All Graces Come Through Mary

[jmj1984]

Thank you for this informative post. The last paragraph that I bolded is very encouraging to me.

No problem, I’m glad I could be of help

I remember how shocked I was when I first read St Louis-Marie montfort’s ‘True Devotion’ it just seemed to go too far, I’ve read it three times now and each time I’ve been able to accept a little more of it. St Alphonsus ‘The Glories of Mary’ has been helpful because its much more indepth and after persuading you of one thing with reason and support from the saints and fathers slowly builds on it.

 

[TrueLight]

No problem, I’m glad I could be of help

I remember how shocked I was when I first read St Louis-Marie montfort’s ‘True Devotion’ it just seemed to go too far, I’ve read it three times now and each time I’ve been able to accept a little more of it. St Alphonsus ‘The Glories of Mary’ has been helpful because its much more indepth and after persuading you of one thing with reason and support from the saints and fathers slowly builds on it.

Maybe I will check out the Glories of Mary. The title is enough to scare me away, but I know for sure I cannot bear to read Louis de Montfort.

 

[justtryin]

Yes and no. The progression of things is to eventually go to Mary?

I mean to say, This is how God chooses to dispense His Grace into the world. It’s the same concept as “no salvation outside the Church.” I don’t know if I can put this to words, but here goes.

Think big picture. God is in Heaven. We are on Earth. God wants to connect the two. So He chooses to come to us through Mary. This is how He chose to do it. He became flesh to redeem flesh. This makes Mary the Gate (as the litany addresses Her.)

Two worlds, One Gate to pass through. Grace continues to pass through this Gateway.

Salvation comes from Christ. Saving grace comes into this world through His Church.

Think of a fork in the road. I am on one side, you are on the other. You are Catholic, I follow what the Church calls Natural Law. We can both obtain Saving Grace. Between us is The Church in the fork of the road. That grace comes from God, to the Church, left to you and right to me. Same source (GOD), same Gate (His Church) two destinations. Only you know the path the grace travelled (the Church), but I don’t know that path because I don’t know the Church.

Same with Mary. You are in the Church, you know Her teachings on grace. You know the path it travelled to reach you.

I am outside the Church, received grace but don’t know how it came to me.

It changes nothing. The only difference is you now have more knowledge of how God’s plan for salvation works than I do.

I probably confused you even more. If I did I am sorry.

 

[Bluegoat]

I mean to say, This is how God chooses to dispense His Grace into the world. It’s the sane concept as “no salvation outside the Church.” I don’t know if I can put this to words, but here goes.

Think big picture. God is in Heaven. We are on Earth. God wants to connect the two. So He chooses to come to us through Mary. This is how He chose to do it. He became flesh to redeem flesh. This makes Mary the Gate (as the litany addresses Her.)

Two worlds, One Gate to pass through. Grace continues to pass through this Gateway.

Salvation comes from Christ. Saving grace comes into this world through His Church.

Think of a fork in the road. I am on one side, you are on the other. You are Catholic, I follow what the Church calls Natural Law. We can both obtain Saving Grace. Between us is The Church in the fork of the road. That grace comes from God, to the Church, left to you and right to me. Same source (GOD), same Gate (His Church) two destinations. Only you know the path the grace travelled (the Church), but I don’t know that path becaude I don’t know the Church.

Same with Mary. You are in the Church, you know Her teachings on grace. You know the path it travelled to reach you.

I am outside the Church, received grace but don’t know how it came to me.

It changes nothing. The only difference is you now have more knowledge of how God’s plan for salvation works than I do.

I probably confused you even more. If I did I am sorry.

So, can you give some sort of theological reference for this, or something from the Fathers. Because I am not quite seeing this in the early Church, despite all the respect and honour they have for Mary.

 

[jmj1984]

Maybe I will check out the Glories of Mary. The title is enough to scare me away, but I know for sure I cannot bear to read Louis de Montfort.

