Alcohol, fundamentalism and the Wedding of Cana

[Captain_America]

. . . of course, when the issue of drinking and tee-totalling Protestants come up, I always smile and remember the Baptist wedding I attended.

The bride was the daughter of the minister.

When it came time for the Daddy-Daughter dance at the reception, they had to run out to the parking lot to fetch her out of the car in which the wedding party were drinking.

 

[truetofaith]

. . . of course, when the issue of drinking and tee-totalling Protestants come up, I always smile and remember the Baptist wedding I attended.

The bride was the daughter of the minister.

When it came time for the Daddy-Daughter dance at the reception, they had to run out to the parking lot to fetch her out of the car in which the wedding party were drinking.

Some Baptists don’t allow dancing, either. :tsktsk:

 

[Novocastrian]

Some Baptists don’t allow dancing, either. :tsktsk:

I have a friend who grew up in a very, very conservative evangelical church in the States who used to joke that extra-marital sex was prohibited in case it led to dancing.

 

[Timothysis]

Do you think it’s healthy to drink alcohol to escape?

Does the Church teach that it’s OK to drink alcohol to escape?

Both of your questions could apply equally to chocolate, couldn’t they?

I personally don’t drink, but sometimes I’ll eat chocolate like there is no tomorrow. Is that better than having a glass of wine?

 

[SyroMalankara]

This is a really nice answer.

The temperance movement really was among the very first large public efforts to create a good and healthy society. . . with important social benefits of reduced family strife and distress, the possibility of economic advancement for the previously drinking class, and the possibility of the socially disconnected to get back on track with their lives and the people around them.

It really was a smart move.

With some loud liberals calling for the legalization of marijuana (yes, the “medical marijuana” notion justly deserves quotation marks!), we’re going to find an increase in social distress and and increase in the need for more policing.

On what planet was the temperance movement a success? I think any historian can clearly tell you it was an abject failure, as is the so-called war on drugs.

 

[FrDavid96]

The idea that the wine at the wedding at Cana might have been grape juice is actually impossible.

The wedding happened just before Passover (see John 2:12-13). Passover is in the spring. The grape harvest is in late summer (roughly August/September).

It was not possible to have grape juice in the springtime. There was no way to preserve fruit juice for months in ancient Palestine. Wine was the only way to do it.

If one wants to say “well, that was the miracle, grape juice in the spring…” then certainly there would have been something to that effect recorded in the Gospel account. The steward would have said “you made grape juice in the spring” instead of “you saved the best for last.” Grape juice simply makes no sense at all.

 

[Sarcelle]

The idea that the wine at the wedding at Cana might have been grape juice is actually impossible.

The wedding happened just before Passover (see John 2:12-13). Passover is in the spring. The grape harvest is in late summer (roughly August/September).

It was not possible to have grape juice in the springtime. There was no way to preserve fruit juice for months in ancient Palestine. Wine was the only way to do it.

If one wants to say “well, that was the miracle, grape juice in the spring…” then certainly there would have been something to that effect recorded in the Gospel account. The steward would have said “you made grape juice in the spring” instead of “you saved the best for last.” Grape juice simply makes no sense at all.

The steward also said that the common practice was too bring out the inferior wine for last when the guests were too inebriated to tell the difference. This would not have happened if the drink at weddings was plain unfermented grape juice.

 

[Cat]

Did you know that red wine is good for your health? And why do you think that the only reason to drink is to escape?

No, I don’t think escaping real life is the only reason to drink.

I think that there are “healthy” reasons to drink, and “unhealthy” reasons to drink, and I understand that many people who drink do so for “healthy” reasons.

In Post #54, tabycat made a comment that if she were a man, and the wife looked like the sour-pusses in the photos, he would drink.

To me, that’s using alcohol to escape. I called tabycat out on this. IMO, it’s an “unhealthy” reason to drink.

Many people who are addicted use their addictive substance/behavior to escape from situations that they don’t want to deal with in a more constructive way. I can testify to this, as I often use food as an escape from problems that I don’t want to deal with. I’m doing it right now–consuming a big bag of Doritos (the stinky nacho cheese ones) while I hang out on CAF because I “flunked” my mammogram yesterday and have to have a diagnostic mam tomorrow morning, and I’m scared and I have a lot of volunteer and music responsibilities that I don’t have the energy to face right now because I’m scared, so instead of just tackling those responsibilities, I’m eating to comfort myself and escape from my real life and my fear and the very real possibility of a cancer diagnosis. (My dad died of cancer two years ago.)

