All or nothing?

[TheRealJuliane]

Adding onto this context, especially in today’s society where we don’t have the umbrella of the church and form to solidify a dedication between two people that become physically involved. To in the context of being souly dedicated to each other, even outside of the formal context of marriage, to enter into it and remain monogamous, even if the initial bond and union were not on the complete formal up and up, to continue to remain chaste to each other, and not play the proverbial field. How entering into a physical relationship holds a great deal more bearing and not at all to be taken lightly. How having multiple partners is NOT beneficial what so ever, instead of what the world teaches, which insists upon turning it into a game, trying out many partners before settling with one. Backing up into earlier biblical context, there was not so much fanfare on a marriage, to the point, where once physical intimacy is initiated, the couple are joined for life.

Comes down to one simple statement:

Sex is sacred.

 

[portarica]

How about teaching chastity comprehensively vice teaching abstinence?

Teaching the spiritual component of relationships, particularly relationships that go into the physical dimension. Teaching so that the people understand the unbreakable spiritual bonding that occurs with physical relationships so that the learners can at least mentally appreciate the importance of remaining chaste according to their state in life and so they understand the importance of abstinence outside the context of marriage and the utter importance of fidelity no matter what the state of life.

Teaching that, no matter one’s state in life, one should live that life sacrificially, rather than egocentrically
[bibledrb]Rom 12:1[/bibledrb]

Teaching only chastity is inadequate on a number of fronts.Especially outside of Catholic schools, Christian Schools or Islamic Schools .

It would be like teaching the appreciation of classical music with the expectation that kids will no longer listen to rap if they learn about the joys of Bach and Mozart.

If we want to prevent as many abortions as possible, effective education must not only reach those that are predisposed to not have abortions anyway, but must also reach those that for whatever reason are more likely to be open to abortion.

I understand the position that people are reluctant to compromise any of their principles regarding the sexual policies of the church. Best case we teach the kids everything we know and they don’t engage in sex and have no abortions. Worst case, we put blinders on them and hope that when they are exposed to something they are not prepared to handle, they make the right decision anyway.

What I don’t understand is the confidence that people have in the hope that its better off if we don’t take responsibility to teach kids about what they will eventually learn from their friends or worse .

Peace

 

[St_Francis]

To me the best way to teach children is to show them pictures of unborn children when they are young, so they have a firm grasp that an unborn child is alive and human. That should be the first part of “sex ed”: about babies. Young children love babies, and in our small-family/school world, very few children have much exposure to babies, and that is really sad.

Then, when they are old enough, teach about how babies get there. Personally, I would not teach them in the schools, but some are bound and determined to do so. But first cement in their minds about babies, not about all the fol-de-rol about two mommies or two daddies, then about how babies get there. The schools talk about sex, sex, sex, and never about babies–no wonder we are in the mess we are in, and this all started with birth control.

 

[portarica]

To me the best way to teach children is to show them pictures of unborn children when they are young, so they have a firm grasp that an unborn child is alive and human. That should be the first part of “sex ed”: about babies. Young children love babies, and in our small-family/school world, very few children have much exposure to babies, and that is really sad.

Then, when they are old enough, teach about how babies get there. Personally, I would not teach them in the schools, but some are bound and determined to do so. But first cement in their minds about babies, not about all the fol-de-rol about two mommies or two daddies, then about how babies get there. The schools talk about sex, sex, sex, and never about babies–no wonder we are in the mess we are in, and this all started with birth control.

The problem is that this is not an ideal world. If it was, the biggest problem facing the Fountain of all truth wouldn’t be a sexual problem of its own making.

The reality is that most parents are either afraid or incapable of teaching their own kids about sex and the need for respect in that arena. People are even afraid of teaching kids about bullying, what do you think is one the biggest issue regarding abortion? The inability to resist date rape , the male/ female equivalent of bullying.