His book on the rosary will probably be moire palatable for you than True Devotion. Frankly I wouldn’t get hung up on issues such as Mary as mediatrix regardless of what some may believe they are not De Fide dogmas and they’re also incredibly hard to understand especially for people coming from a protestant background such as myself. Ultimately we know that the Catholic faith is christocentric because of the sacrifice of the mass called by St Pius X ‘the highest form of prayer’ and eucharistic adoration and benediction which are completely focused on Christ. Therefore devotion to Mary and Jesus do not contradict.

 

[Dan_Daly]

This may help:

AudioSancto.org/auweb/20060604-Our-Queen-Mary-Mediatrix-of-All-Graces.mp3

Pax.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Papal support for the doctrine:

Exactly St Pius and Pope Leo XIII are the ones.

Also Right, we are talking Ark of the OT as opposed to Ark of the NT in this case. However those two Pope’s, along with Lumen Gentium chapter XIII pretty much sums it up. Then of course to read Pope Benedicts August 16th 2011 Homily on the ‘Assumption’ gives an interesting leadway into the Mary as the New Ark. To understand why Pope Benedict assumed the name Benedict is very telling by understanding Benedict XV and the BVM.

Tim,

Well spoken an pretty much how the church has worked for me also.

"Intellectual assent is one thing, but interiorizing it is another. Setting the heart on fire is yet another thing still.

For me, the Church has been correct so many times, that there is a critical mass of trust established."

In the case of Mary we start at Genesis and end at Revelation. So there is a vast amount of information through the CC.

Pope Leo XIII alone wrote 13 encyclicals on the Blessed Mother. However he was also gifted with visions. The made the profound statement “The Rosary is the weapon which will defeat satan”. He collapsed while performing a Mass at the Vatican from a Vision of Christ and satan having a conversation. Which caused the encyclicals to Mary, the Prayer of St Michael, which is extensively used today to fight evil in minor and major exorcisms. He then dedicated the period granted to satan by Christ for tempting, to the Holy Spirit through the Blessed Mother. As Pope Benedict mentioned last year May 2010, we are still in this period. You live in eternity it didn’t stop and start for mankind or for you. Its not going to start when you die…you are in it now. We see God collapse Time as He wills and when He wills. Time is collapsed by the Holy Spirit at every Holy Sacrifice. Those who can’t grasp this are just not understanding this knowledge. Miracles happen daily, the Holy Spirit does not live in our “time frame”. God placed that on you as a learning device. Mystics, Prophets, Seers see time collapsed through each vision of the Soul, this also is confirmed in Bible, by the Catholic Mystics, and the Holy Sacrifice of the Church.

God has constantly placed chosen souls inbetween Him to help man comprehend a God who we can only begin to perceive let alone conceive. The human nature of Jesus thus the Sonship/brotherhood, Our-Lady, the Prophets, Mystics the Bishops, Fathers, Sisters are links on the vertical axis. This is the process of intercession, the ascend/descend process. A lesson well taught by the BVM. The horizontal axis is “time”, that is how to correctly view this.

There’s an entire context of the BVM which runs parallel to Jesus Christ which parallels God the Father/Holy Spirit. Which has continued through our “time” right till this present moment. from Adam and Eve, to Abraham, Moses, Elijah, David, Job. Isaiah, Daniel, Jerimiah, Ezekial, Luke, John etc. The Holy Spirit is still coming to man as is the Blessed Mother today. The Holy Spirit though the Blessed Mother allude’s to critical periods in time. However apparitions are not required belief but “worthy of belief” and I only use them to place in perspective what is going on in time or the vertical/horizontal axis, of Her the Church, because it helps to see the overall picture. As it does by looking back at Bible with the Prophets

What also became apparent through the other thread is True-Light didn’t think this was doctrine or teaching, at that point posters where using St Louis de Montfort as a referrence. This is very indictive of overall understanding which I don’t say to put to fault, its simply a path of learning.

While I have read all of St Louis de Montforts works, and he is inspiring! However he catchs much flack and comes under constant attack today by those who chose to attack the BVM. The systematic attack on Christianity starts with the BVM leads to the Holy Sacirifice then the Cross and Christ…NOTHING NEW. For me the natural discourse is to follow the Church/Bible. Much easier to just defend the Truth. St Louis de Montfort states Mary generates all Grace. This is also the teaching of Lumen Gentium chp XIII. This relates to the New Ark, Mother of God and the Assumption, Coronation. Which relates to the Ark of the OT. All Doctrine.

