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losh14
Guest
The destruction of the embodiment of evil violates no Commandments nor laws. Indeed, if it is the only means of the preservation of innocent life, you have a moral obligation to do so.
On second thought, don’t touch it. Everything Lovecraft writes is like old jokes about Russia - “In mythos, you don’t eat octopus, octopus eat you!”
I’d cook it first. If the mythos is true that’s 100,000-year-old calamari.Well that’s a pity. Does that mean it’s not mortal sin to make cosmic sushi out of said Ancient One?
On second thought, don’t touch it. Everything Lovecraft writes is like old jokes about Russia - “In mythos, you don’t eat octopus, octopus eat you!”
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Well, technically priests are “Men in Black”
I have to wonder if this type of public musing by the Pope does harm or good.
Some already dismiss us as people who believe in fictional beings, and lumping us in with the Roswell crowd hardly seems fair. Not only that but if an alien were more like an animal that Sigourney Weaver fights then I am not sure salvation would even be possible. I think the Pope did say little green MEN so perhaps theologians can pick that up.
Either way, I am not sure how faith is enriched. By picking a fictional character instead of just saying “we should baptize and spread the Gospel to all people.” I think something can be lost on the seriousness of it.
Sometimes I think Francis is clever enough to “play” with the media and sometimes I think the media has it’s way with him. I wonder which one this was?
I have to wonder if this type of public musing by the Pope does harm or good.
Some already dismiss us as people who believe in fictional beings, and lumping us in with the Roswell crowd hardly seems fair. Not only that but if an alien were more like an animal that Sigourney Weaver fights then I am not sure salvation would even be possible. I think the Pope did say little green MEN so perhaps theologians can pick that up.
Either way, I am not sure how faith is enriched. By picking a fictional character instead of just saying “we should baptize and spread the Gospel to all people.” I think something can be lost on the seriousness of it.
Sometimes I think Francis is clever enough to “play” with the media and sometimes I think the media has it’s way with him. I wonder which one this was?
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Genesis315
Guest
I don’t think this was meant to be a serious comment by the Pope–he appears to be using hyperbole to emphasize the universal call to conversion and baptism. But this question does seem to come up a lot, and I would argue that it would not be right to baptize aliens.
The salvation of man is linked to the incarnation. God became man so man might become God and it is through Baptism that man is incorporated into Christ. Pope St. Zachary condemned the idea that there could be human beings on other planets, because it meant that they did not come from Adam and Eve (and all human beings come from two original parents). If aliens therefore are not humans. If they had immortal souls and sinned, like the fallen angels, they couldn’t be saved–unless some other person of the Trinity became incarnate as an alien–but this has not happened–and according to St. Anselm in the Cur Deus Homo, any other person of the Trinity becoming incarnate would not be wholly fitting (the Father-Son relationship is what made it fitting for the Second Person to lower Himself).
The salvation of man is linked to the incarnation. God became man so man might become God and it is through Baptism that man is incorporated into Christ. Pope St. Zachary condemned the idea that there could be human beings on other planets, because it meant that they did not come from Adam and Eve (and all human beings come from two original parents). If aliens therefore are not humans. If they had immortal souls and sinned, like the fallen angels, they couldn’t be saved–unless some other person of the Trinity became incarnate as an alien–but this has not happened–and according to St. Anselm in the Cur Deus Homo, any other person of the Trinity becoming incarnate would not be wholly fitting (the Father-Son relationship is what made it fitting for the Second Person to lower Himself).
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Razanir
Guest
No, because he was only programmed to appear sentient. The machine is not actually sentient.
No, no, I’m pretty sure they are plotting to kill us.
Correct. And I, for one, find Ancient One sushi to be absolutely delectable. Well, at least once I got used to seeing in the 4th dimension as a side effect.Well that’s a pity. Does that mean it’s not mortal sin to make cosmic sushi out of said Ancient One?
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losh14
Guest
Now this I don’t understand…
Why limit yourself to a mere 4 dimensions when 10 dimensions comprise the physical universe?
Why must the alien be baptized? Shouldn’t he/she/it/they (not sure of the proper pronoun to use for an alien) just need to use proper form and intend what the Church intends?
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McCall1981
Guest
Well, technically priests are “Men in Black”
I have to wonder if this type of public musing by the Pope does harm or good.