The perfect solutions mentioned apply to a small part of the population and amounts , in many cases to preaching to the choir . Even in that case, you know the reputation of those girls that go to catholic school.We can’t even be too sure about the kids choir.

Peace

 

[St_Francis]

The problem is that this is not an ideal world. If it was, the biggest problem facing the Fountain of all truth wouldn’t be a sexual problem of its own making.

The reality is that most parents are either afraid or incapable of teaching their own kids about sex and the need for respect in that arena.

That some have difficulty, which they should be working on overcoming, does not mean that we need to violate the innocence of children, nor does it mean that we must teach them untruth.

People are even afraid of teaching kids about bullying,

Give me a break! What’s to fear about teaching children to behave properly? This makes no sense!

what do you think is one the biggest issue regarding abortion? The inability to resist date rape, the male/ female equivalent of bullying.

First of all, if it is indeed true that this is the biggest issue regarding abortion, for which you have provided no evidence, then what students need to learn is *not *contraception but wise behavior, like staying away from beer-keg frat parties, drug-using unsupervised parties, and wandering off to romantic dark spots with young men. In fact, I have long advocated re-thinking our society’s view of dating, which is a ridiculous institution which practically promotes abusive relationships.

But then the problem is *not *the lack of knowledge of contraception, but something else altogether.

The perfect solutions mentioned apply to a small part of the population and amounts , in many cases to preaching to the choir . Even in that case, you know the reputation of those girls that go to catholic school.We can’t even be too sure about the kids choir.

The reality is not this or that, but that too many parents are not teaching their children; they are leaving all the raising of their children up to the schools. Of course, the fact that schools are perfectly willing to take on that responsibility in so many areas has not helped at all.

For example, when I was young, teachers constantly told parents *not *to help their children with their schoolwork. This was the time of New Math, invented grammar, etc., and parents were messing up the propaganda being forced down kids’ throats.

Now schools are begging parents to come in and volunteer, because the generation which the schools insisted be ignored by their parents in the area of schoolwork, and which was told by psychologists that they would ruin by restricting their freedom, is raising a bunch of hooligans who have no self-restraint, and the schools are not allowed to make any judgements about the children so as to keep them in groups which would be more helpful to them.

I think that your concern and desire to see improvement is most laudable, but I think that you do not yet understand the true sources of these problems.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

if an abstinence educator offered to help coach you in how to talk to your kids about sex and sexuality including character and what God expects, would that be something helpful?

 

[portarica]

if an abstinence educator offered to help coach you in how to talk to your kids about sex and sexuality including character and what God expects, would that be something helpful?

And are these coaches going to coach the millions of families that need that help?

Do you think that the families that would be open to the coaching are the ones that are most in need of it?

Are these coaches going to do outreach into the areas with the highest rates of poverty and violence that also have the highest rates of abortions ? Are they going to do outreach into the areas of the bible belt that have the increasing rates of teenage pregnancy?

Great idea, the coaching thing, but how will it be practically applied to the millions that need it?

Peace

 

[portarica]

That some have difficulty, which they should be working on overcoming, does not mean that we need to violate the innocence of children, nor does it mean that we must teach them untruth.

Give me a break! What’s to fear about teaching children to behave properly? This makes no sense!

First of all, if it is indeed true that this is the biggest issue regarding abortion, for which you have provided no evidence, then what students need to learn is *not *contraception but wise behavior, like staying away from beer-keg frat parties, drug-using unsupervised parties, and wandering off to romantic dark spots with young men. In fact, I have long advocated re-thinking our society’s view of dating, which is a ridiculous institution which practically promotes abusive relationships.

But then the problem is *not *the lack of knowledge of contraception, but something else altogether.

The reality is not this or that, but that too many parents are not teaching their children; they are leaving all the raising of their children up to the schools. Of course, the fact that schools are perfectly willing to take on that responsibility in so many areas has not helped at all.

For example, when I was young, teachers constantly told parents *not *to help their children with their schoolwork. This was the time of New Math, invented grammar, etc., and parents were messing up the propaganda being forced down kids’ throats.