Simply follow the Sacrements/Trinity and keep the faith with an open mind to truths such as the real presence of the Holy Sacrifice, the Blessed Mother and the Holy Family. The Mass is the most important Grace given by God. Thats not of man but of God with a promise for eternity to prevail. How we fill our time inbetween obviously is also very important thus the intercession, devotions etc. Read, and Read some more, school is never out.

Should anyone else not believe the teaching of the CC then God Bless you, we pray for you. Really what else is there to say:shrug:

God Bless, Gary

 

[Marie5890]

TrueLight,

Completely understand what it like to come across teachings that make me pause, if not down right skeptical. Esp in the very beginning.

The way I would approach this was I was really honest with the Lord about my skepticism, cynicism etc. My serious doubts.

Then I would tell Him, “I have these concerns, doubts, skepticism in one hand Lord, but in my other hand I will keep an open mind”
And I would do just that, keep an open mind. And the Lord never failed to meet my concerns, doubts, skepticism etc.

If anything, those teachings that I had problems with, when I took the above approach, have now became some of my strongest convictions.

The Lord obviously can handle our deepest concerns, doubts and skepticism. We just need to keep an open mind even while we are honest as to where we are at.

 

[Lifesong]

Hi Tru Light- I am also coming in through RCIA this year and I have had my issues as well with Mary that I am still trying to wrap my head around so I find this thread enlightening. I come from a Methodist background. I pray the Rosary now comfortably but still am not comfortable with all that I read yet or maybe I just don’t get it which I will freely admit as I am a little baby Catholic at this point so I thank you for asking! Anyway a book which may help you as a Protestant coming into the Church is Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn. He is an ex Presbyterian pastor and a fantastic author- his Rome Sweet Home was a big influence on my decision to enter the Church. I myself started to read the Total Consecration to Mary stuff on my ipieta app on my ipad and some of it frankly kind of freaks me out but I think as new Catholics and committed Christians I know for myself I need to take baby steps with the stuff I don’t understand and keep my eyes on Jesus who I believe led me to this point. Again thank you for the question! I will now hang back and read the links and answers as I have so much to learn.

God Bless,

Val

 

[twf]

TrueLight:
Everything posted in this thread thus far has been great…but I wanted to add another quick thought. I think it is important to remember that Catholic theology is much more nuanced than Protestant theology (for the most part). Catholicism is comprised of a faith in an infinite supernatural reality…it is impossible to capture the fulness of our faith considering the finite nature of human language. For this reason, we often have paradoxes in our faith where two, apparently contradictory statements, can both be true. I’ll give you an example - I was saved by the grace of Jesus Christ alone. I was saved by Father Joe who brought me to the sacraments of the Church. (This example is actually very Biblical as even St. Paul, who clearly teaches that salvation is from Christ alone, speaks of “saving” his flock…as the earthly instrument of Christ).

Scripture teaches that Christ is the only true mediator between man and God and the source of all graces necessary for salvation. Scripture also teaches that salvation comes to us through the Church and the Lord’s ministers. Jesus tells the apostles that He is sending them into the world just as the Father sent him; in a very real sense, the Church and her ministers continue the saving work of Christ.

Let me ask you something - when a Catholic receives the Lord Jesus Christ in Holy Communion, from whom does he or she receive the grace of this sacrament? Jesus? The priest? The answer is both. The sacrament of Our Lord’s body and blood is given to us by the priest, who acts in Christ’s name and by his power…without the priest we will not receive the Lord…plain and simple. No sacramental grace comes to us save through an ordained priest. Yet at the same time, in the sacraments, particularly in the Eucharist, we have a direct and very real encounter with the person of Jesus Christ. When we say that all sacramental grace comes to us through the ministry of a priest, we are not in any way excluding the reality that Christ is the sole source of that grace and that we are to have a real and personal encounter directly with Him as well…the two are not mutually exclusive. If you can accept this, is it so hard to imagine that all grace also, in some mystical way, comes through Mary? There are so many layers to the spirituality beyond are comprehension…you don’t have to fully understand how this works. The incarnation, which brought about our salvation, came through Mary…thus in a very literal sense all grace (that is, the person of Jesus Christ) came to us through Mary. That her continued intercession and mediation in heaven, as our loving mother, is necessary for our salvation no more takes away from Christ and our personal and intimate relationship with Christ than does the necessary mediation of the priest on earth. [CONTINUED]