But yes, I’m aware that there are many other reasons why people drink; e.g., they love the taste of their alcoholic beverage of choice. Right now, craft beers are huge in my workplace, and people enjoy trying different ones.

I get that, and I consider that one of the “healthy” reasons to drink alcohol. But I don’t think drinking to escape an “ugly” spouse or to escape a cancer fear is a “healthy” reason to drink alcohol or consume any substance, or pursue any activity.

I hope this clarifies my POV for you.

Yes, I’m aware that red wine can be healthy for those who do not have a problem with addiction/alcoholism. But there are a lot of other beverages that are healthy that won’t impair judgment, and there are other foods that have the same health benefits as red wine. So I don’t see any reason for everyone to take up drinking red wine, unless they truly enjoy the taste.

 

[Cat]

Both of your questions could apply equally to chocolate, couldn’t they?

I personally don’t drink, but sometimes I’ll eat chocolate like there is no tomorrow. Is that better than having a glass of wine?

I agree that the questions apply equally to chocolate, or Mountain Dew, or gambling, or shopping, or getting tattooed, or sex, or video games, etc…any substance or behavior can become addictive when it triggers the “pleasure centers” of the brain, and the person loses control over the impulse to pursue the substance or behavior.

The difference is that nobody ever dies from “driving under the influence of chocolate,” unless the chocoholic loses control of their car while reaching for their chocolate. Same for the other substances and behaviors that I listed…there is not physiological impairment of judgment.

I believe that the Church teaches that addiction is a disordered state. I’m not sure if it is considered a sin.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I agree that the questions apply equally to chocolate, or Mountain Dew, or gambling, or shopping, or getting tattooed, or sex, or video games, etc…any substance or behavior can become addictive when it triggers the “pleasure centers” of the brain, and the person loses control over the impulse to pursue the substance or behavior.

The difference is that nobody ever dies from “driving under the influence of chocolate,” unless the chocoholic loses control of their car while reaching for their chocolate. Same for the other substances and behaviors that I listed…there is not physiological impairment of judgment.

I believe that the Church teaches that addiction is a disordered state. I’m not sure if it is considered a sin.

People have died from accidents caused by heartattacks, stroke, and other issues due to eating chocolate (among other extremes).

 

[Cat]

People have died from accidents caused by heartattacks, stroke, and other issues due to eating chocolate (among other extremes).

The number of people who die in auto accidents because someone else has a heart attack or stroke at the wheel is miniscule compared to the number of people who die due to a driver who was “under the influence.”

Alcohol is a factor in 50% of all auto accidents. (Sleepiness is a factor in the other 50%.)

And according to the latest studies, chocolate in moderation is actually heart-healthy.

Moderation. Such an illusive goal for so many of us. For those of you who achieve it in all things, I admire you. It’s a virtue that I want the Lord to cultivate in me, and at the same time, it’s a virtue that I wish the Lord wouldn’t cultivate in me. It’s more fun to “live life large”–at least, until it catches up with you.

 

[AbideWithMe]

People have died from accidents caused by heartattacks, stroke, and other issues due to eating chocolate (among other extremes).

It’s true that people have died in accidents from having a heart attack or stroke while driving, and unhealthy eating habits may have played a role in all that. But the sheer volume of accidents caused by people driving while intoxicated so greatly outweighs the number of accidents due to chocolate that I think it’s unreasonable make a comparison.

I have personally known a whole long litany of people who were killed or injured due to the intoxicated driving of someone else or due to their own driving under the influence. Of the people I know who died from their own DUI, each was a normally caring, conscientious person who made a grave and horrible mistake in judgment from drinking just a little too much.

A few days ago in my area, a single driver, who police believed to be DUI, crossed into oncoming traffic and hit a van full of nine people. The majority of the victims sustained grave injuries and had to be airlifted to area hospitals. In the van was a nun and an influential Catholic family, the John Kurtz family of East Fallowfield, PA, who run an auxiliary school for Catholic homeschoolers. Please keep them all in your prayers.

