Alcohol Drinking - a NEW perspective?

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malachi_a_serva said:
1 Billion Muslims don’t drink.
1 Billion Hindus don’t drink
1 Billion Buddists don’t drink.
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I understand your point and think it a good one, Christians do need to set a better example; but, this is only a generalization.
I have been to areas with Muslims and yes, they drink though perhaps the alcohol is not always as readily available in most areas.
Most of the reason that these three religions do not drink are because their governments have outlawed such things. Still, like any religion, they have people who are not faithful to their own beliefs. Just like in Christianity, all religions have those that truly devoted to their belief system whether they be Buddist, Taoist, Muslim, Hindu etc., and those that disobey and are not practicing.
Alcohol is not inherently evil, however, Christians should (as the Old Testament states), stay away from stong drink and be moderate with what they do.
Satan does perhaps attack the members of the True Faith the most as far as tempting the individual to disobey…The Christians reported to have alcohol problems and trouble drinking in excess are not (acting as) true Christians but that is how it looks to the outside world…all they see is the sign “Christian”.
Muhatma Ghandi even remarked about this. Ghandi had a great respect for Christ and the Gospel but remarked, “The problem with Christianity is all the Christians”.
Indeed, we (Christians) need to strive for personal holiness…
 
All of the texts quoted are related to drunkeness, not to drinking per se and as such they do not prohibit but advise.
Remember, Psalm 146 blesses God for the fruit of the vine which gladdens men’s hearts. A little wine is a good thing; over-indulgence is not.

Matthew
 
drafdog said:
All of the texts quoted are related to drunkeness, not to drinking per se and as such they do not prohibit but advise.
Remember, Psalm 146 blesses God for the fruit of the vine which gladdens men’s hearts. **A little wine is a good thing; over-indulgence is not.
**
Matthew
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And the choir sings, “AMEN”!!!
 
Primitive said:
I understand your point and think it a good one, Christians do need to set a better example; but, this is only a generalization.
I have been to areas with Muslims and yes, they drink though perhaps the alcohol is not always as readily available in most areas.
Most of the reason that these three religions do not drink are because their governments have outlawed such things. Still, like any religion, they have people who are not faithful to their own beliefs. Just like in Christianity, all religions have those that truly devoted to their belief system whether they be Buddist, Taoist, Muslim, Hindu etc., and those that disobey and are not practicing.
Alcohol is not inherently evil, however, Christians should (as the Old Testament states), stay away from stong drink and be moderate with what they do.
Satan does perhaps attack the members of the True Faith the most as far as tempting the individual to disobey…The Christians reported to have alcohol problems and trouble drinking in excess are not (acting as) true Christians but that is how it looks to the outside world…all they see is the sign “Christian”.
Muhatma Ghandi even remarked about this. Ghandi had a great respect for Christ and the Gospel but remarked, “The problem with Christianity is all the Christians”.
Indeed, we (Christians) need to strive for personal holiness…
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I should add that the many in the time of Jesus called Him a glutton and a drunk, however Jesus did not drink excessivly. Those who accuse Him of such crimes were just as modern day fundamentalists who thin that even the smallest amount is sinful even if it causes no drunkeness.

The Old Testament also does condone alcohol moderately in the books of wisdom.
This is only one of several examples:
Ecclesiasticus 31:32 “Wine taken with sobriety is equal lire to men: if thou drink it moderately, thou shalt be sober.”
 
i’ve always followed aquinas’ idea of drinking usque ad hilaritatem and specifically not to the point of forfeiting use of reason … which i do … not regularly though.

what i’d say to aquinas is: sometimes it’s not hilarious until you start running into doors.😛
God would deny us nothing that can be used to our benefit
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does that include marijuana?
 
malachi_a_serva said:
T

mY STUDIES INDICATE WINE IS REFERRED TO IN 2 STATES - I am sure you all heard it before - wine “unfermented” and wime “fermented”. .
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Even if this is true, linguistically there is no good way to tell when the Bible is referring to one and when it is referring to the other. The OT has two words “tirosh” (new wine) and “'ayin” (wine). 19th-century writers tried to argue that the former is non-alcoholic and the latter alcoholic. But it doesn’t work. There are places where “tirosh” clearly needs to mean alcoholic wine, and places where “ayin” is referred to positively. My wife read a “Temperance Bible Commentary” by a guy named Frederick Lees (yes, the name is funny in context!), and the contortions he had to go to in order to make the texts fit his theory were really astonishing.