 

[twf]

[CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

I think you are looking at this in a too literal and black and white fashion…stop thinking in terms of “either/or”…its not the priest vs Jesus, or Mary vs Jesus. Our relationship with Jesus is made possible through Mary, and her constant intercession empowers and strengthens our prayers to Jesus, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t also address the Lord and interact with the Lord directly - just as the necessary role of the priest in Holy Communion doesn’t interfere, but rather enables, our encounter with Jesus.

I’ve included a previous post from another thread that I wrote on a similar topic…

I think the OP has to remember that as Catholics we believe that we are truly called to be sons of God. It took a while for me, as a former Protestant myself, to fully realize the implications of this very Biblical teaching. Scripture clearly teaches that Our Lord is the one mediator between man and God - yet at the same time, we see examples of others (as other posters have already illustrated) both on earth and in heaven (eg. the elders in Revelation 4 and the angel in Revelation 8 both offering up intercessory prayers in heaven) participating in Our Lord’s work of mediation. Why is this? Is Our Lord’s intercession insufficient? Was His work on the cross insufficient? Not at all! The simple answer is, simply put, that Our Lord WILLS to share His divine work with his adopted brothers and sisters…and most especially with His Holy Mother through whom He adopted our own human nature. The Church teaches that Second Person of the Blessed Trinity assumed our lowly human nature in order to glorify it and raise it to eternal glory. In the person of Jesus, mankind has conquered death and reigns in glory at the right hand of the Father. John 1:12 tells us that Christ gave those whom He called the power to become sons of God…when we are adopted as sons and daughters of God at our baptism, we aren’t simply given a cool title…we are truly transformed, through the sacraments, in our very being, truly participating in the divine sonship of Christ. St. Paul teaches us that we are destined to share in Christ’s glory as his co-heirs (Romans 8:17). This is not something that we deserve nor something that we can merit…it is a gift of infinite value that Christ the Man-God won for his adopted brothers and sisters, the human race, through his passion, death, and resurrection. If we are co-heirs of Christ, how can you logically deny that we, especially those who have been perfected in heaven, the saints and Our Blessed Mother, can also be his co-intercessors? Especially when we are commanded again and again to intercede for one another in Scripture. Our Blessed Lady, through whom Our Lord affected the mystery of the Incarnation, plays a special role in salvation and, as His most holy and perfect mother, is closest to His Sacred Heart…we can already see in Scripture at the wedding of Cana that her role is to intercede for her children - not because Christ’s intercession is insufficient, but because He wills to share His glory with his saints - particularly with His Mother. If you read the account of Cana in John 2, Our Lord clearly tells His Mother that it was not his time…so why did He perform the miracle if it was not yet His time? The answer is obvious - out of His love for Her, as the perfect Mother he himself created to make possible our salvation, He will not deny her requests.

Catechism of the Catholic Church #460:

Quote:
The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81
78 2 Pt 1:4.
79 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939.
80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.
81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4.

I would invite the OP to also meditate on the Scripture verses/comments here scripturecatholic.com/blessed_virgin_mary.html and here scripturecatholic.com/saints.html

 

[TrueLight]

Lifesong and Marie. Thank you. It helps to know those have recently gone through the same things.

I was feeling pretty dejected last night and this morning. But as Protestants say, God sent me a “word”.