Apart from car accidents, I have closely known two people who left Catholicism because their father, a devout Catholic, was an alcoholic, and they held the church partly responsible for not helping their dad realize he had a problem. Right or wrong, they lost respect for both their father and Catholicism because of the bonhomme drinking culture of their church. They’re both now atheists.

 

[YADA]

In the van was a nun and an influential Catholic family, the John Kurtz family of East Fallowfield, PA, who run an auxiliary school for Catholic homeschoolers. Please keep them all in your prayers.

I will definately hold these people in my prayers. I understand their pain.

Apart from car accidents, I have closely known two people who left Catholicism because their father, a devout Catholic, was an alcoholic, and they held the church partly responsible for not helping their dad realize he had a problem. Right or wrong, they lost respect for both their father and Catholicism because of the bonhomme drinking culture of their church. They’re both now atheists.

Its a fact that people can make poor choices with devasting results at times. But you should not condemn the object…

Alcohol is merely a drink … the person who abuses that drink is the responsible party. Just as the person who uses their hands to hit someone, or their car to run over a person.

Those people who became atheist - what do they tell the children of the alcoholic atheist is to blame for their parent’s drinking problem? What about the child of a Baptist? I have several relatives with drinking problems …not one is Catholic …most are Protestant. …various denominations and a few are un-affliated or atheist … so much for your Catholic drinking culture …not my experience …i know very few Catholics with drinking problems …far more of another persuasion.

And I totally understand devastation caused by a drunk driver …so I don’t need the lecture. …my cousin was killed by a drunk driver …he was riding a bike when hit…his leg was retrieved from the roadside ditch - something that was played over and over in news footage…my aunt was …well you can imagine …

FYI …the number one cause of traffic accidents is distracted driving…you know texting, calling, eating, changing the radio, rubber necking an accident or other view.

Number two is driver fatigue. . The failure to take a break, get enough sleep, taking turns, etc.

Number three is driving while impaired …which - while alcohol may be the most commom … can include other drugs and substances used in combination. …even perscription medications …about 30% of accidents.

Number four is speeding… other causes are aggressive driving…think road rage and then there is weather …another cause is mechanical failure…

I spent nearly five years investigating serious and fatal vehicle accidents.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I will definately hold these people in my prayers. I understand their pain.

Thank you.

Its a fact that people can make poor choices with devasting results at times. But you should not condemn the object…

Alcohol is merely a drink … the person who abuses that drink is the responsible party. Just as the person who uses their hands to hit someone, or their car to run over a person.

But alcohol is a drink that itself impairs judgment and reaction times. Absolutely, the person who abuses alcohol is responsible for that. But, especially for women, it’s easy to drink just a little too much, which has the knock-on effect of impairing their judgment of how sober they are. Unlike a person using their own hand or car to hit someone, the hand or car itself is not having any influence over the mind of the person who hits someone with it.

Those people who became atheist - what do they tell the children of the alcoholic atheist is to blame for their parent’s drinking problem? What about the child of a Baptist? I have several relatives with drinking problems …not one is Catholic …most are Protestant. …various denominations and a few are un-affliated or atheist … so much for your Catholic drinking culture …not my experience …i know very few Catholics with drinking problems …far more of another persuasion.

I’m very glad you haven’t experienced a drinking culture among Catholics you know. I’m simply relating what they said to me in intimate conversations: that the good time, good man drinking associations (IOW, their church had used alcohol as a social lubricant at functions) had played a role in their father becoming an actual alcoholic.

And I totally understand devastation caused by a drunk driver …so I don’t need the lecture. …my cousin was killed by a drunk driver …he was riding a bike when hit…his leg was retrieved from the roadside ditch - something that was played over and over in news footage…my aunt was …well you can imagine …

FYI …the number one cause of traffic accidents is distracted driving…you know texting, calling, eating, changing the radio, rubber necking an accident or other view.

Number two is driver fatigue. . The failure to take a break, get enough sleep, taking turns, etc.

Number three is driving while impaired …which - while alcohol may be the most commom … can include other drugs and substances used in combination. …even perscription medications …about 30% of accidents.

Number four is speeding… other causes are aggressive driving…think road rage and then there is weather …another cause is mechanical failure…

I spent nearly five years investigating serious and fatal vehicle accidents.

 

[Cat]

I will definately hold these people in my prayers. I understand their pain.

Its a fact that people can make poor choices with devasting results at times. But you should not condemn the object…

Alcohol is merely a drink … the person who abuses that drink is the responsible party. Just as the person who uses their hands to hit someone, or their car to run over a person.

