All have sinned.. including Mary.

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Rolltide said:
Thank goodness you didn’t say “War Eagle” or we’d have to open up a whole new thread on a completely DIFFERENT type of doctrine! LOL! 😛
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I can’t believe you even uttered the letters via text form that refer to that awful, blasphemous, depraved University that opposes all that is Crimson and Tide! :eek:
 
believers said:
Nothing in the Bible about that.
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You don’t believe God know you before you were even born?

“Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I haw appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5).
 
Cleopas said:
I answered that (in part at least) in other portions of my reply you quoted.

The womb of Mary was simply a biological place for the production of the body Jesus took on himself. As such it was amoral. Her being born in sin and guilty personally of sin has no affect or effect on the function of her womb in the conception and birth of Christ. It is the fact that God is His Father that makes Christ’s conception without blemish or the stain of Adam’s transgression.
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You didn’t answer my question, in fact you just said it doesn’t matter if she was sinless or not. So i really want to know why you think she had to have sinned. And for the 28th time “all” in Greek doesn’t not mean “all” in English, so that arugment is moot.
 
water said:
You don’t believe God know you before you were even born?

“Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I haw appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5).
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I never said that. It’s the Mary was saved before she was born part that you simply made up.
 
believers said:
Anyway… Mary was blessed but she can’t save you. She can’t do anything for you. It’s all about Jesus. He died for you.
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First of all, nobody ever said that Mary can save us.

Something that I’ve noticed about many Protestants - so many seem to think that because Catholics honor Mary more than we honor any other purely human being, and because we believe that she was given graces that no other purely human being has been given before, we automatically are placing her on the same plane with the same powers as Christ. Not so. It is all about Jesus. And Mary can do something for us. She can pray for us. That is exactly what we ask her to do for us. She doesn’t work through her own power, she works through her Son’s. So you’re right - it IS all about Jesus.
 
Goth_Catholic said:
You didn’t answer my question, in fact you just said it doesn’t matter if she was sinless or not. So i really want to know why you think she had to have sinned. And for the 28th time “all” in Greek doesn’t not mean “all” in English, so that arugment is moot.
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She was guilty of sin because Adam sinned.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
 
believers said:
I never said that. It’s the Mary was saved before she was born part that you simply made up.
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Are you doubting the power of God then?
Could He only do what is written in the Bible? 😉 How limited would God be!
 
Originally Posted by **believers **
*As I stated… it’s not in the Bible.

You have interpreted “Full of Grace” (which my Bible says “highly favoured”) to mean free from sin. That definitely not in the Bible.

My Bible also says in Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Grace came by Jesus NOT Mary.*

**To be “full (or filled) with grace” is to have the absence of sin. The two cannot co-exist.

You say the same thing the Church teaches: grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. It was the salvific work of Christ which saved his mother Mary - the same thing baptism and grace does for us - cleanses us from our sins, washes us clean from the stain of original sin, and sets us on the road to salvation. The Church does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that grace comes through Mary. Anything through Mary originates in Christ.**
 
water said:
Before Mary was born, God knew Her. She saved Her before any sins could touch Her.
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With all due respect, and with no personal malice intended – this is utter non-sense. It’s the essential equivalent of determinism, and reeks of Calvinistic theology on predestination, even if singularly applied toward Mary.

IF she had not sinned or even been touched by sin then she needed not to be SAVED from anything. She then becomes self sufficient of our own inherent (that is, self) righteousness before God. As such she would invalidates the whole purpose for the incarnation and the virgin birth.

No Mary was not saved before she sinned, as that would be no salvation at all. She was saved because she, like all of us born of Adam, was a sinner and needed the sinlessness of Christ to atone and be the premise for her reconciliation with God.
 
believers said:
She was guilty of sin because Adam sinned.

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
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No, she was saved from the sin of Adam, because she became the new Eve. Eve sinned first. Mary in turn became the New Eve by first undoing the sin of Eve to make way for Jesus, as the new Adam, to abolish the sin of Adam.
 
Cleopas said:
With all due respect, and with no personal malice intended – this is utter non-sense. It’s the essential equivalent of determinism, and reeks of Calvinistic theology on predestination, even if singularly applied toward Mary.

IF she had not sinned or even been touched by sin then she needed not to be SAVED from anything. She then becomes self sufficient of our own inherent (that is, self) righteousness before God. As such she would invalidates the whole purpose for the incarnation and the virgin birth.

No Mary was not saved before she sinned, as that would be no salvation at all. She was saved because she, like all of us born of Adam, was a sinner and needed the sinlessness of Christ to atone and be the premise for her reconciliation with God.
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One should not limit how God saves Her.
I just gave the example of 2 men …from previous posts.
 
Ok, folks. That’s it for me. Time to pray the Rosary.
Have a good night.
 
We know. We know this A LOT. But we also love His (thereby our) Mother, very much.
believers said:
Anyway… Mary was blessed but she can’t save you. She can’t do anything for you. It’s all about Jesus. He died for you.
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believers said:
Roman Catholics… Why don’t you believe ALL (including Mary) have sinned? God said it… shouldn’t that be final? Rom 3:23
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Oh, I don’t know…no reason…we like to make stuff up. But the answer is probably the same reason that when Paul told those SAME Romans “you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge” (Rm 15:14) that you don’t believe the Romans knew EVERYTHING. Or do you? :eek:
 
Rolltide said:
Show me an altar call in the Bible.

Actually, for that matter, show me the specific word “Trinity” in the Bible…

Who compiled the Bible, btw?
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Altar calls are simply call for people to Accept the gift of salvation through faith in the Jesus. They don’t have to come to the front. They can receive Jesus any where. If they call on Him.

Trinity is term used to denote the Godhead as 3 in 1. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

Who compiled the Bible? The early Christians. The Romans got a hold of the scrolls came up with a table of contents and declared they were the ones that compiled the bible. ( The last line is only a guess)
 
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