I happen to be reading Imitation of Christ on the train and came upon this passage:
sacred-texts.com/chr/ioc/ioc068.htm

1. "For is anything too hard for Me, or shall I be like unto one who saith and doeth not? Where is thy faith? Stand fast and with perseverance. Be long-suffering and strong. Consolation will come unto thee in its due season. Wait for Me; yea, wait; I will come and heal thee. It is temptation which vexeth thee, and a vain fear which terrifieth thee. What doth care about future events bring thee, save sorrow upon sorrow? Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof.(2) It is vain and useless to be disturbed or lifted up about future things which perhaps will never come.

1. "But it is the nature of man to be deceived by fancies of this sort, and it is a sign of a mind which is still weak to be so easily drawn away at the suggestion of the enemy. For he careth not whether he deceive and beguile by true means or false; whether he throw thee down by the love of the present or fear of the future. Therefore let not thy heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Believe in Me, and put thy trust in My mercy.(3) When thou thinkest thyself far removed from Me, I am often the nearer. When thou reckonest that almost all is lost, then often is greater opportunity of gain at hand. All is not lost when something goeth contrary to thy wishes. Thou oughtest not to judge according to present feeling, nor so to take or give way to any grief which befalleth thee, as if all hope of escape were taken away.

1. "Think not thyself totally abandoned, although for the time I have sent to thee some tribulation, or have even withdrawn some cherished consolation; for this is the way to the Kingdom of Heaven. And without doubt it is better for thee and for all My other servants, that ye should be proved by adversities, than that ye should have all things as ye would. I know thy hidden thoughts: and that it is very needful for thy soul’s health that sometimes thou be left without relish, lest perchance thou be lifted up by prosperity, and desirous to please thyself in that which thou art not. What I have given I am able to take away, and to restore again at My good pleasure.

1. "When I shall have given, it is Mine; when I shall have taken away, I have not taken what is thine; for every good gift and every perfect gift(4) is from me. If I shall have sent upon thee grief or any vexation, be not angry, nor let thy heart be sad; I am able quickly to lift thee up and to change every burden into joy. But I am just and greatly to be praised, when I do thus unto thee.

1. “If thou rightly consider, and look upon it with truth, thou oughtest never to be so sadly cast down because of adversity, but rather shouldst rejoice and give thanks; yea, verily to count it the highest joy that I afflict thee with sorrows and spare thee not. As My Father hath loved Me, so love I you;(5) thus have I spoken unto My beloved disciples: whom I sent forth not unto worldly joys, but to great strivings; not unto honours, but unto contempt; not unto ease, but to labours; not unto rest, but to bring forth much fruit with patience. My son, remember these words.”

Thank you Lord.

 

[christosdavid]

We were discussing this in another thread and I want to take take a poll, because I am very concerned.

In fact, my heart is aching right now, because I fear I may have misunderstood Catholicism all along. I see Catholicism as a Christian religion based on Christ’s sacrifice where, his Blessed mother is honored above all the Saints and intercedes for us.

I do not see Catholicism as a Marian religion, through whom everything passes and eventually ends up with Christ.

I am very troubled.

Please be charitable.

I voted that Mary is honoured in a supreme manner among the saints. I understand your concern, I think, that “there is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus” (The Apostle Paul)

There is no doubt that devotion to Mary has sometimes promted some extreme and even absurd claims for Mary’s place in salvation history (By Karl Rahner for eg).

Mary was prophisied by Isaiah as the virgin who conceived and in her own response of faith she made possible, in a manner of speaking, the incarnation and the means of saving the world.

Through her son, Jesus. So although Marian theology has gone several different directions as recently as Vatican II in their Dogmatic Constitution on the Church mentions explicitly that what the Church holds to concerning Mary as “Mediatrix” in no way imposes on Christ’s unique Mediatorship for our Salvation.

 

[TrueLight]

[CONTINUED FROM ABOVE]

I think you are looking at this in a too literal and black and white fashion…stop thinking in terms of “either/or”…its not the priest vs Jesus, or Mary vs Jesus. Our relationship with Jesus is made possible through Mary, and her constant intercession empowers and strengthens our prayers to Jesus, but that doesn’t mean that we don’t also address the Lord and interact with the Lord directly - just as the necessary role of the priest in Holy Communion doesn’t interfere, but rather enables, our encounter with Jesus.