Those people who became atheist - what do they tell the children of the alcoholic atheist is to blame for their parent’s drinking problem? What about the child of a Baptist? I have several relatives with drinking problems …not one is Catholic …most are Protestant. …various denominations and a few are un-affliated or atheist … so much for your Catholic drinking culture …not my experience …i know very few Catholics with drinking problems …far more of another persuasion.

And I totally understand devastation caused by a drunk driver …so I don’t need the lecture. …my cousin was killed by a drunk driver …he was riding a bike when hit…his leg was retrieved from the roadside ditch - something that was played over and over in news footage…my aunt was …well you can imagine …

FYI …the number one cause of traffic accidents is distracted driving…you know texting, calling, eating, changing the radio, rubber necking an accident or other view.

Number two is driver fatigue. . The failure to take a break, get enough sleep, taking turns, etc.

Number three is driving while impaired …which - while alcohol may be the most commom … can include other drugs and substances used in combination. …even perscription medications …about 30% of accidents.

Number four is speeding… other causes are aggressive driving…think road rage and then there is weather …another cause is mechanical failure…

I spent nearly five years investigating serious and fatal vehicle accidents.

Alcohol is merely a drink?

If it were only so.

I’ve been addicted to soft drinks, mainly colas, for most of my life. It started when I was a young teenager, and today I’m 57. I drink around 8-10 diet pepsis a day. When I was in my 40s, I was drinking 8-10 real (high fructose corn syrup) Mountain Dews a day.

I’ve been able stop twice in my life. Once was when I was pregnant with my first daughter in 1982–I couldn’t keep soda down, so I had to stop drinking it.

And once was in the mid 1990s–one day I just stopped drinking it, and didn’t drink soda for almost 2 years. I didn’t lose any weight, and life felt somehow “hollow” and “sadder” to me. So I started drinking it again.

For me, soda pop is much more than “just a drink.” It’s puppies and music and youth and singing on a hilltop and road trips into the wilderness (for those of you who aren’t over 50, and who didn’t grow up in the United States, these are all television commercials that aired during the late 1970s and early 1980s, during my teenage and college years).

But at least, it’s just soda, and at least I now drink diet soda almost exclusively so I don’t experience the weight gain (at one point, I was getting close to 300 pounds, I now weigh 220, which is still obese, but at least I can wear the smaller sizes of Queen-sized clothing).

Soda has less caffeine than coffee or tea, and soda does not impair judgment.

But still…it’s much more than just a drink.

I wonder how many alcoholics would laugh (or cry) at the thought of alcohol being “just a drink.” They wish.

What I’m saying here is that we cannot underestimate the power of alcohol! Think of the history! Think of people like Edgar Allan Poe, a hopeless alcoholic who died much too soon at the age of 30! Think of all the lives ruined and lives destroyed because of alcohol! Think of the Capone and Banion wars in Chicago, and all the other organized crime that got started largely because of the demand for alcohol!

No mere drink has as much of a history as alcohol!

If you can drink it in moderation (whatever that is), and give it up in a moment without any regret, wonderful! You are fortunate indeed because you are able to enjoy a pleasure-inducing substance without any ill effects!

But please, give alcohol the respect it deserves.

 

[hazcompat]

Saint John Vianey

WINE IS HIS GOD

Habitual drunkenness is not one of those sins which time and grace will correct. To cure this sin, not an ordinary grace but a miracle of grace is required. You ask me why drunken people are so rarely converted. This is the reason: it is that they have neither faith, nor religion, nor pity, nor respect for holy things. Nothing is able to touch them or to open their eyes to their unhappy state. If you try to frighten them with death, or judgment, or the Hell which is waiting to consume them, if you talk to them of the happiness which God is keeping for those who love Him, the only answer you will get is a sly little smile which means: “You think now that you are going to make me afraid, like you do the children, but I am not one of those people who fall for that.”

But look at what this means. Such a person believes that when we are dead, everything is finished. His god is his wine and he abides by it. The wine which he drinks to excess, the Holy Ghost warns him, is like a snake whose bite is death.

