E.g., when the Knights of Columbus have their pancake breakfasts, why not make sure that fresh fruit is available, and a whole-grain version of the pancakes? Also Canadian bacon, which is wonderfully healthy and lo-cal and very yummy. Perhaps if this type of pancake breakfast were offered, even more people would attend!

E.g., when there is a catered meal, make sure that there is a vege tray or green salad (not just potato salad, macaroni salad, and cole-slaw), and make sure that there is fresh fruit instead of jello-covered fruit, and make sure that there is a lo-carb main dish, e.g., chicken breasts (no sauce) or shaved beef (no gravy), or a plain fish filet. Make sure that all the salad dressings are on the side and that there is some other alternative than sugary, fatty ranch dressing. Make sure that the gravy and other sauces are on the side.

And why not serve something low-fat for dessert, e.g., angel food cake with fresh fruit (or even frozen fruit, which is cheaper)? Or a scoop of sherbet or sorbet? Or some kind of low-fat, low-sugar pudding?

I think what you’re saying is not that these things are bad (alcohol, food) but that we should show our struggling Christian brothers and sisters (alcoholics, those struggling with weight issues) some kindness and thoughtfulness by providing alternatives. Am I right?

I lean towards if a church function is going to serve alcohol they should warn people ahead of time so that those who DO have problems know to avoid the event (IE: alcoholics, those who come from abusive homes and are uncomfortable being around alcohol).

 

[nickybr38]

why must people push their beliefs on other. Drinking at functions at our parish has never been a problem. Most likely the pastor of this parish has a drinking problem so then nobody must enjoy an adult beverage. It is my understanding that some protestants do not allow drinking because the Man that started there church had drinking problems. I think the above pastor is not courageous or wise simply for giving into people like you and outlawing something Jesus himself had no problem with. So God himself allowed people at a wedding to have more drinks and have a merry time but it is a pastors job to deny others the same thing.

In Scripture St. Paul says that those who partake of food and drink should not look down on those who do not. He also says we should not cause our brother to stumble because of what we eat.

Just a thought.

 

[JonNC]

As someone who is obese, and has lost 75 pounds over the last two years (diet and exercise), and has about 30 pounds to go to be at the top of the insurance weight charts, I would say that it would be charitable and kind and thoughtful and up-to-date if churches could always offer healthy and good-tasting alternatives to the traditional “covered dish suppers.”

I grew up in Protestant churches that held potlucks (covered dish suppers) and catered-in “banquets” on a regular basis. 40 years ago, most of us could eat fattening noodle casseroles, sugary jello salads, rich vegetable dishes, sweet punches (with sherbet, of course!) and the luscious homemade desserts, without gaining an ounce.

We were all much more active, and this kind of rich food was an infrequent treat. We didn’t have to contend with restaurants and grocery store foods that are more chemicals than real food, and sedentary jobs and lifestyles.

I believe that churches should take all this into account, and do what they can to encourage good choices at any congregational meals.

This is also good stewardship of their people, as diabetes is reaching epidemic numbers in the U.S. Why would churches want to contribute to killing off their members?

E.g., when the Knights of Columbus have their pancake breakfasts, why not make sure that fresh fruit is available, and a whole-grain version of the pancakes? Also Canadian bacon, which is wonderfully healthy and lo-cal and very yummy. Perhaps if this type of pancake breakfast were offered, even more people would attend!

E.g., when there is a catered meal, make sure that there is a vege tray or green salad (not just potato salad, macaroni salad, and cole-slaw), and make sure that there is fresh fruit instead of jello-covered fruit, and make sure that there is a lo-carb main dish, e.g., chicken breasts (no sauce) or shaved beef (no gravy), or a plain fish filet. Make sure that all the salad dressings are on the side and that there is some other alternative than sugary, fatty ranch dressing. Make sure that the gravy and other sauces are on the side.

And why not serve something low-fat for dessert, e.g., angel food cake with fresh fruit (or even frozen fruit, which is cheaper)? Or a scoop of sherbet or sorbet? Or some kind of low-fat, low-sugar pudding?

I completely agree with this. As an elder, charge with assisting the pastor to maintain the spiritual life of the parish and its members, this reminds me to keep this in mind. Thanks.

By the same token, allowing adults to have a beer at a Church cookout, and making sure they do not over-indulge, is precisely the same thing.

Finally, I give thanks that the Spirit is leading you in your efforts to remain healthy.

Jon

 

[cradlecatholic5]

dprewett - well said! :dancing:

 

[Graubo3]

A very distraught Luthern friend of mine came to me with a question that I wasn’t sure how to answer.

She immediately retreated to her own tent and stayed away from everyone for the weekend because she was uncomfortable being around drunkenness and more importantly alcohol in general. Another member who is a struggling alcoholic stayed with her because he too was not comfortable being around alcohol.

I think that the other members could be more distraught over her so cavalierly shacking up with a guy in a tent for the whole weekend. Wonder what the other members thought was going on in there.

Peace, Graubo

 

[Contarini]

That’s a good question.

I don’t know where to draw the line so I don’t drink at all. Seems to me one drink is enough to set me over that line but I suppose for others it could be different.

As to Alix1912, as I said I know nothing about Luther’s teachings but I do know that this girl’s pastor is strongly against drinking at all. I haven’t been able to pin down which sect of Luthernism this is but I do know they seem to be extremely strict about several things. They teach the real presence, for one thing (no symbolism involved at all) and are strong believers in confession.

That’s actually surprising. The more high-church confessional Lutherans are usually quite unabashed in their affirmation of the legitimacy of drinking alcohol. Where you do find anti-alcohol attitudes among Lutherans, I’d expect to find it among the more low-church Pietist types who are influenced by the broader currents of American evangelical culture.

Note: it is entirely unfair to use the word “Puritan” to describe these attitudes. Puritans had no problem with drinking alcohol (within the usual limits of Christian morality). Victorian evangelicals claimed to be the heirs of the Puritans, and unfortunately their opponents took them at their word.

Edwin

 

[Cat]

I think what you’re saying is not that these things are bad (alcohol, food) but that we should show our struggling Christian brothers and sisters (alcoholics, those struggling with weight issues) some kindness and thoughtfulness by providing alternatives. Am I right?

I lean towards if a church function is going to serve alcohol they should warn people ahead of time so that those who DO have problems know to avoid the event (IE: alcoholics, those who come from abusive homes and are uncomfortable being around alcohol).

I definitely agree with this. People should be given advance notice.