I’ve included a previous post from another thread that I wrote on a similar topic…

TWF,

Your post was so very helpful and beautifully explained. Thank you so much.

I think a lot of my angst comes from the fact that I am receiving different answers. I know this is a forum. I also receive different answers from Catholics I know in real life. Some say that I will eventually get to that place. Some say, it is required.

So I am confused as to what is personal devotion or spiritual walk and what is necessary for me to believe and what is necessary for salvation.

So far not a lot of people have responded to my post where I quoted Pope Leo and asked if this is official church teaching. I know that the Assumption is dogma. I know that I cannot be Catholic without accepting this teaching.
However, I believe this teaching on Mary as mediatrix is still in development and as someone mentioned, is not necessarily De Fide.

 

[Bluegoat]

TWF,

Your post was so very helpful and beautifully explained. Thank you so much.

I think a lot of my angst comes from the fact that I am receiving different answers. I know this is a forum. I also receive different answers from Catholics I know in real life. Some say that I will eventually get to that place. Some say, it is required.

So I am confused as to what is personal devotion or spiritual walk and what is necessary for me to believe and what is necessary for salvation.

So far not a lot of people have responded to my post where I quoted Pope Leo and asked if this is official church teaching. I know that the Assumption is dogma. I know that I cannot be Catholic without accepting this teaching.
However, I believe this teaching on Mary as mediatrix is still in development and as someone mentioned, is not necessarily De Fide.

No, it isn’t de fide. In fact, I’ve met serious Catholics who said if it was ever made such, they would leave the Catholic Church. Which is to say, it is somewhat controversial.

 

[TrueLight]

Through her son, Jesus. So although Marian theology has gone several different directions as recently as Vatican II in their Dogmatic Constitution on the Church mentions explicitly that what the Church holds to concerning Mary as “Mediatrix” in no way imposes on Christ’s unique Mediatorship for our Salvation.

I completely assent to the following. Is that enough?

I. MARY’S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH
Wholly united with her Son . . .
964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. “This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”;504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:
Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505

965 After her Son’s Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507
. . . also in her Assumption

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST

 

[TrueLight]

Continued

966 "finally the immaculate virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the lord as queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her son, the lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 the assumption of the blessed virgin is a singular participation in her son’s resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other christians:
In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your dormition you did not leave the world, o mother of god, but were joined to the source of life. You conceived the living god and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509
. . . She is our mother in the order of grace

967 by her complete adherence to the father’s will, to his son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the holy spirit, the virgin mary is the church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . Wholly unique member of the church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the church.
968 her role in relation to the church and to all humanity goes still further. "in a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "this motherhood of mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the blessed virgin is invoked in the church under the titles of advocate, helper, benefactress, and mediatrix."512

970 "mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of christ, but rather shows its power. But the blessed virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . Flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "no creature could ever be counted along with the incarnate word and redeemer; but just as the priesthood of christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of god is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

• ii. Devotion to the blessed virgin
  971 “all generations will call me blessed”: "the church’s devotion to the blessed virgin is intrinsic to christian worship."515 the church rightly honors "the blessed virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the blessed virgin has been honored with the title of ‘mother of god,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . Differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate word and equally to the father and the holy spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 the liturgical feasts dedicated to the mother of god and marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole gospel,” express this devotion to the virgin mary.517

iii. Mary - eschatological icon of the church
972 after speaking of the church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to mary. In her we contemplate what the church already is in her mystery on her own “pilgrimage of faith,” and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, “in the glory of the most holy and undivided trinity,” "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the church is awaited by the one she venerates as mother of her lord and as her own mother.
In the meantime the mother of jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim people of god.519

in brief
973 by pronouncing her “fiat” at the annunciation and giving her consent to the incarnation, mary was already collaborating with the whole work her son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is savior and head of the mystical body.

974 the most blessed virgin mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her son’s resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his body.

975 “we believe that the holy mother of god, the new eve, mother of the church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of christ” (paul vi, cpg § 15).