You believe none of this now, but in Hell you will learn that there was a God other than your stomach…

It is essential for the habitual drunkard to get out of this state in order that he may understand the full horror of it. But, unfortunately, he has no faith. He believes only very weakly in the truths which the Church teaches us. It is essential for him to have recourse to prayer, but he hardly says any prayers at all, or if he does, it will be while he is dressing or undressing, or again, he may be satisfied to make just the Sign of the Cross, after a fashion, as he throws himself down on his bed, like a horse in its stable. It is essential that he should frequent the Sacraments, which are, in spite of the contempt with which the impious regard them, the sole remedies which the mercy of God offers us to draw us to Him. But, unfortunately, he does not even know the dispositions which he ought to cultivate in order to receive them worthily or even the bare essentials which he should know in order to save his soul. If you want to question him about his state, he understands nothing about it, as his contradictory answers show. If at the time of a Jubilee, or of a Mission, or something like that, he wants to keep up appearances, he will be content to tell barely the half of his sins, and, still burdened with the others, he will approach the altar. That is to say, he will commit sacrilege; that will satisfy him. Dear God, what a dreadful state is that of the habitual drunkard and how hard it is to be able to leave it! The Prophet Isaias tells us that habitual drunkards are useless as far as the doing of good on earth is concerned but that they are very dangerous when it comes to the doing of evil. To convince ourselves of that, my dear brethren, go into a cabaret, which St. John Climacus calls the Devil’s Shop, the school where Hell holds forth and teaches its doctrine, the place where souls are sold, where homes are ruined, where health deteriorates, where quarrels begin, and where murders are committed.

… What do you learn there? You know that better than I do…

Take a look at this poor drunkard, my dear brethren. He is full of wine and his purse is empty. He throws himself down on a bench or a table. He is amazed in the morning to find himself still in the cabaret, when he thought that he was at home. He takes himself off after having spent all his money, and often, in order to be able to leave, he is forced to leave his hat or coat in pledge for the wine he has drunk. When he arrives home, his poor wife and their children, whom he has left without bread, and only their eyes to weep with, have to take flight from him unless they want to be ill treated, as if they were the cause of his spending all his money and getting his affairs into the bad state in which they are. Ah, dear Lord, how deplorable is the state of the habitual drunkard!

The Council of Mayence [Mainz] wisely tells us that a drunkard breaks the Ten Commandments of God…

It is greatly to be feared that those who are gripped by this vice never cure themselves of it! …

Let us pray to the all-merciful God to preserve us from it…

Peace

 

[YADA]

Alcohol is merely a drink?

If it were only so.

I’ve been addicted to soft drinks, mainly colas, for most of my life. It started when I was a young teenager, and today I’m 57. I drink around 8-10 diet pepsis a day. When I was in my 40s, I was drinking 8-10 real (high fructose corn syrup) Mountain Dews a day.

I’ve been able stop twice in my life. Once was when I was pregnant with my first daughter in 1982–I couldn’t keep soda down, so I had to stop drinking it.

And once was in the mid 1990s–one day I just stopped drinking it, and didn’t drink soda for almost 2 years. I didn’t lose any weight, and life felt somehow “hollow” and “sadder” to me. So I started drinking it again.

For me, soda pop is much more than “just a drink.” It’s puppies and music and youth and singing on a hilltop and road trips into the wilderness (for those of you who aren’t over 50, and who didn’t grow up in the United States, these are all television commercials that aired during the late 1970s and early 1980s, during my teenage and college years).

But at least, it’s just soda, and at least I now drink diet soda almost exclusively so I don’t experience the weight gain (at one point, I was getting close to 300 pounds, I now weigh 220, which is still obese, but at least I can wear the smaller sizes of Queen-sized clothing).

Soda has less caffeine than coffee or tea, and soda does not impair judgment.

But still…it’s much more than just a drink.

I wonder how many alcoholics would laugh (or cry) at the thought of alcohol being “just a drink.” They wish.

What I’m saying here is that we cannot underestimate the power of alcohol! Think of the history! Think of people like Edgar Allan Poe, a hopeless alcoholic who died much too soon at the age of 30! Think of all the lives ruined and lives destroyed because of alcohol! Think of the Capone and Banion wars in Chicago, and all the other organized crime that got started largely because of the demand for alcohol!

No mere drink has as much of a history as alcohol!

If you can drink it in moderation (whatever that is), and give it up in a moment without any regret, wonderful! You are fortunate indeed because you are able to enjoy a pleasure-inducing substance without any ill effects!