I think the clincher is Jesus’ turning the water at Cana into wine. There’s no way this was non-alcoholic–it’s clear that the wedding party were expecting alcoholic wine (from the reference to hosts normally bringing out the bad wine last after people had drunk quite a bit and couldn’t tell the difference) and yet were delighted with the wine Jesus provided. Bacchiocchi’s argument is highly improbable.

Edwin
 
how does the potato vodka i’m sipping right now fit into this?

it would be the fruit of the root instead of vine.
 
Have you ever read Deuteronomy?

How about Deuteronomy 14:24-26? It states, “…And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to bring the tithe, when the Lord our God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God Chooses, to set his name there, then you shall turn it in to money, and bind up the money for whatever you desire, oxen, or sheep, or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves; and you shall eat before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household…”

Interesting, would’nt you say?👍

This argument of the biblical proofs for total abstinence from drinking alcohol is a perfect example of Protestant “proof-texts”. When a Protestant wants to prove their theology they find the scriptures that seem to support their theology and ignore the rest. This is why it is essential to have an infallible interpretation of Sacred Scripture.
 
Are you a** priest**?

Because Leviticus is the book of Laws for the priests.

What you are reading is **for the priests **who enter the holy of holies.

That is also why when you read about John the Baptist you see the angel Gabriel saying in

Luke 1
15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

Because John the Baptist comes from the line of Aaron (a priest) through his mother and his father is a priest so John is a priest.

Luke 1
5In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
 
1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

And did you forget the first miracle?

**John 2

Jesus changes water in to wine.**

1869 Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch, a physician and dentist by profession, successfully pasteurizes Concord grape juice to produce an “unfermented sacramental wine” for fellow parishioners at his church in Vineland, N.J., where he is communion steward. In a Methodist denomination.

welchs.com/company/company_history.html

Do we put ourselves above God?
 
You know, this thread has been bothering me all day.

These studies that Malachi has shown to be proof of “non-alcoholic wine” are clear cases of people having a pre-formed belief and then basing all their “expert studies” and their biblical interpretations around that belief - not Malachi, mind you, but these “experts”. People like Malachi, who WANT to believe these studies, are eager to accept these expert opinions, and these experts know it!!!

So what’s been bothering me is that the “non-alcoholic wine” historical revisionist (for lack of a more accurate name that is also charitable) are not the only people that distort the truth to justify their beliefs. And as long as there are people out there that want to believe these “truths”, there will be revisionist to help them.

It’s sad. 🤷
 
I have had my share of trouble with drinking, I am called not to drink. I still ofcourse with a humble heart, Enjoy the blessing to be able eat and drink the bread and wine at Mass. Unbelievers don’t understand why. I respond that it is the true daily bread and wine we all need. I also enjoy others who drink with control. And that is our lesson. Obedience in God’s will, not ours. And prayers to encourage all to love others whether they drink or not.

Hope love and Charity…!!
 
theresa1967 said:
I have had my share of trouble with drinking, I am called not to drink. I still ofcourse with a humble heart, Enjoy the blessing to be able eat and drink the bread and wine at Mass. Unbelievers don’t understand why. I respond that it is the true daily bread and wine we all need. I also enjoy others who drink with control. And that is our lesson. Obedience in God’s will, not ours. And prayers to encourage all to love others whether they drink or not.

Hope love and Charity…!!
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Amen! And welcome to the Forums.

I’ve found that I can TOTALLY control my drinking … just as long as I don’t drink.
 
I think one is better off not drinking. We dont drink in our family,and as it turns out, our teenage boys don’t drink either. We see good Catholic families being damaged by alcohol.These families kids’ start drinking at 14 or 15 and they drink hard.It hurts me to see someone elses child drinking. They are losing their innocence.Furthermore, kids do what their parents do. Sure I would like a drink sometimes, but even by having just one or two drinks, I find my myself drifting(mentally) to places that I should not go. We Catholics have family fellowships picnics where we have our children running around grounds where hard liquour is served. I believe we are giving our children the wrong message when we show them that fellowship-goodtimes-hard liquor go hand in hand. I don’t believe that Jesus would gamble or drink today. I believe he would be stone sober as to be ready to minister to anyone at all times with a clear mind.
 
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