 

[Alexander_Roman]

As an Eastern Catholic, when I went to Latin Catholic high school, I saw there was some serious differences in approach to our Lady and the Saints.

In fact, today I will say that Roman Catholic theology of the veneration of the Saints and why we do is underdeveloped.

For the Christian East, there is an emphasis on Theosis, our divinization/deification in Christ, the God-Man through the Holy Spirit. We become partakers in the life of the Holy Trinity which transforms us. God truly does “deify” us in Christ through ceaseless prayer, the constant reception of the Sacraments and the other elements of the life of the Church.

Iconography symbolizes this transformation in Christ and Christ truly does live in us with the Father and the Spirit as God’s Temple.

This is why, in the East, services to the Saints are truly Divine Services. We pray to Christ Who lives in His Saints and especially in His Most Holy Mother, the pinnacle of holiness.

The Saints do not take us away from God at all. Christ Himself took on our nature to save it and deify it so that we may all become deified in the Son of God. We are saved not by going to the invisible God alone - but by going to the visible God-Man. The Christian experience of Incarnational salvation is extended throughout. We are saved by Christ but through His Body which is the Church and via the Communion of Saints. We are all called to become “mediators” in Christ.

Is Mary Co-Redemptrix? Of course she is! We too are called to follow in that role.

After my negative experiences in a Latin Catholic college, I can only say that I’m staying clear of contemporary RC theology and especially theology pertaining to the saints and sanctification.

For me, it smacks of Protestantism, plain and simple. If there are Catholics who way they would leave the Church re: the Co-Redemptrix issue - they are theologically and most probably already half-way out of the Church now.

Alex

 

[PiousTemplar]

We were discussing this in another thread and I want to take take a poll, because I am very concerned.

In fact, my heart is aching right now, because I fear I may have misunderstood Catholicism all along. I see Catholicism as a Christian religion based on Christ’s sacrifice where, his Blessed mother is honored above all the Saints and intercedes for us.

I do not see Catholicism as a Marian religion, through whom everything passes and eventually ends up with Christ.

I am very troubled.

Please be charitable.

I think you are overreacting. I asked the same question a few months ago. Here is link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=535509

 

[twf]

As an Eastern Catholic, when I went to Latin Catholic high school, I saw there was some serious differences in approach to our Lady and the Saints.

In fact, today I will say that Roman Catholic theology of the veneration of the Saints and why we do is underdeveloped.

For the Christian East, there is an emphasis on Theosis, our divinization/deification in Christ, the God-Man through the Holy Spirit. We become partakers in the life of the Holy Trinity which transforms us. God truly does “deify” us in Christ through ceaseless prayer, the constant reception of the Sacraments and the other elements of the life of the Church.

Iconography symbolizes this transformation in Christ and Christ truly does live in us with the Father and the Spirit as God’s Temple.

This is why, in the East, services to the Saints are truly Divine Services. We pray to Christ Who lives in His Saints and especially in His Most Holy Mother, the pinnacle of holiness.

The Saints do not take us away from God at all. Christ Himself took on our nature to save it and deify it so that we may all become deified in the Son of God. We are saved not by going to the invisible God alone - but by going to the visible God-Man. The Christian experience of Incarnational salvation is extended throughout. We are saved by Christ but through His Body which is the Church and via the Communion of Saints. We are all called to become “mediators” in Christ.

Is Mary Co-Redemptrix? Of course she is! We too are called to follow in that role.

After my negative experiences in a Latin Catholic college, I can only say that I’m staying clear of contemporary RC theology and especially theology pertaining to the saints and sanctification.

For me, it smacks of Protestantism, plain and simple. If there are Catholics who way they would leave the Church re: the Co-Redemptrix issue - they are theologically and most probably already half-way out of the Church now.

Alex

Alexander - while I agree that many contemporary Latin Catholics are sadly misinformed, and often heavily influenced by Protestant heresies, it must be noted that the authentic Latin tradition, from the divine office to the mass to the writings of the saints and doctors, includes a very well developed understanding of deificatin/theosis. Please see my earlier posts in this thread where I discuss this point…