But please, give alcohol the respect it deserves.

You sound like a person with an addictive personality or one who disdains discipline.

Yes, alcohol and any substance or habitual activity can take over ones life …but only with the cooperation of the individual…the sodas didn’t climb out of the fridge in their own, the whiskey doesn’t pour itself.

Even your references to the influence of advertising is blaming placed upon the other …

My point is not that alcohol does not induce any affect (every thing we consume has affects upon us) but that it in and of itself is not evil. How it is used (by the one using it) makes it good or bad. Thus you can say you choose not to imbibe because you cannot control yourself …but you should not then attempt to control others by demonizing the inanimate object.

And yes …we can make a God out of many things and activities …but that too … begins and ends with us.

Ben Franklin said “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” …even though I am not a beer drinker …there is wisdom in that…personally, my Lord made the Best wine ever …about 120 gallons for a celebration of love and life …that’s good enough for me.

 

[Vanny]

There are very good reasons for a Christian not to drink. I don’t imbibe hardly at all myself-most especially not at Christian functions (even though my Lutheran faith does not forbid it). I just don’t think it’s a good witness, to be honest. My husband’s side of the family(evangelical and fundamentalist) are dead set against it. My husband doesn’t drink at all, even though he’s a converted Lutheran now. I will take a glass or wine or beer on occasion.
So as I said, very good reasons not to drink. Some people should not drink at all.
Having said, that. I don’t believe having an alcoholic beverage in itself is a sin.
The Bible never calls it sin. It does, however call drunkenness a sin.
So, the take-away for me is that if you can drink responsibility-not a sin.
If you can’t control yourself and drink to get drunk-a sin.(And you shouldn’t drink IMO)
In my younger days, when I was college age, ect. drinking was all about partying and getting drunk so I would consider that a sin,so does the Bible.
This is why I quit drinking completely for awhile after I re-committed my life to the Lord back in the 80’s so I could just live for Christ and be sober- minded.(which the Bible tells us to do.) Drinking for me correlated with the "worldly " lifestyle and was not healthy either in excess.
So I quit for quite awhile.
The other reason I don’t drink except rarely now is I never want to be in a situation where I have to get behind the wheel of a car-and being a Mom I always had kids needing to be picked up or someone needing a ride, ect.
Just don’t want to take the chance.

 

[simspt]

Humans require food for survival.

Sex is required for the continuance of the human race, and the Bible is very clear that sex within marriage is God’s plan.

Alcohol consumption is not required for survival or pleasure.

Any good thing can be twisted. I am not saying that alcohol use is wrong. I am saying that the use of alcohol in the United States is associated with so much tragedy and abuse and crime and “evil” that it would be better for Christians to avoid it.

Hopefully Christians who make a decision to use alcohol will avoid sinning with it and be a good example to those who would use alcohol for sin. And hopefully, Christians will not drink to “be happy,” and hopefully they won’t drink to the point where it affects their behavior in any way.

A good glass of red wine makes me happy but seriously i totally support the potential for technology in the future to make it impossible for someone intoxicated to operate a car. The alcohol industry is very opposed to such future car technologies because they are much more concerned with $$$ than human life. They are a bunch of dirt bags.

 

[AbideWithMe]

You sound like a person with an addictive personality or one who disdains discipline.

Yes, alcohol and any substance or habitual activity can take over ones life …but only with the cooperation of the individual…the sodas didn’t climb out of the fridge in their own, the whiskey doesn’t pour itself.

Even your references to the influence of advertising is blaming placed upon the other …

My point is not that alcohol does not induce any affect (every thing we consume has affects upon us) but that it in and of itself is not evil. How it is used (by the one using it) makes it good or bad. Thus you can say you choose not to imbibe because you cannot control yourself …but you should not then attempt to control others by demonizing the inanimate object.
And yes …we can make a God out of many things and activities …but that too … begins and ends with us.

Ben Franklin said “Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.” …even though I am not a beer drinker …there is wisdom in that…personally, my Lord made the Best wine ever …about 120 gallons for a celebration of love and life …that’s good enough for me.

YADA—Cat wasn’t “demonizing” alcohol. Your response is almost as if you didn’t really make an attempt to actually read her post in any thoughtful way.

That’s not a real quote from Ben Franklin, BTW, despite its popularity on tee shirts and on the internet.