Some already dismiss us as people who believe in fictional beings, and lumping us in with the Roswell crowd hardly seems fair. Not only that but if an alien were more like an animal that Sigourney Weaver fights then I am not sure salvation would even be possible. I think the Pope did say little green MEN so perhaps theologians can pick that up.
Either way, I am not sure how faith is enriched. By picking a fictional character instead of just saying “we should baptize and spread the Gospel to all people.” I think something can be lost on the seriousness of it.
Sometimes I think Francis is clever enough to “play” with the media and sometimes I think the media has it’s way with him. I wonder which one this was?
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SecretCatholic
Guest
I think you’ll find that both hardcore atheists and many religious people believe in the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life.Well, technically priests are “Men in Black”
I have to wonder if this type of public musing by the Pope does harm or good.
Some already dismiss us as people who believe in fictional beings, and lumping us in with the Roswell crowd hardly seems fair.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
The key word there is Possibility. Most “atheists” acknowledge a possibility of a higher being too. Some even go so far as to suggest it is a alien.
But the words “little green men” are hardly something any atheist would sincerely believe in.
“little green men” is something you would say to demean someone who believed in aliens.
Just look at this thread. We are all making jokes about it rather than talking about the idea that ALL people should be baptized and how that is the way of salvation. Was the Pope being cheeky, perhaps, but it failed at it’s purpose if you ask me. Giving ammo to those who poke fun at the “religious”
If we move beyond the sci fi of it and focus on the message it is a solid argument for the necessity of baptizing and evangelizing in a world that seems to be foreign to the idea. In a world that is full of the “phrase” baptism of desire, and in the light of the interpretation of VII we find that the Pope may very well agree with the absolute necessity to baptize to save.
But that would be more controversial than an H.G. Wells idea.
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thewanderer
Guest
There are a couple of issues here. One is that the reason the fallen angels were not able to be redeemed is because they are immaterial beings, a fact which effects their ability to change, son once they have made the decision to turn away from God it is made and cannot be undone. St. Thomas speaks about this. This would not apply to aliens with immortal souls as they would not be immaterial.
Another issue is the idea you have that God can only save his creation through incarnation and death. St Thomas is very clear about this as well. While there are many good reasons for God to have saved us through this medium it was not strictly necessary in that God could have saved us just by willing it to be done if He so wished.
The third issue is that we cannot know whether or not God has incarnated himself for alien races, so to claim definitively that he has not is premature.
All in all its a very murky area theologically, as well as an extremely speculative and impractical one.
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agnes_therese
Guest
But interesting to consider, nonetheless.All in all its a very murky area theologically, as well as an extremely speculative and impractical one.
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thewanderer
Guest
Oh don’t worry, I am well aware of the pleasure of thinking about and discussing odd, remote, and impractical ideas, especially as they relate to theology and philosophy.
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HelenRose
Guest
Sometimes I think that Pope Francis is just playing with the fragile little brains of the media. It is soooooooo easy to get them wound up and running in circles. It really isn’t fair you know.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-13/pope-offers-baptism-to-martians/5448548
He may have said in jest but you never know.
"The Pope said Christians cannot “close the door” on anyone who seeks baptism, even if they are “green men, with a long nose and big ears, like children draw,” he said at his daily mass on Monday.
“If tomorrow, for example, an expedition of Martians arrives and some of them come to us … and if one of them says: ‘Me, I want to be baptised!’, what would happen?” Francis said.
On baptism, Francis has stressed that it should not be refused to anyone, especially to children whose parents may be breaking Church rules, such as living together as an unmarried couple."
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Razanir
Guest
I’m not. The Cthulhu sushi only gave me the ability to see in 4 dimensions. Although I’ve heard rumors that Azathoth steak lets one see in 6.
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tommydude2112
Guest
I know there’s a lot of controversy about this but only humans have souls
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thewanderer
Guest
I’m afraid that, even if you limit the meaning of soul to mean immortal soul, you are mistaken, the angels and the fallen angels also have immortal souls.
But beyond the angels there is no known reason to say that it is impossible for God to have created another species with immortal souls. Because of that it is a little premature to claim absolutely that humans are the only material beings with immortal souls.
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