Now schools are begging parents to come in and volunteer, because the generation which the schools insisted be ignored by their parents in the area of schoolwork, and which was told by psychologists that they would ruin by restricting their freedom, is raising a bunch of hooligans who have no self-restraint, and the schools are not allowed to make any judgements about the children so as to keep them in groups which would be more helpful to them.

I think that your concern and desire to see improvement is most laudable, but I think that you do not yet understand the true sources of these problems.

That story about schools not wanting parents to be involved in the education of their kids is on the face of it false.

Schools may not want parents to do their kids homework, but growing up in the new math and having kids in the new math and whole language, I have never been told by a teacher to not have my parents help me and have never been told to not help my kids with their homework.

If anything is true, it is the direct opposite. Teachers clamor to have parents involved in their kid’s education. The greatest predictor of success in education is parental involvement.

Why do you think they have parents sign report cards?

If what you were saying was true and schools generally were discouraging face to face parental involvement in their kids education , I’ll eat my hat. I’d like to see a couple of cites before I do that , so help me out.

Peace

 

[St_Francis]

That story about schools not wanting parents to be involved in the education of their kids is on the face of it false.

Schools may not want parents to do their kids homework, but growing up in the new math and having kids in the new math and whole language, I have never been told by a teacher to not have my parents help me and have never been told to not help my kids with their homework.

If anything is true, it is the direct opposite. Teachers clamor to have parents involved in their kid’s education. The greatest predictor of success in education is parental involvement.

Why do you think they have parents sign report cards?

If what you were saying was true and schools generally were discouraging face to face parental involvement in their kids education , I’ll eat my hat. I’d like to see a couple of cites before I do that , so help me out.

Peace

Well, it’s pretty hard to find! Here’s the one place online I was able to find, where the mother was told not to help with homework, but I grew up hearing this from my mother, and have also read it over the years in various books, all of which gave me the impression that it was a common phenomenon.

 

[portarica]

Well, it’s pretty hard to find! Here’s the one place online I was able to find, where the mother was told not to help with homework, but I grew up hearing this from my mother, and have also read it over the years in various books, all of which gave me the impression that it was a common phenomenon.

The example you cited contradicts the conclusion you came to earlier. The example in the blog or letter was about the authors schooling in the times you said encouraged the parents to help. Your conclusions about school now were about not wanting help now.

Peace

 

[TheRealJuliane]

And are these coaches going to coach the millions of families that need that help?

Do you think that the families that would be open to the coaching are the ones that are most in need of it?

Are these coaches going to do outreach into the areas with the highest rates of poverty and violence that also have the highest rates of abortions ? Are they going to do outreach into the areas of the bible belt that have the increasing rates of teenage pregnancy?

Great idea, the coaching thing, but how will it be practically applied to the millions that need it?

Peace

Yes, to coaching the millions. Thank God for the internet.

Most families are in need of at least some coaching and advice when it comes to talking to their kids about sex and sexuality. Parents are tongue-tied, and some of us had little help ourselves and may have absorbed the cultural messages of “why don’t we do it in the road?”

The effort to get Planned Parenthood out of public schools goes hand-in-hand with this idea. Planned Parenthood pushes birth control and sexual freedom so it can assure its main business, that of abortions.

I’m not asking for more questions, I’m asking whether the people on THIS FORUM would find such a thing valuable. To have a trained abstinence educator come alongside you as you start to discuss sex with your kids, suggesting topics, etc. as well as how to open a discussion and not get freaked out or get your kids freaked out.

Obviously when our pro-abortion president was elected, the abstinence education grants went away. This kind of education is highly labor-intensive and requires expenses. So I am exploring different ways to reach more parents and more kids.

I will open a new thread about it, but if anyone wants to answer here, please do. If you think you won’t need such a service, please tell me why.

 

[portarica]

Yes, to coaching the millions. Thank God for the internet.

Most families are in need of at least some coaching and advice when it comes to talking to their kids about sex and sexuality. Parents are tongue-tied, and some of us had little help ourselves and may have absorbed the cultural messages of “why don’t we do it in the road?”

The effort to get Planned Parenthood out of public schools goes hand-in-hand with this idea. Planned Parenthood pushes birth control and sexual freedom so it can assure its main business, that of abortions.

I’m not asking for more questions, I’m asking whether the people on THIS FORUM would find such a thing valuable. To have a trained abstinence educator come alongside you as you start to discuss sex with your kids, suggesting topics, etc. as well as how to open a discussion and not get freaked out or get your kids freaked out.

Obviously when our pro-abortion president was elected, the abstinence education grants went away. This kind of education is highly labor-intensive and requires expenses. So I am exploring different ways to reach more parents and more kids.

I will open a new thread about it, but if anyone wants to answer here, please do. If you think you won’t need such a service, please tell me why.

A couple of things : the healthcare bill restored about $250,000,0000.00 for abstinence only ed.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/26/AR2010032602457.html

I agree that families do need the coaching, but if it is abstinence only it will continued to lead to unplanned pregnancies and that will lead to abortions.

What you need to do is find a way for more people to opt into the coaching than are inclined to do so now.

Absent that, it will be up to the schools to be the forum.

Peace

 

[St_Francis]

The example you cited contradicts the conclusion you came to earlier. The example in the blog or letter was about the authors schooling in the times you said encouraged the parents to help. Your conclusions about school now were about not wanting help now.

Peace

I’m sorry, I must have been unclear; I meant back then.

 

[St_Francis]

…I agree that families do need the coaching, but if it is abstinence only it will continued to lead to unplanned pregnancies and that will lead to abortions…

Here is an article which unfortunately attempts to cover a large area in a small space, but you’ll get the gist of what she is saying, which is that contraception leads to abortion, family breakdown, and a bunch of other bad stuff, as shown by secular researchers, some of whom are known to be quite liberal.

 

[Seeker2010]

The public schools should be educating children in ACADEMIC subjects, not the proper role of sexuality in human lives!

I bet you’d change your tune on this if the schools taught only Catholic morality. Too bad that’s against the law, huh?

 

[Seeker2010]

Incidentally, the bright idea of teaching kids about “safe sex” and contraception has been proven to INCREASE abortion numbers.

Really? Then why in the world have abortion rates been falling for decades?

 

[Seeker2010]

That’s a completely non sequitur argument. No condom prevents abortion!

That’s a ridiculous statement. If using a condom prevents an unwanted pregnancy that would have led to an abortion had it occurred, then it most certainly can prevent an abortion. That doesn’t require much logic.

The issue in school programs is whether it’s better to teach kids that sex at their age is a very bad idea and that abstinence is the only valid choice OR to teach them that sex is ok as long as it’s “protected”.

Or how about a middle ground, that sex at their age is indeed a bad idea, but IF you end up doing it, at the very least protect yourself. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Seeker2010]

acceptance and teaching of abc have done nothing to bring down abortion rates.*

Then what do you attribute the fact that abortions are falling to? Considering that promiscuity in general is on the rise, and abortions rates are in decline, you think it’s something other than birth control?

 

[St_Francis]

Then what do you attribute the fact that abortions are falling to? Considering that promiscuity in general is on the rise, and abortions rates are in decline, you think it’s something other than birth control?

I don’t know why abortion rates are falling; it could be any number of reasons as so many things are happening all at the same time.

I don’t know why you say promiscuity is on the rise, but if it is, it seems to be among adults, as teens are delaying having sex until they are older, if not married.

This article does not go into a lot of detail, but does point directions for connections which have been uncovered by secular researchers between contraceptive use and societal ills.

 

[Graubo3]

Really? Then why in the world have abortion rates been falling for decades?

Cite your source please. Thank you! Have a nice weekend.

Peace, Graubo